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The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 151

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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
BlueBoxSC
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States582 Posts
February 15 2012 23:52 GMT
#3001
Okay, I'm switching to Terran because I love the race, I love the players, I love the people, and I love the style.

But I suck at it.

I generally have no idea what to do... and I read all these guides on TL.net, and I just want a general game plan for every mu.

Please, TL, save me. ;~;

Sincerely, Gold League Terran
BwCBlueBox.837
InvincibleRice
Profile Joined March 2011
United States38 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 23:53:19
February 15 2012 23:52 GMT
#3002
I'm having trouble really figuring out what I do wrong or right in my games. Win or lose, all I see is "bad macro." While I know my macro is bad, I'd really appreciate another set of eyes to tell me how to critically review my games.

First off:
http://drop.sc/112891
TvP, I 1raxFE into 2port banshees (probably a bad idea) and die to a 4gate pressure.

My perceived problems: Bad macro. I pull SCVs, but send them back right before his pressure. I don't have enough production. I should have scouted better?

Second off:
http://drop.sc/112892
TvZ, hellion expand into banshee harass into thor/hellion/tank/banshee. Opponent goes roach/ling/muta.

My perceived problems: Poor crisis management. Bad macro. Bad map awareness. Poor understanding of how to execute a hellion expand.

Thirdly:
http://drop.sc/112893
TvZ. Hellion expand into banshee harass into thor/hellion/banshee. Opponent goes roach hydra.

My perceived problems: Bad macro. Carelessness. I suck?

Again, I'd appreciate it if anyone could explain to me why exactly I lost and what I should look for when looking at my own replays. Also, be warned, I'm only diamond, so it can look pretty ugly at times.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
February 15 2012 23:59 GMT
#3003
On February 15 2012 20:23 saaaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 08:27 sAsImre wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:17 saaaa wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:04 sAsImre wrote:
On February 15 2012 01:15 saaaa wrote:
i want to focus more on 3CC builds but is it possible to hold baneling busts with this build?

i think the 3CC opening of thorzain with 16 gas is quite nice because you dont delay your first hellions so much but i dont like his follow up ^^


If we're speaking about 2base baneling bust with 30ish drones, which is an outdated build, then just having hellions/Marines and a few bunker (3-4) can hold it with proper control. You'll see it coming anyway because your hellions will notice an unusual amount of lings.

The most common all in however will be a roach/bling/ling all in which is really powerful. The main problem here is to scout it because a smart zerg will just show you a few roaches in order to deter your hellions. So getting the information can be hard. I don't know if it's possible to hold it with fast medivacs, maybe if you out-micro your opponent really hard but it's not something I'd like to rely on.
The best way to deal with this kind of all in is to get a fast tank with siege mode, a recent game between Stephano and ThorZaIN demonstrate perfectly how a single tank can help dramatically to deal with this. If you want to imitate ThorZaIN (which is a good idea :p), a build like 1rax CC, fac, CC, 4/6 hellions +2 rax, siege tank + siege mode should be safe against most of the all ins, you just need to distinguish a baneling bust, a roach ling and a roach ling bling with a few pieces of information.


in fact i can go no gas FE -> 2 gas -> reactor Hellion instead of the 16 gas Hellions?

i want to do 2 maybe 3 different styles with this 3 OC style.

1. into TMM with fast ghosts (like Bomber)
2. into Cloak Banshee into Thor+Bf hellion
3. directly into Mech

I notice that many korean pro "just" go no gas fe into reactor hellion FE and don't do the 16 gas like thorzain. And i want to figure out what is the better style ^^


I use a pretty good opening to 1rax FE into mech, shamelessly stolen from MKP:
1rax FE - double gaz - reactor hellion - second fac asap (@100 gaz after 1st fac) produce siege tank and siege mode, get an armory asap and start +1 then +2. Then you transition either into a fast 3rd CC or add 3fac. The beauty of getting an early +2 is that Thors will two shot mutas, and that allows you to all in or expand easily against someone who goes muta.

I don't really like Bomber's opening so I can't talk about it however, there is a thread in this section about it, a daya[9] daily and obviously some vods from his stream. Tho he really likes to mess around while streamzing so I'd be careful about it.

As long as cloack banshees are concerned it's basically the same thing you'd do in TvT against a 1rax FE -3rax play. You get double gas then reactor hellion and a cloack banshee. just throw down your 3rd after that, before it'd be really greedy.

The most important thing is to understand why those all ins are powerful and how your build can react to it. Then you try to balance your gas/mineral ratio according to your goal (if you go mech stockpilling gas isn't that bad for exemple).



Do you have any replays of the MKP style? i think this sounds interesting.. i normally do the mvp build with rely on thors+bf hellion in fact no gas fe -> reactor hellion fe into thor+bf hellion maybe tanks later...

I do a combination of the 3OC build of mkp, mvp and puma... it's like

no gas fe -> reactor hellion fe -> siegemode+tanks asap after 4hellions -> add 2 rax -> 2 ebays

i think you can hold any roach ling aggression with it because u will have 2-3 tanks with sigemode when it hits but i think about the thorzain 16 gas to be safe against ling bling attacks...

If you're confident in your micro ling/bling should not be a threat as long as you scout it.

There is a vod, it was the last AoL, MKP vs DRG on metropolis. I can send you my own replay if you're interested, tho it's at a way lower lvl (mid/high master)
Zest fanboy.
Ariion
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Poland50 Posts
February 16 2012 17:31 GMT
#3004
I'm looking for opening for Mech TvT.

I'm mostly interested in something like blue flame expand. Is it viable? How is countering banshees with this build (will I have starport for vikings just in time)? Is holding tank pushes early game easy or do I have to do something special?
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
February 16 2012 17:34 GMT
#3005
On February 17 2012 02:31 Ariion wrote:
I'm looking for opening for Mech TvT.

I'm mostly interested in something like blue flame expand. Is it viable? How is countering banshees with this build (will I have starport for vikings just in time)? Is holding tank pushes early game easy or do I have to do something special?

I like to go Reactor Hellion Expand (as in TvZ), add a 2nd and 3rd Factory as recourses allow and than add a 2nd and 3rd refinery. You should have 4 Tanks + siege mode out reasonably fast.
I don't know if it's a good build, it's just what works for me in Diamond.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
KenDM
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands206 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-16 18:03:58
February 16 2012 18:03 GMT
#3006
Anyone please explain to me why I lost this match. In Gods name, what did I do wrong? I had the preperations for a 4 gate up a long time before he came. I had the upgrades, I had the medivacs, I had the bunkers.


http://drop.sc/113236
kranten
Profile Joined January 2012
Netherlands236 Posts
February 16 2012 18:59 GMT
#3007
How many rax (and now many reactor/TL) do you guys get in TvP once you get 3+ bases and/or max out?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 16 2012 20:32 GMT
#3008
On February 16 2012 08:52 InvincibleRice wrote:
I'm having trouble really figuring out what I do wrong or right in my games. Win or lose, all I see is "bad macro." While I know my macro is bad, I'd really appreciate another set of eyes to tell me how to critically review my games.

First off:
http://drop.sc/112891
TvP, I 1raxFE into 2port banshees (probably a bad idea) and die to a 4gate pressure.

My perceived problems: Bad macro. I pull SCVs, but send them back right before his pressure. I don't have enough production. I should have scouted better?


Hi InvRice!

I took a look at your TvP replay for you, and created a coaching VoD:

Twitch.TV link: http://twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/308769140
Embedded Video (youtube): + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0Ou-BeDTg


Mostly Comprehensive Written Notes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Why did you lowground the CC?

2 gasses before mor rax is risky
you're cutting some marines-- also risky
you're banking resources, make more barracks

the fact that you have like 9 marines when he pressures you is the reason you lose. Teching up to banshees like that without making banshees, or tanks, or any sort of ground defense, or even having 1 rax of marine production constantly, will cause you to lose to any pressure.

you pulled scvs too early, losing critical mining time

look at gumiho vs puzzle GSl 2012 season 1 Ro8 for a better way that gets tanks to defend


Hope this helped.






On February 17 2012 03:03 KenDM wrote:
Anyone please explain to me why I lost this match. In Gods name, what did I do wrong? I had the preperations for a 4 gate up a long time before he came. I had the upgrades, I had the medivacs, I had the bunkers.


http://drop.sc/113236


Hi KenDM!

I took a look at your TvP replay for you, and created a coaching VoD:

Twitch.TV link: http://twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/308771197
Embedded Video (youtube): + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKTG0UObRQM


Mostly Comprehensive Written Notes:
+ Show Spoiler +

try not to put barracks at ramp since they impede defense
good work not attacking up his ramp
this looked like a 4gate

I would have liked to see a stimpack

get detection

move scvs to natural for both mining and repairs

try making an arc of 3 bunkers

Micro:
don't have medivacs in front
if most of your army is behind, pull back the front guys and amove the back guys

don't walk around a forcefield like that, walking will reduce your DPS

lack of stimpack also killed you

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
KenDM
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands206 Posts
February 16 2012 21:26 GMT
#3009
Thanks Blazinghand! I watched the VoD, it explained a lot to me. Stimpack. But when to decide what I want to have? For early pressure against a FE Protoss the CS should be better (also according to Day 9), but how do I scout what he's going in time for my decision of CS vs Stimpack?

Also, another long match I just had. I was in front of this guy in some aspects, behind in others. But I was leading in eco, I was also dropping him like a madman. I was splitting his attention. I also destroyed his upgrade structures so he was stuck on 1-1. I had enough vikigns for his colossi and had a lot of marauders. What could i have done? It seemed like the perfect match for me too

http://drop.sc/113353
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 16 2012 21:31 GMT
#3010
On February 17 2012 06:26 KenDM wrote:
Thanks Blazinghand! I watched the VoD, it explained a lot to me. Stimpack. But when to decide what I want to have? For early pressure against a FE Protoss the CS should be better (also according to Day 9), but how do I scout what he's going in time for my decision of CS vs Stimpack?


Shields first wasn't the problem-- after you finished shields, your tech lab was idle, and you had over 100/100 in the bank, starting at 8:15. If you started stim then, it'd have been done at 11:05, well before the final fight began.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
KenDM
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands206 Posts
February 16 2012 21:34 GMT
#3011
On February 17 2012 06:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2012 06:26 KenDM wrote:
Thanks Blazinghand! I watched the VoD, it explained a lot to me. Stimpack. But when to decide what I want to have? For early pressure against a FE Protoss the CS should be better (also according to Day 9), but how do I scout what he's going in time for my decision of CS vs Stimpack?


Shields first wasn't the problem-- after you finished shields, your tech lab was idle, and you had over 100/100 in the bank, starting at 8:15. If you started stim then, it'd have been done at 11:05, well before the final fight began.


This build relies on Stim being ready when the first two medivacs pop out (I know, it still wasn't ready then...), but do I have enough money for it though?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 16 2012 21:39 GMT
#3012
On February 17 2012 06:34 KenDM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2012 06:31 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 17 2012 06:26 KenDM wrote:
Thanks Blazinghand! I watched the VoD, it explained a lot to me. Stimpack. But when to decide what I want to have? For early pressure against a FE Protoss the CS should be better (also according to Day 9), but how do I scout what he's going in time for my decision of CS vs Stimpack?


Shields first wasn't the problem-- after you finished shields, your tech lab was idle, and you had over 100/100 in the bank, starting at 8:15. If you started stim then, it'd have been done at 11:05, well before the final fight began.


This build relies on Stim being ready when the first two medivacs pop out (I know, it still wasn't ready then...), but do I have enough money for it though?


you had over 100/100 in the bank during those three minutes.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
KenDM
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands206 Posts
February 16 2012 22:05 GMT
#3013
On February 17 2012 06:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2012 06:34 KenDM wrote:
On February 17 2012 06:31 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 17 2012 06:26 KenDM wrote:
Thanks Blazinghand! I watched the VoD, it explained a lot to me. Stimpack. But when to decide what I want to have? For early pressure against a FE Protoss the CS should be better (also according to Day 9), but how do I scout what he's going in time for my decision of CS vs Stimpack?


Shields first wasn't the problem-- after you finished shields, your tech lab was idle, and you had over 100/100 in the bank, starting at 8:15. If you started stim then, it'd have been done at 11:05, well before the final fight began.


This build relies on Stim being ready when the first two medivacs pop out (I know, it still wasn't ready then...), but do I have enough money for it though?


you had over 100/100 in the bank during those three minutes.


Cool, I'll try and focus on getting all three upgrades on time next match.

Also, Day9 explains that it's important for the opponent to see I'm 2 raxing WITH a reactor, because that way he'll make more stalkers which this build anticipates on.
Mali__Slon
Profile Joined October 2010
Senegal163 Posts
February 17 2012 00:35 GMT
#3014
I am diamond player coming from looong slump in tvt, its my absolute worst matchup. I am something like 1/10 in tvt.

What could i benefit most from is some really good build order. Often times when i hit road block (like in zvt a while ago) i try to use completely new approach and focus on it.
Andreas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway214 Posts
February 17 2012 00:48 GMT
#3015
On February 17 2012 09:35 Mali__Slon wrote:
I am diamond player coming from looong slump in tvt, its my absolute worst matchup. I am something like 1/10 in tvt.

What could i benefit most from is some really good build order. Often times when i hit road block (like in zvt a while ago) i try to use completely new approach and focus on it.

Here's a good 2-base tank marine build that will get you quite far. Practice it hard and you'll find that you'll win with it even without taking a third. Polt does this build quite often on his stream.

Open 1rax expand, add 2 more barracks and go double gas. Get combat shields and stim, get an ebay for +1 and turrets in case of banshees and add 2 reactors. Get a factory when you can, put a reactor on the factory while you build a starport, give the reactor to the starport and start a tech lab on the factory for tanks.

After 2 medivacs, lift the starport and build a barracks on the reactor. After combat shields and stim finishes, lift the barracks, build a 2nd factory on the tech lab and build a reactor with the barracks.

So in the end you'll have 4 barracks with reactors, 2 factories and 1 starport as well as 1/1 upgrades. Add an armory for more upgrades, take a third when you can afford it and add more barracks.

Keep in mind you will need to alter this build if your opponent is going mech.
Kid-Fox
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada400 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-17 00:56:26
February 17 2012 00:55 GMT
#3016
On February 17 2012 09:35 Mali__Slon wrote:
I am diamond player coming from looong slump in tvt, its my absolute worst matchup. I am something like 1/10 in tvt.

What could i benefit most from is some really good build order. Often times when i hit road block (like in zvt a while ago) i try to use completely new approach and focus on it.


There is an excellent 111 TvT build that you can find in colDrewbie's strategy guide. It's basically 111, no addons, pumping out marines hellions and a medivac. You attack with ~8marines, 3 hellions, and a single medivac, and it effectively deals with anything they send at you (unless he comes from the back with like 3 reapers and 3 hellions and a medivac).

You can transition into 1base banshees, 1base tank push, fast expand, all sorts of junk. Marine tank or Pure mech are both viable.
InvincibleRice
Profile Joined March 2011
United States38 Posts
February 17 2012 03:49 GMT
#3017
Thanks, Blazinghand
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
February 17 2012 04:09 GMT
#3018
need help with some openings and general thoughts.

How do people open against Zerg these days? I see literally every korean hellion expand. But basically you do no damage and then he makes 4 zerglings and a wall with spines and pumps 70 drones while you cant do anything about it. Then they just pump infestors and win with harassment or big fungals. It happens in literally all my tvz's. I need an opening that I can cause damage and still expand in the process (i.e not one base pushes).

I also have no idea how to deal with infestors. Tanks are ok on two player maps, because you have way less room it doesnt take you 5 hours to creep up to the base. On any 4 player map its so hard to play against infestors with tanks because by the time you tank hop up, hes got way more units and you lose your timings. Ghosts are ok with snipe, but emp never hits more than 1 or 2, but im struggling getting ghosts up without severly hurting my unit count in the early to mid game.

Any suggestions on how to open aggressively without hurting your economy to badly?
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
KenDM
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands206 Posts
February 17 2012 05:23 GMT
#3019
Would someone mind analysing this TvP replay? I was aggressive with drops, multiple drops and I even took out upgrading strcutures of the Protoss. I had more bases at the end, but I lost to his massive army anyway. Can't put my finger on it. Some objective analysis would be much appreciated.

http://drop.sc/113353
BlueBoxSC
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States582 Posts
February 17 2012 05:38 GMT
#3020
On February 16 2012 08:52 BlueBoxSC wrote:
Okay, I'm switching to Terran because I love the race, I love the players, I love the people, and I love the style.

But I suck at it.

I generally have no idea what to do... and I read all these guides on TL.net, and I just want a general game plan for every mu.

Please, TL, save me. ;~;

Sincerely, Gold League Terran



No one saw this.
BwCBlueBox.837
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