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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Why is it so easy for terran to lose to protoss?
I just recently lost a TvP to a person who's main is protoss only because he was losing and switched to dt's at the last minute (which I shouldve suspected it coming in the first place...). But aside from that, you can die simply to a couple of forcefields just because you may not be paying attention at the moment. Collosus, storm, and archons have such a large aoe the if you are ff'd into either a corner or small pocket, your entire army is done.
(BTW this is not a balance question nor is it me bitching, I just want an honest answer to an honest question)
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
That's not an honest question. It's begging the question. I will, however, provide you the answer that will increase your TvP skill the most.
You've implied that it's easy for terran to lose to protoss in the same sense that I imply you are vegetarian when I ask "so why did you decide to be a vegetarian?"
TvP is balanced. There are lots of ways for either side to lose, and they both have a variety of ways to defend and execute all-ins and take advantages and make attacks throughout the game. It is not so easy for terran to lose to protoss as you imply-- this sort of mindset holds you back as a player.
Liberate yourself from this misconception.
Think about how easy it is for you to win
Think about how you can improve as a player.
Free your mind.
:D
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On January 30 2012 18:08 AeroEffect wrote:
Why is it so easy for terran to lose to protoss?
I just recently lost a TvP to a person who's main is protoss only because he was losing and switched to dt's at the last minute (which I shouldve suspected it coming in the first place...). But aside from that, you can die simply to a couple of forcefields just because you may not be paying attention at the moment. Collosus, storm, and archons have such a large aoe the if you are ff'd into either a corner or small pocket, your entire army is done.
In TvZ, “you can die simply to a couple of Fungals just because you may not be paying attention at the moment.” And it happens far more often than in TvP, because once the first Fungal is on your troops, the whole pack will die helplessly. Not to mention that a wicked Baneling mine can simply make you lose the whole game (which, in my opinion, is actually far more retarded than Colossi / Storms / Archons).
In TvT, if you fight a mech army in a choke position, you will die as badly. Even in a Marine/Tanks mirror, fighting against a superior concave with equal army food will make you lose badly.
In short, proper position and army formation are important in all match-ups.
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On January 30 2012 17:50 saaaa wrote:i have questions that may help to improve my mechanics 1) How do i build two different buildings in the fastest way? I box my SCV at the mineral and use the 2 hotkeys to build one building but if i must build for example depot and ebay and do this process to times, because i'm not so familiar with the "esc" hotkey to go back and see on streams that some player do it so fast that i even can't see how they do it. 2) When I have to pull all my SCV's and after the engagement i want to send them back how do i do this the fastest and most efficient way? At the moment i box all scv and click one mineral patch and then i manually click 4-6 workers and send them back to the gas. I dont think that this is a good way ^^ 3) How do I spread my and siege my tanks incredible fast like some other players? At the moment i hotkeyed all my tanks at 2 and then click on every single tank with a shift command to move+siege but some players do it sooo incredible fast.^ that's it for now i guess  thx
anyone?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 30 2012 22:01 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 17:50 saaaa wrote:i have questions that may help to improve my mechanics 1) How do i build two different buildings in the fastest way? I box my SCV at the mineral and use the 2 hotkeys to build one building but if i must build for example depot and ebay and do this process to times, because i'm not so familiar with the "esc" hotkey to go back and see on streams that some player do it so fast that i even can't see how they do it. 2) When I have to pull all my SCV's and after the engagement i want to send them back how do i do this the fastest and most efficient way? At the moment i box all scv and click one mineral patch and then i manually click 4-6 workers and send them back to the gas. I dont think that this is a good way ^^ 3) How do I spread my and siege my tanks incredible fast like some other players? At the moment i hotkeyed all my tanks at 2 and then click on every single tank with a shift command to move+siege but some players do it sooo incredible fast.^ that's it for now i guess thx anyone?
These are all good questions! This kind of mechanic is so second nature to me i had to go into a game to see how I do it.
1) This uses shift to enhance smartcasting and send scvs back to the mineral line.
Take the right number of scvs off your mineral line. Then, holding shift, issue the commands to make the buildings, releasing shift between building types. So, B (to open build menu), S, click to place depot, S, click to plac depot, Release Shift (to return to default command card), Press and Hold Shift, B, F, click to place Factory, then click back to minerals-- this will make two depots and one factory and rally the workers back to the mineral line.
Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017045
2) This one involves using shift to deselect units.
I click them all onto a vespene geyser, then shift-click (to deselect) out the gas scvs out of the group, then direct the entire group minues the 3 deselected workers to the other geyser, then shift-click the gas scvs out of the group, then click back to the mineral line. You can also do this by clicking back to the mineral line, then shift-clicking down to 6 and sending 3 to each geyser, but that usually takes more clicks.
Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017093
3) This one involves using shift to queue up orders.
Give commands to all your tanks to move to the correct positions very quickly, then, before they all reach their location, hit the tank control group and press shift-Siegekey (for me this is C, for most of you it will be E I think). This means each tank has his individual movement direction, but every tank recieves the order to siege up once hes reached his location with a single keystroke.
Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017148
OK yes I derp the split but you get the idea: individually give tanks the movement commands, then hit the tank hotkey and queue up a siege order for them before any movement commands complete.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Double post. Sorry guys ;_; attempting to edit.
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Hi, I keep getting caught out by early game all-in's against P & Z when trying to open FE, is there any 'safe' FE expand builds I can use that wont straight up die to mass stalker/roach all'ins? I'm using Bombers early CC build as shown on one of day 9 daily's and rine/rauder build vs P (can't remember who's build it is) ... aghh so frustrating, it feels like losing to a rush!
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On January 24 2012 20:00 Squigly wrote:
I still have no idea of what im aiming for lategame TvT. Like at all. I palyed a game against a low master and was ahead all game by quite a lot (supply income and army, even upgrades) then just died lategame.
I decided the land war was drawn so went BCs, with 2-2 air as i started, 3-3 soon, his air was 2-1. I kinda went more BC than vikings which i assume was my issue as i got kinda owned by viking thor marine.
What sort of ratio of BC-viking (raven?) is normal?
Cheeky self bump
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 30 2012 22:54 Squigly wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:00 Squigly wrote:
I still have no idea of what im aiming for lategame TvT. Like at all. I palyed a game against a low master and was ahead all game by quite a lot (supply income and army, even upgrades) then just died lategame.
I decided the land war was drawn so went BCs, with 2-2 air as i started, 3-3 soon, his air was 2-1. I kinda went more BC than vikings which i assume was my issue as i got kinda owned by viking thor marine.
What sort of ratio of BC-viking (raven?) is normal? Cheeky self bump
I rarely make more than 5 BCs unless my opponent is massing thors or something weird like that. BCs are a way of expressing your viking advantage in the lategame (once your opponent has tons of scans and thors to prevent you from simply out-spotting his tanks or using banshees). The biggest reason not to overmake BCs is that in sufficient numbers vikings and marines will beat them, so they need support. I'd need to see a replay to know exactly what went wrong, but it sounds like you didn't have enough vikings-- but the solid air upgrades should help a lot.
On January 30 2012 22:54 ShadyKat wrote:
Hi, I keep getting caught out by early game all-in's against P & Z when trying to open FE, is there any 'safe' FE expand builds I can use that wont straight up die to mass stalker/roach all'ins? I'm using Bombers early CC build as shown on one of day 9 daily's and rine/rauder build vs P (can't remember who's build it is) ... aghh so frustrating, it feels like losing to a rush!
If you're in Diamond or above, I'd recommend learning Reactor Hellion FE TvZ and 2 Rax Pressure Expo TvP
If you're below Diamond:
Synystyr's 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE is generally regarded as safe against any sort of P or Z all-in. If you want to go for more technical builds like reactor hellion expand or more economic builds like 1 rax FE, you'll find them to be more powerful, and perfectly able to hold all-ins, but you won't have any breathing room. This build is less economical and puts on less pressure than those builds but gives you a lot of breathing room against all-ins. It's your call.
The 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE
detailed here by Synystyr: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=185963
Build order:
10 Depot
12 Barracks
14 Barracks (2)
16 Depot
15 Orbital Command
~22-24 Command Center -> Orbital when finished
25 Refinery x2
25 Depot (cut marines at ~24-25 until depot is finished. Should have 7 at this point.)
27 Bunker x3
Video Tutorial
In this video, I go over the basics of how to learn a build order, in this case, 2 rax 3 bunker FE.
On twitch.tv: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/294524697
Embedded video (youtube)
+ Show Spoiler +
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Thanks Blazinghand, great post!!
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On January 30 2012 22:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 22:01 saaaa wrote:On January 30 2012 17:50 saaaa wrote:i have questions that may help to improve my mechanics 1) How do i build two different buildings in the fastest way? I box my SCV at the mineral and use the 2 hotkeys to build one building but if i must build for example depot and ebay and do this process to times, because i'm not so familiar with the "esc" hotkey to go back and see on streams that some player do it so fast that i even can't see how they do it. 2) When I have to pull all my SCV's and after the engagement i want to send them back how do i do this the fastest and most efficient way? At the moment i box all scv and click one mineral patch and then i manually click 4-6 workers and send them back to the gas. I dont think that this is a good way ^^ 3) How do I spread my and siege my tanks incredible fast like some other players? At the moment i hotkeyed all my tanks at 2 and then click on every single tank with a shift command to move+siege but some players do it sooo incredible fast.^ that's it for now i guess thx anyone? These are all good questions! This kind of mechanic is so second nature to me i had to go into a game to see how I do it. 1) This uses shift to enhance smartcasting and send scvs back to the mineral line. Take the right number of scvs off your mineral line. Then, holding shift, issue the commands to make the buildings, releasing shift between building types. So, B (to open build menu), S, click to place depot, S, click to plac depot, Release Shift (to return to default command card), Press and Hold Shift, B, F, click to place Factory, then click back to minerals-- this will make two depots and one factory and rally the workers back to the mineral line. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170452) This one involves using shift to deselect units. I click them all onto a vespene geyser, then shift-click (to deselect) out the gas scvs out of the group, then direct the entire group minues the 3 deselected workers to the other geyser, then shift-click the gas scvs out of the group, then click back to the mineral line. You can also do this by clicking back to the mineral line, then shift-clicking down to 6 and sending 3 to each geyser, but that usually takes more clicks. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170933) This one involves using shift to queue up orders. Give commands to all your tanks to move to the correct positions very quickly, then, before they all reach their location, hit the tank control group and press shift-Siegekey (for me this is C, for most of you it will be E I think). This means each tank has his individual movement direction, but every tank recieves the order to siege up once hes reached his location with a single keystroke. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017148 OK yes I derp the split but you get the idea: individually give tanks the movement commands, then hit the tank hotkey and queue up a siege order for them before any movement commands complete.
blazing you're brilliant <3
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Hey guys short question about aut-repair:
Is there a possibility to hotkey the function to set scvs on aut-repair instead of having to right click on the repair symbol?
tyty
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 31 2012 00:27 RyF wrote:
Hey guys short question about aut-repair:
Is there a possibility to hotkey the function to set scvs on aut-repair instead of having to right click on the repair symbol?
tyty
to turn on/ turn off auto-repair, hit ALT+R (or ALT + whatever your repair key is)
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On January 30 2012 18:18 Blazinghand wrote:
That's not an honest question. It's begging the question. I will, however, provide you the answer that will increase your TvP skill the most.
You've implied that it's easy for terran to lose to protoss in the same sense that I imply you are vegetarian when I ask "so why did you decide to be a vegetarian?"
TvP is balanced. There are lots of ways for either side to lose, and they both have a variety of ways to defend and execute all-ins and take advantages and make attacks throughout the game. It is not so easy for terran to lose to protoss as you imply-- this sort of mindset holds you back as a player.
Liberate yourself from this misconception.
Think about how easy it is for you to win
Think about how you can improve as a player.
Free your mind.
:D
There is no spoon
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On January 30 2012 22:54 Squigly wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:00 Squigly wrote:
I still have no idea of what im aiming for lategame TvT. Like at all. I palyed a game against a low master and was ahead all game by quite a lot (supply income and army, even upgrades) then just died lategame.
I decided the land war was drawn so went BCs, with 2-2 air as i started, 3-3 soon, his air was 2-1. I kinda went more BC than vikings which i assume was my issue as i got kinda owned by viking thor marine.
What sort of ratio of BC-viking (raven?) is normal? Cheeky self bump
Ordinarily have almost 3 times as many vikings, unless your opponent does not have many - you have to judge how many you need to overpower his number, taking into account thors (marines shouldn't be an issue with tanks). Ravens are not a necessity unless he has multiple himself - though having said that, having a couple can help greatly if you can force him to engage; it's a question of how much gas you have access to and your macro. If he's doing something odd like massing thors then just go straight to battlecruisers and don't clump them. Battlecruisers have 550 HP and chew through thors so hitting a timing at 3-5 to at least take map control (normally a Xel Naga tower, or push him right back to an expansion or his natural etc.) can be perfect.
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On January 30 2012 23:55 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 22:39 Blazinghand wrote:On January 30 2012 22:01 saaaa wrote:On January 30 2012 17:50 saaaa wrote:i have questions that may help to improve my mechanics 1) How do i build two different buildings in the fastest way? I box my SCV at the mineral and use the 2 hotkeys to build one building but if i must build for example depot and ebay and do this process to times, because i'm not so familiar with the "esc" hotkey to go back and see on streams that some player do it so fast that i even can't see how they do it. 2) When I have to pull all my SCV's and after the engagement i want to send them back how do i do this the fastest and most efficient way? At the moment i box all scv and click one mineral patch and then i manually click 4-6 workers and send them back to the gas. I dont think that this is a good way ^^ 3) How do I spread my and siege my tanks incredible fast like some other players? At the moment i hotkeyed all my tanks at 2 and then click on every single tank with a shift command to move+siege but some players do it sooo incredible fast.^ that's it for now i guess thx anyone? These are all good questions! This kind of mechanic is so second nature to me i had to go into a game to see how I do it. 1) This uses shift to enhance smartcasting and send scvs back to the mineral line. Take the right number of scvs off your mineral line. Then, holding shift, issue the commands to make the buildings, releasing shift between building types. So, B (to open build menu), S, click to place depot, S, click to plac depot, Release Shift (to return to default command card), Press and Hold Shift, B, F, click to place Factory, then click back to minerals-- this will make two depots and one factory and rally the workers back to the mineral line. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170452) This one involves using shift to deselect units. I click them all onto a vespene geyser, then shift-click (to deselect) out the gas scvs out of the group, then direct the entire group minues the 3 deselected workers to the other geyser, then shift-click the gas scvs out of the group, then click back to the mineral line. You can also do this by clicking back to the mineral line, then shift-clicking down to 6 and sending 3 to each geyser, but that usually takes more clicks. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170933) This one involves using shift to queue up orders. Give commands to all your tanks to move to the correct positions very quickly, then, before they all reach their location, hit the tank control group and press shift-Siegekey (for me this is C, for most of you it will be E I think). This means each tank has his individual movement direction, but every tank recieves the order to siege up once hes reached his location with a single keystroke. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017148 OK yes I derp the split but you get the idea: individually give tanks the movement commands, then hit the tank hotkey and queue up a siege order for them before any movement commands complete. blazing you're brilliant <3
blazing can u explain the sieging with tanks exactly? i don't get it that all tanks siege 
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 31 2012 02:59 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 23:55 saaaa wrote:On January 30 2012 22:39 Blazinghand wrote:On January 30 2012 22:01 saaaa wrote:On January 30 2012 17:50 saaaa wrote:i have questions that may help to improve my mechanics 1) How do i build two different buildings in the fastest way? I box my SCV at the mineral and use the 2 hotkeys to build one building but if i must build for example depot and ebay and do this process to times, because i'm not so familiar with the "esc" hotkey to go back and see on streams that some player do it so fast that i even can't see how they do it. 2) When I have to pull all my SCV's and after the engagement i want to send them back how do i do this the fastest and most efficient way? At the moment i box all scv and click one mineral patch and then i manually click 4-6 workers and send them back to the gas. I dont think that this is a good way ^^ 3) How do I spread my and siege my tanks incredible fast like some other players? At the moment i hotkeyed all my tanks at 2 and then click on every single tank with a shift command to move+siege but some players do it sooo incredible fast.^ that's it for now i guess thx anyone? These are all good questions! This kind of mechanic is so second nature to me i had to go into a game to see how I do it. 1) This uses shift to enhance smartcasting and send scvs back to the mineral line. Take the right number of scvs off your mineral line. Then, holding shift, issue the commands to make the buildings, releasing shift between building types. So, B (to open build menu), S, click to place depot, S, click to plac depot, Release Shift (to return to default command card), Press and Hold Shift, B, F, click to place Factory, then click back to minerals-- this will make two depots and one factory and rally the workers back to the mineral line. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170452) This one involves using shift to deselect units. I click them all onto a vespene geyser, then shift-click (to deselect) out the gas scvs out of the group, then direct the entire group minues the 3 deselected workers to the other geyser, then shift-click the gas scvs out of the group, then click back to the mineral line. You can also do this by clicking back to the mineral line, then shift-clicking down to 6 and sending 3 to each geyser, but that usually takes more clicks. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/3070170933) This one involves using shift to queue up orders. Give commands to all your tanks to move to the correct positions very quickly, then, before they all reach their location, hit the tank control group and press shift-Siegekey (for me this is C, for most of you it will be E I think). This means each tank has his individual movement direction, but every tank recieves the order to siege up once hes reached his location with a single keystroke. Visual Aid: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/307017148 OK yes I derp the split but you get the idea: individually give tanks the movement commands, then hit the tank hotkey and queue up a siege order for them before any movement commands complete. blazing you're brilliant <3 blazing can u explain the sieging with tanks exactly? i don't get it that all tanks siege
So basically there are three steps to this process. I will use MS Paint to help.
First, you manually split your tanks with Move command.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N3gqQ.png)
You want all your tanks in motion simultaneously.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cRH4S.png)
Now you hit your tank control group key (I use control group 4 for this).
with all your tanks selected, hold down shift and press E.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lEmnA.png)
This orders them to siege up as soon as they finish their current task, splitting.
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Edit to above post:
This works just like any shift command, orders happen after each other. In this case, you just order 4 tanks to do something after the move in 1 click ^^!
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Yeah, so basically you're gonna be like
Split tanks: clickclickclickclick
then, to queue up the siege, hit like 4 -> shift+E
and you only have to issue one siege command assuming all your tanks are in a control group. This is the most apm-effecient way to do it and the basically the quickest.
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On January 30 2012 18:08 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 15:39 RoboBob wrote:On January 30 2012 05:59 ToastieNL wrote:
Hi there,
I'm looking for streams/replays from Mech Terrans. They need to play Mech TvZ and TvT and preferably TvP, but I suppose nobody but Goody mechs in TvP (and even he does so rarely...)...
Thank you! Goody Avilo Yoshi Kirishima Please let me know if you find more, I'm always looking for mech streamers too. None of them play mech TvP though, they only mech in TvT and TvZ. Yoshi does sky TvP. Goody actually switched to full bio a few weeks ago (and he took 2 games off of Korean Protoss by using bio at Homestory Cup). Avilo does a little bit of everything, but mostly he just whines that Protoss is overpowered because we can't mech against them effectively. Jinro went through a mech "phase" a few weeks ago, which he's done a couple times in the past. Unfortunately now he's falling back into standard play. Also, Demuslim seems to go for mech in TvT most of the times.
Demuslim is probably my favorite western pro. However he goes bio much much more than mech because he can depend on his epic War3 micro. He will mix in mech TvT every once in awhile like any good Terran on maps that are good for it, but I think its a mistake to call him a mech player.
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EPT
