EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 272
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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DelugeSC
United States96 Posts
On June 23 2012 03:03 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: How does a 1 rax expanding terran hold a 2 base double robotics facility colossus push? At this point I usually am about to take my third, but I don't have enough gas to do quadruple viking production. Thanx in advance. If you are doing a 1 Rax FE you should be shooting for a 10 minute timing attack on the Protoss. A well-timed Colossus push hits at 12 minutes. If your timing attack doesn't do enough (unlikely, since he won't have much) then you need to get into a super defensive position with tons of bunkers and start Viking production. | ||
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DelugeSC
United States96 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
http://replayfu.com/r/8xv3Tr I mean, there's no conceivable way for Zerg not to come out super far ahead... Anyone who does this banshee stuff in TvZ, please tell me what I'm supposed to do, lol. With my old build I would have 2-3 sieged tanks by the time his push came and I'd collect my free win. But, as I've said, I feel fast tanks is worse for every other situation, so if I can make 1-1-1 work I would prefer that. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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stichtom
Italy695 Posts
Today i played a cw and i lost 1-2. I was very angry because i think i played well. I'm a diamond player, almost master (i hope  )Here are the two replays of the lost game. Could you help me with any suggestion? http://drop.sc/202470 http://drop.sc/202469 Thank you very much and sorry for my english but i'm only 16 and i'm still learning it :D | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 23 2012 03:03 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: How does a 1 rax expanding terran hold a 2 base double robotics facility colossus push? At this point I usually am about to take my third, but I don't have enough gas to do quadruple viking production. Thanx in advance. The simpler answer is: do ANY damage before 12:00. It doesn't matter if you hit the standard 10:00 CS/stim/+1 timing or the 5rax 7:00 attack or the 4rax 8:30 CS attack or whatever. The point is that if you do any damage or force the protoss to make sentries, that colossus push gets moved back from 12:00. Another thing is that instead of making more starports, you may decide to delay your 3rd a bit and go for a more marauder-heavy composition and be ultra-aggressive. Bomber tends to take this route. | ||
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broseph4
1 Post
I'm having issues ending TvT games. For example, I just finished a TvT where I went bio with a few tanks added in. I was able to get a good position on his third (denying it) and with viking support he couldn't move his tanks up. However, he had a massive siege tank count (~12), and turrets surrounding his main/natural area (so drops seemed like suicide). What is the best way to approach this situation, where I'm actively denying my opponent expansions but can't actually push into him without getting slaughtered by tanks? Eventually I started suiciding units into his tanks, and used the free supply to make a large BC fleet, pushed and won. It turned into a 50 minutes game though. Is there a better way to approach these turtled out TvT's to avoid hour long games, or is saccing the bio for BCs the best move? Thanks, | ||
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M7Jagger
Sweden237 Posts
When i was in silver, i used to do this 1base tank push with stim and it always worked, but when i god to gold it stopped working and i started going cc first and pushing around the 11 min mark instead which made my TvZ very successful until just recently with season 8 and me playing against platinum (sometimes even diamond). This push does not work anymore, my opponen just has to much stuff. So i started doing drops instead, killing workers, sniping hatcheries thinking it would put my opponent behind me and thus making him weaker in the late game. But it just doesn't seem to do anything to zerg, they still get to hive super early, I survive just barely against his initial push with broodlords but three minutes later he's back at 200/200 and now with ultras and im just at 152 supply with no marauders. I don't want to whine, but it feels as if you have to have super good engagements as Terran if you want to survive in the late game. If you lose almost your entire army, you're screwed, while Zerg just remaxes at an instant. So what should i do? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On June 23 2012 07:33 broseph4 wrote: Just started playing sc2 in the last month, currently in gold league. I'm having issues ending TvT games. For example, I just finished a TvT where I went bio with a few tanks added in. I was able to get a good position on his third (denying it) and with viking support he couldn't move his tanks up. However, he had a massive siege tank count (~12), and turrets surrounding his main/natural area (so drops seemed like suicide). What is the best way to approach this situation, where I'm actively denying my opponent expansions but can't actually push into him without getting slaughtered by tanks? Eventually I started suiciding units into his tanks, and used the free supply to make a large BC fleet, pushed and won. It turned into a 50 minutes game though. Is there a better way to approach these turtled out TvT's to avoid hour long games, or is saccing the bio for BCs the best move? Thanks, In a tank battle, vikings not only let you deny his ability to move forwards, they also let you move forwards. His tanks can't see the full distance they can shoot without an air unit to help, so you can edge your tanks forwards, and with the help of your vikings, shoot his tanks without them being able to shoot back. If he's on 2 base he won't have enough scans to fight you forever. Pick off his tanks bit by bit and move forwards. In theory, you want to do something like this: In practice, you'll have to deal with other units than just tanks, though. This is the basic concept though. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 23 2012 04:57 monkybone wrote: I'm not as highly ranked as you, but here's what I think: know that your natural is not where you will defend this attack. I think this is the most important fact. Don't build more than one depot (in front of the bunker) in the natural, and transfer scvs back to the main in good time. Use the hellions to pick off zerglings and banelings, and the banshees to pick off banelings. The first rax should be in the main ready to drop a tech lab if early (in this case, earlier) roaches are scouted. Only four hellions too, after that the factory should make a tech lab (ready to make tanks + siege when the all in is scouted), and at that point the reactor should be given to the rax, if the early roaches hadn't been scouted so that you wouldn't have made a tech lab on the rax instead. On the ramp you make several bunkers. Also, I feel you should have been adding more production facilities more quickly, as resources pile up if you don't. My source of inspiration for the FE into 1-1-1 build vs Zerg is Maru in his game vs July in the GSTL finals. I believe it's free to watch too, and as a side note I suggest that every Terran player wanting to learn FE into 1-1-1 vs Zerg should watch this game. I think in the future I will let my starport make its own techlab, and blindly make some marauders from my rax and maybe a 2nd bunker. And yeah, I should definitely just pull all my SCVs and run them around until it's over. | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
Rough BO: 10 Depot (Try to block hatch on 2 player maps with scv) 12 Rax 13 Gas 17 OC 17 Supply depot ~50 Gas and when marine im working on finishes reactor on rax ~ next 100 Gas factory When reactor finishes pump 2 marines giving me about 4 marines which then patrol for scouting overlords around 23 supply depot 24 2nd rax ~factory finishes swap build tech lab on rax when finished start marauder and stim buid tech lab on 2nd rax continue churning hellions, supply depots, and marauders until 7 marauders then pull 2/3 scvs and push. Sorry the BO isnt refined as simetimes bad mechanics screw it up a bit. However, I would say i have about a 65% winrate on it. Biggest issue is when OL sees it moving out. Any tips on the attack and if someone has an optimized BO that would be great. Thanks! Inquisitor Ps: Replays will come soon if you need them | ||
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heaven-
United States361 Posts
The problem is that protoss can be super greedy too and its nearly impossible to know they are being retarded greedy. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On June 23 2012 14:09 heaven- wrote: protoss has like 10 different 2 base all ins that they can throw at you, i have no idea how to deal with any of them. Like i scanned i saw the 7 gate all in and i put down like 5 bunkers and he still just rams thru them like it ain tno thing even tho i had scvs repairing... just sigh.. frustrating as hell. The problem is that protoss can be super greedy too and its nearly impossible to know they are being retarded greedy. then you did something really wrong. 5 bunkers with scvs repairing is pretty much unbreakable unless the toss is really far ahead. replay | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 23 2012 08:22 M7Jagger wrote: Hello, high gold Terran here, need some help in late game vs Zerg. When i was in silver, i used to do this 1base tank push with stim and it always worked, but when i god to gold it stopped working and i started going cc first and pushing around the 11 min mark instead which made my TvZ very successful until just recently with season 8 and me playing against platinum (sometimes even diamond). This push does not work anymore, my opponen just has to much stuff. So i started doing drops instead, killing workers, sniping hatcheries thinking it would put my opponent behind me and thus making him weaker in the late game. But it just doesn't seem to do anything to zerg, they still get to hive super early, I survive just barely against his initial push with broodlords but three minutes later he's back at 200/200 and now with ultras and im just at 152 supply with no marauders. I don't want to whine, but it feels as if you have to have super good engagements as Terran if you want to survive in the late game. If you lose almost your entire army, you're screwed, while Zerg just remaxes at an instant. So what should i do? The answer I'm going to give you will seem unhelpful. You need to change your understanding of the matchup. Zerg is a very different race...TvZ is radically different from TvT and TvP. In TvT and TvP, it feels like both players have a standing army, they engage, and either trade perfectly or nearly perfectly, or one person manages to overpower the other one and win the battle and subsequently the game. Zerg has a way of being difficult to deal with in that, unless you have a near-maxed army of mech or the protoss deathball, your trades will ALWAYS be even or losing. On top of that, zerg can remacro an army almost instantly while terran struggles to remake what they lost. This sounds horrible, but it really just means that the timings in TvZ are smaller, and your actions need to accelerate a lot faster than they would in TvT or TvP. For instance, when you trade a marine/tank army for a ling/bling/infestor army, you create a 26-46 second timing where the zerg is defenseless. It's very easy to lose an army and think "oh no, I need to turtle and start making another army", but you should actually be thinking "I have to do damage right now". When you snipe a hatchery or a spawning pool or something, you have only that build time to make a trade happen. When you trade, you can exploit that 26-46 second window even more. In addition, you have to understand that even though zerg can roll over a marine/tank army, it actually needs tons of units and resources to do so. When your armies are engaging is the perfect time for a drop; zerg can't be defending it and won't be able to for another 26-46 seconds. Essentially, you have to have a core army while hitting everywhere at once with macro pushes and drops. The timing pushes you're used to winning with are no longer viable, even in top Korean games. The reason 2-base attacks were working were because the zergs were doing 2-base strategies. 3-base strategies will kill any fast marine/tank pushes outright unless your opponent is just bad. For you I would suggest opening mass hellions into mech or getting 3 orbitals really fast and trying to push only once you've secured 3 bases. I'm in diamond, and it's difficult to answer this without going into too much high-level analysis or asking you to do something beyond your ability. But I hope this helps nonetheless! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 22 2012 20:11 SgtSlick wrote: Yes I don't know how to beat this either Snowbear. Mid masters here, last game I had 12 tanks around the high ground between my natural and 3rd, 4 bunkers and nearly a 200/200 army, including some banshees. He had purely baneling ultra pretty much with some lings and infestor sprinkled in and I died so fast it was ridiculous. Frankly I think tanks are just bad vs ultras. Seems totally unfair. Tips? When the hive tech goes up, you should pretty much abandon tank production for thors. Thors act mostly like tanks for sniping infestors/killing ultras/absorbing damage, but better. They're a kind of tier 2.5 unit, much like ultras. In addition, they're better for dealing with BLords as well. With thors focusing down ultras and a good bio spread cleaning up the zergling/banelings, you should come out fairly even. But honestly, zerg should win every direct engagement against anything but 200/200 mech; that's how the game is balanced. I tend to get 1-2 additional factories moving into lategame when he has hivetech in order to effectively tech switch to thors. One hole in this theory is that neural parasite can be really dangerous switching from tanks to pure thor. I haven't done a lot of research on this, but maybe just focusing down the NPing infestors with the closest units may work. That or add in 2-3 tanks in your army mix to make sure you can focus the infestors. edit: or the banshees you were talking about. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
1. All zergs go 100 gas to get speed ling right? After that, normally, do they stop mining gas? If they keep mining gas even after 100 gas, can I be sure a blinlg bust is going to happen? 2. Connected to number one. How do I know/around what time do they normally research speedling? 3. Lastly, will they take 2 gas or even 3? Remember this is a 2 base bust. Thank you ! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 23 2012 15:10 dynwar7 wrote: Could someone help me identify the signs of a 2 base baneling bust? Firstly: 1. All zergs go 100 gas to get speed ling right? After that, normally, do they stop mining gas? If they keep mining gas even after 100 gas, can I be sure a blinlg bust is going to happen? 2. Connected to number one. How do I know/around what time do they normally research speedling? 3. Lastly, will they take 2 gas or even 3? Remember this is a 2 base bust. Thank you ! Baneling bust is a 2-base strategy based on a delayed second gas. It's impossible to say what's coming based on the gas, except to say that if he pulls stuff off gas, he's probably going for a faster 3rd and you don't have to worry about pressure. 3 staying on gas can indicate a baneling bust, a roach/bane allin, a roach (3base)expand, or just 2-base mutas. Zergling speed will come out approximately 3 minutes after the first gas geyser goes up and will also be the earliest you have to worry about a baneling bust. (3 minutes = 30sGas, 60sMining, 110sResearch). Therefore, if you see a geyser up at 3:30, you know you need to worry about spotting for mass lings by 6:30. As a side note: this 3-minute timing will also allow you to pick a timing for marine pressure if you have that worked into your build. If there is no gas until 5:00, you can attack at 7:30-8:00 and know he can't have speedlings. Hope this helps! | ||
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heaven-
United States361 Posts
On June 23 2012 14:16 Chaggi wrote: then you did something really wrong. 5 bunkers with scvs repairing is pretty much unbreakable unless the toss is really far ahead. replay How do I get a replay to u | ||
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