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On June 24 2012 05:35 Arkani wrote: i hit mid diamond on eu now and feel the need to learn at least one bo per matchup, so im interested in what bo's do you guys prefer? i would like heavy agression builds (learning to controll units better) or macro oriented builds, any recommendations? im not really an all in/cheeser
tvp standard 1rax expo into 3rax medivacs + ups is my go-to thing atm, but would like other options too
tvz some bansheeplay or something? helion expand seems pretty bad since queen buff. is there a macro hellion marauder (+banshee) bo out there to lern from? or other ideas
tvt mech bo? never really played mech seriously, dont really like the slow style (yet) but i would like to give it a shot if someone has a nice bo
For TvT you can use a 1 rax expand into double gas into tanks and siege. However, this is extremely vulnerable to any type of 1:1:1 drop play, like hellion elevator. From there you can go mech easily. Or you can expand off of cloaked banshee into mech.
On June 24 2012 10:56 fadmizf wrote: In TvZ, I normally go for the DeMuslim/Taeja build. can be found here on TL by searching it
10 depot 12 rax 15 depot to like 10% -> halt and scout (rax scv finishes) Or anytime before to deny scout, doesn't change the BO at all. 16 gas 17 marine 17 OC 21 CC at natural (once OC is done, make an SCV and rally it to natural 400 minerals once it gets there) 23 factory 24 depot (start wall off) 25 rax 25 rax
Go with constant scv production and 4 marines -> reactor. Keep scouting SCV alive. Check gas, and pool timing, then go to natural to scout for a spine if they make it. If they make a spine, move out with 3 marines to pressure with 3 marine 1 scv. If no spine, go on 4 marines 1 scv. Kite lings (they're slow) and snipe any OLs you can. Spines are my priority, as they die very fast to 4 marines 1 scv. With decent control, you can get 1-2 drones, 3-4 lings, maybe a queen if they're sloppy, or maybe an OL.
Once the 2/3 rax are done, one gets a tech lab other starts marines. Once tech lab is about 50-75% done, start ebay at wall of. Depot well before you need them to not be blocked.
Constant hellions to keep map control, and constant marines to bolster your army. Start stim once tech lab is done, and +1 likewise with the ebay. After about 15-20 seconds of starting plus 1, start 2nd tech lab, and CS once it's done.
Move out a bit before stim cs and +1 finish to establish map control if it's 'safe'. Most zergs now a days go multiple queens, and a faster third. This push shits on those 3rds, as stim/cs/+1 marines with hellion support rolllllllll zerg units early. I personally delay the push by a bit, and make 3-4 marauders to pick off queens, and spines faster.
Once +1 is done, start +1 armor. When +1 armor is 70% start a 2nd ebay, and an armory.
Start 3rd cc 70-80 supply, in that range.
From there, get 2nd and 3rd gas, 2 more rax, starport, and 2nd factory. If they go ling infestor -> 2 factories start hellions constant with blue flame started. I have 5 rax, 2 tech lab, 3 reactor, 6 marine/2 marauder/2 hellion cycles. With this composition, you can be out on the map sniping lings and forcing more lings = less drones.
Once they establish a bit of order, tech lab 2nd factory, and get double factory siege tank production as you continue 5 rax, 2 fac, 1 port production.
You're set up for awesome 3 base production, fast upgrades, and constant pressure with still solid macro and an early third. Drops around 9-10 min.
The last part is just a transition I use sometimes. Lately, I drop 2 gasses as I push, get a starport, land fac on tech lab, drop 2 more raxes, and land the rax that was on a tech lab with a reactor. After 3rd CC starts, start 2nd fac, armory, and 2nd ebay. http://drop.sc/181273 vs Zilea 1326 pts last season http://drop.sc/181272 vs keyduNreal 1214 pts last season http://drop.sc/203728 vs jerm 1242 pts last season http://drop.sc/188397 vs bobbylight 1048 last season http://drop.sc/203727 vs Psilon 800 pts this season -- 1326 pts last season http://drop.sc/193368 vs oGsLure 1386 pts last season http://drop.sc/203726 vs exioNNezi 1254 pts last season http://drop.sc/199191 vs SCSPandain 763pts this season -- 1237 pts last season
That should be a good sample size and amount of examples to show the build. I always get marauders now, and always scout for a fast third and move out early if they have it, and do constant pressure and go hard on that stim push.
Moderately new Terran here. I don't think I have any idea what I'm doing. The only thing that got me to plat is my macro.
What are solid openers for each race? I feel like I only win if my opponent makes a mistake, and there are massive holes in my build order. I just kinda build whatever, whenever.
Also, what's standard buidlings/base? Like, how many rax, factories, and starports should I have per base? What are good times to take a third?
Basically just the fundamentals. I can execute builds orders and follow instructions, I just need them given to me. (been playing Z since release, want to switch to Terran as I think they're more fun in general)
Build marines ? ... or tanks ..... if you lost build more turrets and repair them .... I think i missed this topic thread cause i am confused (i thought this was the zerg chan... But i think i got lost) Dont shoot me
I am a diamond Terran struggling with T v P. Bombers 1 rax fe/ or standard 1 rax into 3 rax opener is my current to go build with T v P. So far, I have only been able to win games where: 1) I tranisition into 5 rax pressure and punish 1 gate fes and nexus firsts 2) Protoss holds 10.30 pressure poorly
I ran into a masters protoss in a custom game and this is what happened. 1) I decided to drop inside of attack directly at 10-11min cus of the 1/2 colos that were out - should I have checked the third? 2) Undoubtly I was behind in upgrades, Standard +1 attack vs double forges, but my army was +-10 supply during engagements 3) Poor viking control? I had 12 vikings but were unable to kill off colos. 4) Attacking into heavily cannoned bases in the mid-late game.
Well, in TvP its mainly important to use atleast 3 diffrent army hotkeys... 1 for MMM 2 for Ghosts 3 for Vikings
The bomber is a very solid build for TvP, safe and strong, however, sacrificing a min or more from the midgame power of fast medivacs for terran, for having a very solid and strong 13+ min strong position in the game.
Some terran (Like me, would have prefer the more traditional double gas after 3 rax), because it gives u alot more of aggresiveness on the 10-13 min of the game, and these 3 minutes, are mostly what gonna shape up all the game from a terran point of view.
1 -2 . Droping vs colos opening is what u should really be looking for, however ,he cant really be ahead of you in upgrades if he opened with colos, unless it was some kind of a really greedy collosus openings, which u should be able to punish with a 10 min push. he must have 0 sentires and very few stalkers, if he actually managed to get double forge running with his colos opening, so the solution must be a strong droping action, with a nonstop production of vikings in the background.
Eventually, with a good harras, u'll be ablt to A move him with 6-8 vikings couple of minutes later.
3. Considering u do use the hotkeys i stated, u must be scanning before every engagement, to watch for his anti-air counter and decide if u can just A move the vikings and go kill him afterwards, or try to kill him with kiting with vikings. There are many cases, where u'll find prottos (especially in the cases, where he open colos double forge) with a collosus army w/o anti air defence - Abuse it!
4. Cannons shouldnt really be a real issue on the mid-lategame, but ofcourse that u gotta choose your engements wiseley - Anyway, u can always try and mix 1 nuke with ur army, to force an engaments while your army is well spreadout with good concave, while your nuke is right on all of his cannons.
@8:30 not watching the minimap and you lose a bunch of marines at the tower. Ideally get good at watching the amp, if not only leave 1 marine there so you don't mind it dying.
@11:00 You drop his main, quite frankly his front was wide open, always have a look because you never know.
@13:00 Try to leave room to retreat, don't put yourself in a corner when you only have 1 medivac to escape with.
@15:30 The big battle, not really sure how it went that bad. Some of your micro I think is counter productive, again avoid getting into situations where you cannot retreat.
Generally I think you were really lucky, you let protoss play exactly how you wanted and yet you still had chances to win. Against a good protoss you'd have died even without those mistakes.
You either need to be able to punish protoss earlier, or if not then tech harder. I think you could have got your gasses quicker and thus had better upgrades and a faster starport.
Regarding TvP Bomber 5 racks. If you see collossus, lift one of your reactor racks, build a starport where it was located and build a new reactor with your barracks. If you feel that he has good amount of Stalkers to stop any drops, then just delay his third since your third is already on its way (If you follow the build correctly). Your third will be up before his is even started.
Remember to scan for techswitch. If you notice that his collossus count is not growing, add Ghost Academy quickly and get some ghosts and stop viking production.
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By the way, how is the QXC bunker going for you guys? I only do it when I see no gas opening, because he probably wants to go mass queens into fast expansions. And the bunker stops all creep spread and stop him from taking a third.
This usually force them into 2 base lair tech, or 2 base all in with huge amount of zerglings. There has been a couple of times when the Zerg rush out of his base to kill the bunker with an enormous amount of lings and head for my base. I have not played around with this bunker enough, but sometimes his lings do some good damage combined with a baneling bust. Sometimes I have 2 tanks up and hold any bust.
Please tell me what you think of this bunker, how does it work for you, does it force your zerg opponents into mass aggression? If it does, how do you prepare for it? Is it enough to switch into tank production after 4 hellions or do you build a couple of bunkers in base?
Hello I am a master terran player from the EU. I started with bronze, I always tried to work on my mechanics, so virtually always played macro builds. But now I am looking for a very aggressive builds, especially TvP and TvZ, but TvT also.
Could you recommend any? They may even be all in, but I would like to be tested at the level of master.
Thanks for the inputs! I will try to improve on my play. I think overstimming and (fail) shutter micro can hurt a mmm's ball dps (at least in my case?) How should I pressure with my 2 medivacs if Protoss went for HT + Charge instead? It usually goes two ways if I decide to commit to a drop or head on attack at the nat: 1) Medivacs get FBed en route into the main 2) HT has storm by that time and I lose my entire army with my low level micro
What's the proper way to micro vs storm? Seems like all the protoss need to do is find one or two good chucks of army to kill off an there's nothing I can do
On June 24 2012 22:29 halpimcat wrote: What's the proper way to micro vs storm? Seems like all the protoss need to do is find one or two good chucks of army to kill off an there's nothing I can do
First of all you want to fight where you have as much space as possible and you already want to have some kind of split before you engage, so that your army isn´t clumbed up. Aggainst storms you just need to select the units beeing stormed and move them out of the storm as fast as possible. It isn´t really hard micro but you need to be fast, because the longer your units are in the storm the more damage they get. It´s somewhat similar to Marine splitting aggainst Zerg. Just box your units manually and move them with a move command out of storm range. Good luck.
On June 24 2012 22:29 halpimcat wrote: What's the proper way to micro vs storm? Seems like all the protoss need to do is find one or two good chucks of army to kill off an there's nothing I can do
First of all you want to fight where you have as much space as possible and you already want to have some kind of split before you engage, so that your army isn´t clumbed up. Aggainst storms you just need to select the units beeing stormed and move them out of the storm as fast as possible. It isn´t really hard micro but you need to be fast, because the longer your units are in the storm the more damage they get. It´s somewhat similar to Marine splitting aggainst Zerg. Just box your units manually and move them with a move command out of storm range. Good luck.
to add on this, be mindful of if you're stimmed already or not. I've done and seen lots of people stim to get out of storm, when they've stimmed already. No reason to take more damage.
Any videos or replays of people splitting somewhat decently vs storms? If I knew what it looked like I think I could successfully replicate it. As of now I'm splitting as if I were microing vs banelings, but since storm instant I'm still eating it hard.
On June 24 2012 23:51 halpimcat wrote: Any videos or replays of people splitting somewhat decently vs storms? If I knew what it looked like I think I could successfully replicate it. As of now I'm splitting as if I were microing vs banelings, but since storm instant I'm still eating it hard.
Here is a awesome storm dodging action from dragon:
On June 24 2012 23:51 halpimcat wrote: Any videos or replays of people splitting somewhat decently vs storms? If I knew what it looked like I think I could successfully replicate it. As of now I'm splitting as if I were microing vs banelings, but since storm instant I'm still eating it hard.
Here is a awesome storm dodging action from dragon:
So is this the kind of stuff I'm supposed to do to beat storm? I'll give it a try. (Obviously I'll work ghosts in when I can, but I want to be able to engage with pure mmm in the midgame with confidence. Not wait for ghosts as soon as I see high templar even when I'm 30 supply ahead.)
On TVT I usually am first to seige up outside his base, but then I still lose because I can't break his line and get frustrated and move all my forces in and lose them. What should I do after I have set up outside his base?
EPT
