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On April 14 2012 01:09 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 03:07 Sergio1992 wrote:Well I came here because I need help against protoss race Today I was all-ined. I must admit that I do not fear a macro game against protoss, I fear more their all-ins, because they can throw at you so many Anyway I opened 1 rax fe into three rax. Not much to be said, I just needed one more bunker and I would have been fine. Am I wrong? The problem anyway is another I scouted that he had only thee gates and two gas.. Now question: Protoss can throw you a lot of variations for their allin , and this time it was immortals. But how do I know it? It seems to me that I must play in the dark. For example, it could have been dt expand, warp prism 4 gate robo, void ray all in, blink allin, how do I identify what is protoss throwing at me? Do I just blindly counter everything? But blindly countering everything seems to be impossible. For example, while you can beat three gate rays with pure marine, you cannot beat blink stalkers unless you got marauders with concussive shells On this game I took two gas but didn't use them on this game, because I didn't know what was going on. I felt weird, because actually I don't know how to scout a protoss correctly (or at least I was able to when I was on diamond league, because people are not so creative... I get people getting two gas but not using one, people making nexus and then destroying it to 4 gate all-in, and so on...) Thanks for help http://drop.sc/158492 You could make a habit of trying to prevent proxy pylons by killing the probe and the possible other probe that follows it, but other than that I have no idea what could help you.
Im pretty sure a scan around 5:30? or 6 minute mark will tell you if hes going robo or not, and also what hes doing with that gas. If you still cant see shit and want to to be able to hold off any rush, save the 1 base collosus, open 1 rax FE into 4 rax,
get ~2 bunkers at the front, leave a couple scvs in FRONT (so its marines - bunkers - scvs - protoss army) of the bunkers with auto repair, and the rest in your base to snipe any warp prism play. Also, fight for map control. Decent marine micro can easily fend off a zealot - stalker (or 1 zealot 2 stalker) and let you maintain certain map control so you know what is coming and when. You can say a stalker can out-micro marines, but if a protoss is spending that much time microing his stalker then hes probably not managing his base...terrans can just use hotkeys, protsses have to chrono and warp in.
Its probably the safest opener against protoss cheese, and allows you to push early with 16 marines if the protoss is also 1 gate FE
EDIT - Just watched the replay - Its shakuras plateu. that spot is THE most used place for ANY proxy, protoss or terran, run your marine there next time  , also, you were greedy. Since you saw no FE, 3 gate and 2 gas, this should be a key sign that its a rush, and you should definetely leave scvs in front of the bunkers. Also, learn the fact that very early on when you have ~5 marines - you are the king of the map - Take the map instead of playing passively. This is also true against zergies - You'll be surprised how easy it is to snipe overlords with the initial marine. Start practicing playing more aggressively with the initial marines - itll help a lot and force the opponent to be in the dark and constantly scared, instead of allowing the guy to play at his leisure. You are a terran, you MAKE the game.
During the push some of your marines werent even shooting. This is very very very very fucking bad since you opened 3 rax before gas instead of 4 rax - you are already low on marines, and now you take more dps away? Also, you wouldve held off this build easy with focus fire and scvs in front of bunkers. Kill the GS sentry first then the immortals. Stalkers do shit dps. Also, dont be afraid to pull a lot of scvs at once - hes all ining, why do you give a fuck about econ? Hold it off asap and walla, you win.
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Hey everyone. I've recently become more interested with the 1 Rax Gasless Expand build in TvZ. The only resource I have on it is drewbie's Strategy Guide found here: http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456
In the strategy guide drewbie's 1 Rax Gasless Expand build transitions into a Blue Flame hellion opening, from there it can transition into mech or bio/tank. What I want to do is learn all the transitions available after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand. The build seems like a very nice economical build that I would like to masters.
I don't really like drewbie's style of going for a Blue Flame Hellion attack after the 1 Rax Gasless Expand. I want to learn other transitions other than this so I have a repertoir I can go to depending on what I think would work best.
My problem: I need help understanding the current standard transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ.
My questions:
1) Can anyone tell me what they think are the strongest transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand?
2) Can anyone link me to replays I can watch of progamers that are executing the 1 Rax Gasless Expand and a variety of transitions?
3) Can anyone link me to Build Orders, guides, videos, any resource at all, regarding the 1 Rax Gasless Expand.
4) Can anyone list all the possible transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand and in what situation you would use each?
5) What are your opinions on the 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ?
Essentially, I'm trying to learn the 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ, but only know drewbie's build order. I want to learn more about this build and its possible transitions. I need replays, resources, etc.
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On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
4) Can anyone list all the possible transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand and in what situation you would use each?
There are many of them. I'd say the most common is 3 rax medivacs, i. e. add 2 rax after expand, take 2 gas, Lab then Stim with first 125 gas, then Factory once you have enough resources (you may cut Marines for a slightly faster Factory, but it's risky), then Starport + Reactor on Factory, swap, push on the map when you get your 2 first Medivacs, etc. In TvP, you usually go 2 Tech Labs and 1 Reactor on the 3 rax, though you may do it the TvT way, i. e. 2 Reactors and one Tech Lab (usually with CS first in TvT, by the way). So, to sum it up a bit :
1 rax gasless FE → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play
You can add Tanks later (i. e. after Medivacs) in TvT/TvZ.
1 rax gasless FE → 4 rax
You get gas a bit later, usually pressuring your opponent with ~15 Marines.
1 rax gasless FE → 5 rax
Heavier pressure than 4 rax, gas and thus tech delayed quite a lot, so be careful.
1 rax gasless FE → CC → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play
Very economic, though of course quite vulnerable to various forms of agression; mostly used in TvP, only to be used if you're reasonably sure that your opponent is going to expand.
1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory → Starport + Tech Lab on Factory
Basically a delayed 1-1-1, can be used in TvP or TvT; most of the time, you go for a delayed Cloak Banshee, but in TvT it depends on what your opponent is up to, so you may simply go for a Tank and a Viking to defend against various forms of agression, after which you can transition to anything.
1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory then Reactor on Barracks → swap for Hellions
Mostly in TvZ, see below.
On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
5) What are your opinions on the 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ?
Seems like it's becoming the common thing among Korean Terran. Basically, they open 1 rax gasless FE, then take both gas and go for delayed Reactor Hellions, quite frequently with a Cloaked Banshee (to kill some Drones / try to deny third / force spores) and fast third follow-up, after which they transition into mech or Marine/Tanks.
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So today I played a game which made me think I will never ever get out of gold with Terran.
TvP on Cloud Kingdom, I open 2 rax to put on some pressure, move and see he has no expo, guess that he is going 3 gate robo, derp some units into forcefields, puts me behind a bit, but my expo is up slightly ahead of his. Then throughout the whole game I think I get supply blocked twice max and never float minerals apart from a few supply from max. Anyway it turns into what a standard TvP for me, with my medivac timing getting pretty shut down by two quick collosus, I drop once and do minimal damage as he has left some zealots behind and warps in stalkers. I build an extra starport and start pumping vikings. Once I have a healthy amount of vikings I go to deny his third as mine has not yet got up. However I get caught in a horrible engage and kill nothing. Even at this point I am still on even supply due to macro. After a few minor skirmishes, the inevitable maxed vs maxed deathball fight comes with him absolutely stomping me, partly due to a bad engage and partly to him having higher army supply due to less workers. Game was nice 
So wat do TL?
Replay here: http://drop.sc/159508
I also humbly submit this as an argument against JUST MACRO TO DIAMOND EZ as well :D (just a lighthearted poke at the notion not rage or anything  )
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Italy12248 Posts
Hello dear terrans
I am a protoss player, and have a friend that wants to start playing sc2 as Terran. She has asked me to coach her, and i would like to know what builds you would recommend. I think i will start with a simple 3rax allin in each matchup, then go for something else 1base for each matchup, and then for some more 2base stuff and eventually macro builds. What would you recommend? Thanks a lot!
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just start with 1 rax gasless FE, maybe reactor hellion expand for TvZ
she may lose a lot at first but it'll just help later... as long as she knows why she lost and improves her defense next time, she should improve fast
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On April 15 2012 04:38 Teoita wrote:Hello dear terrans I am a protoss player, and have a friend that wants to start playing sc2 as Terran. She has asked me to coach her, and i would like to know what builds you would recommend. I think i will start with a simple 3rax allin in each matchup, then go for something else 1base for each matchup, and then for some more 2base stuff and eventually macro builds. What would you recommend? Thanks a lot!
For the beginning i would take a middle of the road build, like 2 Rax reactor first in TvP and 12/14 Rax for TvZ with no pressure involved with an expandtion. For TvT i´m not quite sure where to start with, but a 1 1 1 into expandtion seems verry good for the beginning. Give her the hint to just macro up til 200/200 for the first matches and then attack move and be sure to tell her to build an Ebay arround 6 Minutes for detection.
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In TvZ , do pro players go for marine + tank + marauder support because of the efficiency of fungal growth with ling and baneling? Or is it because he's waiting for utralisks because it's the closest tech path to ling + infestor.
I'd like to know that so I would struggle less in TvZ when my opponent goes ling + baneling + infestor composition because it really denies me hardcore.
I deal easy with ling + baneling + mutalisks so it's not TvZ itself that is hard for me.
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I get marauders because they add beef to my army, and let me snipe expos, spines, and INFESTORS much faster. Box and stim bounce forward 4 marauders and you can 1 shot infestors. VERY nice to do when they're out too far. You can, with good control, beat ling infestor with marine marauder hellion with a few thors just for like sentinel like stance just sitting there. Either lings attack it, or run past to the infantry (real DPS) so you target fire down infestors with thors.
But, yes, if you see ling infestor and no spire before hive, you can almost be safe to assume ling infestor ultra, in which marauders just rape face.
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if you want to win as terran just mass marines
-zerg player
User was warned for this post
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On April 15 2012 09:21 CaptainKirk wrote:
if you want to win as terran just mass marines
-zerg player
Zerg help thread is that-a ways, my friend. Don't bring that whining around these parts.
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How do I tech switch to mass ghosts late game in TvZ? I know pros do it all the time, but I don't understand. By the time late game arrives my SimCity in my base is too crowded to live all my barracks and add tech labs. Does anyone know how to properly switch into mass ghosts for late game TvZ?
Also, if anyone could link me to a replay of a progamer Terran tech switching to ghosts that would be great. I have a lot of replays, but can't find any that go to late game where the Terran tech switches to ghost.
This is something that's been bothering me for awhile. I want to be able to play the TvZ late game properly and get out those mass ghosts.
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People have gone off ghosts since the snipe nerf, I wouldn't worry about it.
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On April 15 2012 19:27 Willzzz wrote:
People have gone off ghosts since the snipe nerf, I wouldn't worry about it.
Then how do Terrans fight off Ultra/Brood late game now?
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They mainly stick to tank/marine and add in a few marauders/vikings as appropriate.
It takes a bit of micro but isn't impossible.
Against broods you just abuse their mobility, avoid fighting them for a long while while attacking all over the map. build up a nice viking count and spread them out to avoid fungals.
Marine/tank does pretty well against ultras anyway, do a bit of stutter step and try to avoid fungals.
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On April 15 2012 19:29 Hexadecimal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 19:27 Willzzz wrote:
People have gone off ghosts since the snipe nerf, I wouldn't worry about it. Then how do Terrans fight off Ultra/Brood late game now?
MMM and kiting against ultras, against broodlords spread your vikings maybe get few ravens for PDD to counter corruptors or use some HSM against stacked broodlords and corruptors.
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On April 15 2012 19:22 Hexadecimal wrote:
How do I tech switch to mass ghosts late game in TvZ? I know pros do it all the time, but I don't understand. By the time late game arrives my SimCity in my base is too crowded to live all my barracks and add tech labs. Does anyone know how to properly switch into mass ghosts for late game TvZ?
Also, if anyone could link me to a replay of a progamer Terran tech switching to ghosts that would be great. I have a lot of replays, but can't find any that go to late game where the Terran tech switches to ghost.
This is something that's been bothering me for awhile. I want to be able to play the TvZ late game properly and get out those mass ghosts.
No one goes mass ghosts. If anything, a handful for snipes of infestors, and nukes of expos. How do you prepare for hive tech switches? I get more rax, and more factories, and more starports. Thors do well against BL and ultra as a middle of the ground unit to have in your army (not mass, just a few). Once you decide what they're doing, just load up on marauders, or vikings..
No one goes to ghosts anymore, though. They're not worth it.
Against broods you just abuse their mobility, avoid fighting them for a long while while attacking all over the map. build up a nice viking count and spread them out to avoid fungals.
Exactly that. They BL, you doom drop. They ultra? you simcity + bunker + tanks and kite the hell out of them. Lemme see if I can find some late game TvZ reps to post as examples.
http://drop.sc/156971 33min TvZ on antiga vs keyDUnreal 1150 zerg last season
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how viable are conc shell pushes against toss these days?
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On April 14 2012 22:32 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
4) Can anyone list all the possible transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand and in what situation you would use each? There are many of them. I'd say the most common is 3 rax medivacs, i. e. add 2 rax after expand, take 2 gas, Lab then Stim with first 125 gas, then Factory once you have enough resources (you may cut Marines for a slightly faster Factory, but it's risky), then Starport + Reactor on Factory, swap, push on the map when you get your 2 first Medivacs, etc. In TvP, you usually go 2 Tech Labs and 1 Reactor on the 3 rax, though you may do it the TvT way, i. e. 2 Reactors and one Tech Lab (usually with CS first in TvT, by the way). So, to sum it up a bit : 1 rax gasless FE → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play You can add Tanks later ( i. e. after Medivacs) in TvT/TvZ. 1 rax gasless FE → 4 rax You get gas a bit later, usually pressuring your opponent with ~15 Marines. 1 rax gasless FE → 5 rax Heavier pressure than 4 rax, gas and thus tech delayed quite a lot, so be careful. 1 rax gasless FE → CC → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play Very economic, though of course quite vulnerable to various forms of agression; mostly used in TvP, only to be used if you're reasonably sure that your opponent is going to expand. 1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory → Starport + Tech Lab on Factory Basically a delayed 1-1-1, can be used in TvP or TvT; most of the time, you go for a delayed Cloak Banshee, but in TvT it depends on what your opponent is up to, so you may simply go for a Tank and a Viking to defend against various forms of agression, after which you can transition to anything. 1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory then Reactor on Barracks → swap for Hellions Mostly in TvZ, see below. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
5) What are your opinions on the 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ? Seems like it's becoming the common thing among Korean Terran. Basically, they open 1 rax gasless FE, then take both gas and go for delayed Reactor Hellions, quite frequently with a Cloaked Banshee (to kill some Drones / try to deny third / force spores) and fast third follow-up, after which they transition into mech or Marine/Tanks.
the only problem with this strategies it dies to any kind of ling bling bust / roach ling bling bust, and thats why they are kinda bad in most games.
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On April 16 2012 04:37 coldscars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 22:32 TheDwf wrote:On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
4) Can anyone list all the possible transitions after a 1 Rax Gasless Expand and in what situation you would use each? There are many of them. I'd say the most common is 3 rax medivacs, i. e. add 2 rax after expand, take 2 gas, Lab then Stim with first 125 gas, then Factory once you have enough resources (you may cut Marines for a slightly faster Factory, but it's risky), then Starport + Reactor on Factory, swap, push on the map when you get your 2 first Medivacs, etc. In TvP, you usually go 2 Tech Labs and 1 Reactor on the 3 rax, though you may do it the TvT way, i. e. 2 Reactors and one Tech Lab (usually with CS first in TvT, by the way). So, to sum it up a bit : 1 rax gasless FE → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play You can add Tanks later ( i. e. after Medivacs) in TvT/TvZ. 1 rax gasless FE → 4 rax You get gas a bit later, usually pressuring your opponent with ~15 Marines. 1 rax gasless FE → 5 rax Heavier pressure than 4 rax, gas and thus tech delayed quite a lot, so be careful. 1 rax gasless FE → CC → 3 rax → 2 gas → Stim → Factory → Starport + Reactor → Bio play Very economic, though of course quite vulnerable to various forms of agression; mostly used in TvP, only to be used if you're reasonably sure that your opponent is going to expand. 1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory → Starport + Tech Lab on Factory Basically a delayed 1-1-1, can be used in TvP or TvT; most of the time, you go for a delayed Cloak Banshee, but in TvT it depends on what your opponent is up to, so you may simply go for a Tank and a Viking to defend against various forms of agression, after which you can transition to anything. 1 rax gasless FE → 2 gas → Factory then Reactor on Barracks → swap for Hellions Mostly in TvZ, see below. On April 14 2012 21:06 Hexadecimal wrote:
5) What are your opinions on the 1 Rax Gasless Expand in TvZ? Seems like it's becoming the common thing among Korean Terran. Basically, they open 1 rax gasless FE, then take both gas and go for delayed Reactor Hellions, quite frequently with a Cloaked Banshee (to kill some Drones / try to deny third / force spores) and fast third follow-up, after which they transition into mech or Marine/Tanks. the only problem with this strategies it dies to any kind of ling bling bust / roach ling bling bust, and thats why they are kinda bad in most games.
...no it doesn't. If I can hold a roach bane bust with a triple OC build, these gasless FE's can hold as well. Bunker placement, and a wall do wonders against bling/ling and roach bane busts. It's a very common misconception. Yes, those busts are to be USED against these openings if the Z scouts and semi-allins-right. They don't always 100% beat them. And gasless FE in TvZ is, now a days in my mind, far superior to reactor FE.
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EPT
