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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On January 25 2013 08:37 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. behind the middle mineral patch is the best spot to put your pylon to prevent the cannon rush...they can still wall it off but the wall off is atrocious where it will allow you stop it as long as you pull probes and chrono zealots on time
Another way to hold this off is to use the mineral trick. Get all your probes to stack next to their pylon and then all of them will hit it at once.(and repeat) Learned this from hero's stream.
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Hey does anyone know I could a really hurt a protoss who FFE's in a PvP. I have never seen a protoss FFE in a PvP I wasn't sure what to do I just went along with a 3-Gate Robo but ended up losing the match
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On January 25 2013 14:53 SelfMade wrote:
Hey does anyone know I could a really hurt a protoss who FFE's in a PvP. I have never seen a protoss FFE in a PvP I wasn't sure what to do I just went along with a 3-Gate Robo but ended up losing the match
Just go proxy robo 4 gate warp prism and collect your ladder points!
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This might be an overly general/situational question, but say you're moving out for a 3 base timing in PvZ, and when you're half way across the map zerg just counter attacks your natural/third with a large roach/ling army. What's the best way to deal with this? If I go for the base trade and move my whole army to a certain base they can just spine the hell out of one of their other bases and defend with infestors, which is hard to break since they've killed a lot of my production by the time I reach the spine wall. And if I go home to defend I'll probably kill the army easily, but I'll end up taking a lot of damage to my infrastructure, and it'll usually buy zerg a ton of time to get a high enough brood/infestor/spine count to be unbreakable.
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On January 25 2013 11:00 Reborn8u wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:37 .kv wrote:On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. behind the middle mineral patch is the best spot to put your pylon to prevent the cannon rush...they can still wall it off but the wall off is atrocious where it will allow you stop it as long as you pull probes and chrono zealots on time Another way to hold this off is to use the mineral trick. Get all your probes to stack next to their pylon and then all of them will hit it at once.(and repeat) Learned this from hero's stream.
This is possible with all races right? I have heard people talk about that.
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On January 25 2013 15:34 Chandra wrote:
This might be an overly general/situational question, but say you're moving out for a 3 base timing in PvZ, and when you're half way across the map zerg just counter attacks your natural/third with a large roach/ling army. What's the best way to deal with this? If I go for the base trade and move my whole army to a certain base they can just spine the hell out of one of their other bases and defend with infestors, which is hard to break since they've killed a lot of my production by the time I reach the spine wall. And if I go home to defend I'll probably kill the army easily, but I'll end up taking a lot of damage to my infrastructure, and it'll usually buy zerg a ton of time to get a high enough brood/infestor/spine count to be unbreakable.
It really depends on the situation. If it's a timing that hits right when the greater spire is starting, you should never turn around--but, you should probably also have about a dozen gates, and the money to cannon up your third behind ~4 of those gates in a massive sim-city. form. You could also take a route that makes it really hard for him to walk around your army, and then build a bunch of cannons at your third and warp in one round defensively. Usually that kind of counter-attack is to free up supply for broods and deter your push, so going home is definitely wrong, in that case.
If you're hitting earlier than that, you probably have either charge or blink, and you're probably hitting with some kind of upgrade timing. In that case, your third is probably less defended because it's an earlier timing, but by that same token your opponent probably is further away from brood tech, so you have the time and mobility to turn around and kill that army. My preference, in this situation, is to try to corner that army and then counter-attack after crushing it. It means delaying the original timing, but in this kind of situation you're going to open up another timing because of a supply lead after crushing an army while retaining most of yours.
It is definitely a very general question. I think the worst part of delaying the timing is that infestors gain more energy, but with the egg terran nerf, that isn't as bad for later armor/shield upgrade timings. It depends on a lot of variables.
On January 25 2013 16:54 KAB00000000M wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 11:00 Reborn8u wrote:On January 25 2013 08:37 .kv wrote:On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. behind the middle mineral patch is the best spot to put your pylon to prevent the cannon rush...they can still wall it off but the wall off is atrocious where it will allow you stop it as long as you pull probes and chrono zealots on time Another way to hold this off is to use the mineral trick. Get all your probes to stack next to their pylon and then all of them will hit it at once.(and repeat) Learned this from hero's stream. This is possible with all races right? I have heard people talk about that.
It's called a 'drone drill.' Or, I guess, probe drill or scv drill. A drill. Unless there's some other way to stack them up, of which I'm not aware.
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On January 25 2013 15:34 Chandra wrote:
This might be an overly general/situational question, but say you're moving out for a 3 base timing in PvZ, and when you're half way across the map zerg just counter attacks your natural/third with a large roach/ling army. What's the best way to deal with this? If I go for the base trade and move my whole army to a certain base they can just spine the hell out of one of their other bases and defend with infestors, which is hard to break since they've killed a lot of my production by the time I reach the spine wall. And if I go home to defend I'll probably kill the army easily, but I'll end up taking a lot of damage to my infrastructure, and it'll usually buy zerg a ton of time to get a high enough brood/infestor/spine count to be unbreakable.
It depends on the situation and what kind of 3 base timing your going for. If you do a chargelot immo sentry ht kind of deal. You also need to know about the greater spire. If it is done you can't turn back. However what you can do is send like 10 zealots to his main base and fuck shit up. and Head back with the rest of your army. If you can take out his main base and crush his army you win.
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On January 25 2013 11:00 Reborn8u wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:37 .kv wrote:On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. behind the middle mineral patch is the best spot to put your pylon to prevent the cannon rush...they can still wall it off but the wall off is atrocious where it will allow you stop it as long as you pull probes and chrono zealots on time Another way to hold this off is to use the mineral trick. Get all your probes to stack next to their pylon and then all of them will hit it at once.(and repeat) Learned this from hero's stream.
Anyone able to do this and upload a replay? I tried doing it just now and it didn't work for me..  (
So i'm confused how you're supposed to do it.
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On January 26 2013 08:54 dachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 11:00 Reborn8u wrote:On January 25 2013 08:37 .kv wrote:On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. behind the middle mineral patch is the best spot to put your pylon to prevent the cannon rush...they can still wall it off but the wall off is atrocious where it will allow you stop it as long as you pull probes and chrono zealots on time Another way to hold this off is to use the mineral trick. Get all your probes to stack next to their pylon and then all of them will hit it at once.(and repeat) Learned this from hero's stream. Anyone able to do this and upload a replay? I tried doing it just now and it didn't work for me.. ( So i'm confused how you're supposed to do it.
Drone drilling isn't reliable iirc
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Are the guides in the beginning of this thread outdated slightly? I read some comments about MC's PvT being out of style because stim timings will hurt you without a sentry, and from what I see in GSL sentries in early game are pretty prevalent...
I know im not GSL quality, but I want some strong standard builds where if I do lose its because my mechanics weren't strong, not because its outdated and loses to modern stuff... I feel this is the best way to learn.
some links to more modern guides would be greatly appreciated (or confirmation that the guides are still modern)
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On January 25 2013 09:53 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. Make the pylon where he would normally put his. The difference is that you can clip through your own pylon while you couldn't if it was his pylon.
what good will getting 1 little probe inside his wall do me? it wont take his cannon down fast enough, and if his probe gets first hit im dead. seems more important to me to prevent the wall off. drone drill works but if hes got a big enough area back there he can drop another pylon behind the one i just killed. iv tried dropping the pylon where he would be putting his cannon, but il try the center pylon idea to see what diference it makes.
thanks for the ideas!
EDIT: actually after thinking about that for a minute if i can get in there before his pylons finish up and drop a pylon in the middle to block the space would be pretty badass. cept his probe will be there to block my block. so maybe not reliable??
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Canada13407 Posts
On January 26 2013 12:33 Tzela wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:53 Geiko wrote:On January 25 2013 07:51 Tzela wrote:
is there a certain way i can place my first pylons to help prevent cannons behind the mineral line? especially on maps where he only needs 2 pylons to wall himself in back there like daybreak.
i see most pros drop their second pylon back there im just not sure of the logic of this. seems like im aiding him to wall it off. Make the pylon where he would normally put his. The difference is that you can clip through your own pylon while you couldn't if it was his pylon. what good will getting 1 little probe inside his wall do me? it wont take his cannon down fast enough, and if his probe gets first hit im dead. seems more important to me to prevent the wall off. drone drill works but if hes got a big enough area back there he can drop another pylon behind the one i just killed. iv tried dropping the pylon where he would be putting his cannon, but il try the center pylon idea to see what diference it makes. thanks for the ideas! EDIT: actually after thinking about that for a minute if i can get in there before his pylons finish up and drop a pylon in the middle to block the space would be pretty badass. cept his probe will be there to block my block. so maybe not reliable??
If you delay the cannon for long enough then you can win by killing the pylons blocking him in
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Italy12246 Posts
On January 26 2013 11:51 Phloat wrote:
Are the guides in the beginning of this thread outdated slightly? I read some comments about MC's PvT being out of style because stim timings will hurt you without a sentry, and from what I see in GSL sentries in early game are pretty prevalent...
I know im not GSL quality, but I want some strong standard builds where if I do lose its because my mechanics weren't strong, not because its outdated and loses to modern stuff... I feel this is the best way to learn.
some links to more modern guides would be greatly appreciated (or confirmation that the guides are still modern)
MC's build is out of style at the pro level because it's "too" safe and not economical enough vs 1rax no gas FE. It has absolutely nothing to do with stim timings (which by the way are terrible off one base).
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Hello, lately mass muta became more popular, i need help on how to stop it, I dont mean regular muta play, I mean this kind of muta play:
http://drop.sc/298814
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In PvP, what is the proper response if an opponent steals your gas?
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On January 26 2013 18:39 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 11:51 Phloat wrote:
Are the guides in the beginning of this thread outdated slightly? I read some comments about MC's PvT being out of style because stim timings will hurt you without a sentry, and from what I see in GSL sentries in early game are pretty prevalent...
I know im not GSL quality, but I want some strong standard builds where if I do lose its because my mechanics weren't strong, not because its outdated and loses to modern stuff... I feel this is the best way to learn.
some links to more modern guides would be greatly appreciated (or confirmation that the guides are still modern) MC's build is out of style at the pro level because it's "too" safe and not economical enough vs 1rax no gas FE. It has absolutely nothing to do with stim timings (which by the way are terrible off one base).
Ok... so is the other build in the OP (which is suggested against no gas FE) in style / good enough to learn solidly and expect good practice?
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Italy12246 Posts
All of them. 2gate Obs is overly safe though.
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On January 27 2013 07:28 Teoita wrote:
All of them. 2gate Obs is overly safe though.
But not bad for lower leagues. it has some aggressive options too, which is nice. I must admit, I never use it, but I still think it has its place, even high up in the Master's league, just below the best there. People just don't have refined responses. I'm having great fun in PvZ now with 2 gas openings, crushing all ins, simply because people don't have good reactions. I manage the same in PvP, where I have a good win rate doing 1 Gate expands.
BTW, I'm loving this global play, I'm currently crushing face in NA :D:D (laglessly, I might add; playing with people as far away as Washington, both of us playing without lag to my surprise - virtually identical to EU). No. 1 in my master's division, dunno if I'll keep it, seeing as I'm coasting on bonus pool so far, but we'll see!
What do you think of 1 Gate Robo expand in PvT? This talk about ill-refined reactions has got me thinking, the fast obs plus reasonably fast expo should make for a nice balance of throwing Terran off while maintaining a reasonable eco (and making good decisions based on the scouting). I must try it out. haven't got any experience with it, though.
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what to do against a terran that stays on one base and only builds marines? i couldn't get up his ramp to see what other buildings he had but his rax had no add-on. once my obs came over i saw 5rax without addons, and he was coming with a thousand marines. i did a 3gate robo expand because he was definitely going to all-in me. i didnt have enough units to stop this, lost all my probes and had to GG. any general help forthis kind of play?
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Canada13407 Posts
On January 27 2013 08:09 probeater wrote:
what to do against a terran that stays on one base and only builds marines? i couldn't get up his ramp to see what other buildings he had but his rax had no add-on. once my obs came over i saw 5rax without addons, and he was coming with a thousand marines. i did a 3gate robo expand because he was definitely going to all-in me. i didnt have enough units to stop this, lost all my probes and had to GG. any general help forthis kind of play?
If you don't feel comfortable with your stalker micro against marines, you could always give up the natural and get collossus then kill your opponent because he has marines without upgrades and no tech on the way. Usually when people do this they pull scvs and in those scenarios I've gone up my ramp, gotten collossus and won because plain marines vs collossus are really really bad.
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EPT
