EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 353
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Phil0s0pher
Australia317 Posts
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hecticSc
Romania76 Posts
It seems everything i try just fails miserably and am only able to win if he allins me in the early game and i defend. I'm having a very hard time in the midgame and i don't know what i'm doing wrong. For the record, i've tried the following: nexus first into 4g robo with 2 colossus timing push ... i can never break his bunkers in time before a couple of vikings come out and it's gg because i don't have blink and i lose my colossi. Nexus first or 1g expand into 4gate aggression when i scout gasless expand followed by robo tech ... i cant break the bunkers and even if he loses like 15-25 scvs in the process he still manages to do a stim timing with 2 medivacs and i only have 1 colossus without lance and get roflstomped. Nexus first into double forge chrono upgrades with colossus passive play. He just grabs a third and starts pumping out vikings like crazy. When we engage he always has 10+ vikings, kills my colossi and even if i land 1-2 good storms it's not enough to kill marauders and he wins due to my lack of splash damage. I simply do not know how to play vs terran anymore. Last season i didnt play a lot and 2 seasons ago every game was 1/1/1's or 3 rax or some kind of other shady crap so i'm not used to play macro games against terran. My question is. Should i just go 1g expand and focus on chronoing probes with 3g double forge into robotech ? Is blink a must before 10m to defend drops ? Can i push midgame without charge ? It seems like however i look at the problem it just boils down to: NEED MORE VESPENE GAS ffs. Help ? thx | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On October 15 2012 16:01 hecticSc wrote: Hello tl protosses. Recently i've been having a REALLY hard time dealing with terrans on the ladder. Few days ago got promoted to masters solely on pvp and pvz games because my pvt is something like 20% win/loss. It seems everything i try just fails miserably and am only able to win if he allins me in the early game and i defend. I'm having a very hard time in the midgame and i don't know what i'm doing wrong. It seems to me like you view this game as a bunch of build orders. You can win a lot of games that way, but eventually, you hit this wall which you have found. Welcome to Masters! It's time to start playing reactively. Of course, this is the ubiquitous moment for me to tell you that you should post some replays, since a picture is worth a thousand words. For the record, i've tried the following: nexus first into 4g robo with 2 colossus timing push ... i can never break his bunkers in time before a couple of vikings come out and it's gg because i don't have blink and i lose my colossi Nexus first or 1g expand into 4gate aggression when i scout gasless expand followed by robo tech ... i cant break the bunkers and even if he loses like 15-25 scvs in the process he still manages to do a stim timing with 2 medivacs and i only have 1 colossus without lance and get roflstomped. Colossi are not the be-all end-all units; while they can crush pushes or go end games, they do actually have downsides. Think of a Colossus like a Catapult: it's not very fast and it shoots slowly, but as a siege unit it's very strong. If you are fighting in positions where people can pick off your Colossi, then your problem is that you're trying to do too much with a very specific unit. Sometimes, yes, you can go across the map and kill your opponent with a 2 Colossus+Lance or 1 Colossus without Lance timing, but against good players that's not going to kill people. They're probably going to scout your robo, they're probably going to bunker up and get Marauders, and they're probably going to use battle positioning to deal with your Colossi. Nexus first into double forge chrono upgrades with colossus passive play. He just grabs a third and starts pumping out vikings like crazy. When we engage he always has 10+ vikings, kills my colossi and even if i land 1-2 good storms it's not enough to kill marauders and he wins due to my lack of splash damage So you have to accept that the Colossus timing windows exist for a couple of reasons: 1. To hold bio pushes, AKA the 10-12 minute Stim+Medivac timings or earlier Stim timings. 2. To punish Terrans who are being greedy and cutting corners. Maybe it doesn't kill them, but you might force them to liftoff an expansion while you set up your own, or you cliff harass and pick off some units while you can. Winning the game doesn't usually happen, but sometimes you can kill stuff for free. An advantage is an advantage. 3. To force the Terran into building Vikings instead of Medivacs, to build another Starport, and/or to build a higher volume of Marauders (as opposed to more Marines or something else). This is exactly like forcing a Zerg player to build lings instead of drones. If you force Vikings, that means he's not building Medivacs. Medivacs are energy units, which means they produce HP over time and therefore act like a steady income of more bio units. So if they're making Vikings instead,they have a lower Medivac count, which means you trade more efficiently with the Bio, and it also means that they have less actual dropships so it's literally more difficult for them to drop you. Don't think of timing attacks as a time when you go all-in and kill the opponent. If it gets deflected, you need to move on to the next thing. If you do some damage, then you can be greedier, or prepare another timing window to do more damage at your opponent's newly exposed weakness. I simply do not know how to play vs terran anymore. Last season i didnt play a lot and 2 seasons ago every game was 1/1/1's or 3 rax or some kind of other shady crap so i'm not used to play macro games against terran. You're not alone. A lot of Terrans are used to warpgate timings and Colossus timings, so they're going to be adjusting to more macro-central play at your level, too. The key difference here is that Terrans suddenly know how to micro competently with their Bio, once you hit a point. So you're going to just have to step up your game. My question is. Should i just go 1g expand and focus on chronoing probes with 3g double forge into robotech ? Is blink a must before 10m to defend drops ? Can i push midgame without charge ? Figure out some kind of Fast Expansion build you like, and just play that one for a while to get used to it. If you find out that it doesn't leave you with the right transition/position that you like, then adjust it down the road or pick something else. But try just one opener for a while, so you can focus more on the midgame and lategame. Go to the OP of this thread, go read up on some different PvT styles that lead into taking a third base, and practice the one you like the most. No, you don't need blink to defend drops. Blink is actually really bad for defending drops on some maps. You're good at PvP, right? Which maps are good for blinking in and out of bases, and which are not? On Cloud Kingdom or Antiga, Blink Stalkers are awesome because cliffs are everywhere. On Daybreak, it's way harder to use blink to go from the corner of your main to the mineral patches at your natural. So you are eventually going to need to learn other ways to handle drops. Plus, you're going to start facing drops from the other 2 races a lot more, and you won't always have blink in those matchups, either...so get used to minimap awareness and multipronged aggression because it will only increase as you move up the ladder. Split your army up and play smart! The same thing goes for charge, although while the terrain of the map is relevant, it's also relevant that you choose your gateway units based upon the support units in your army. Are you making Colossi and Sentries? Maybe you should have more Stalkers and Immortals in your army, since you have such long range that you want everything to fight together as you split his army up with forcefields. When you make that army composition, you don't actually want your Zealots doing anything besides buffering bio units from coming forward and sniping your Colossi. However, if you're trying to have a mobile army and you want to trap the Bio into stormable positions, then that's when you want Chargelots. Or if you have a more upgraded army, you want Chargelots. It seems like however i look at the problem it just boils down to: NEED MORE VESPENE GAS ffs. Help ? thx I would go find yourself some Terran practice partners and play as many games against Terran as you possibly can. It's your worst match-up, so it needs the most work. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
I noticed in my replays that I scout very much in the early game (gas timings, timings of natural / 3rd etc.) but in the midgame I play blind. Usually I don't want to use more than 2 Observers in PvZ (except the Zerg goes for Muta) and in many cases they got sniped by Queens / Spores / Infestors. I started to incorporate Hallucination now in every PvZ where I don't open up Stargate to use hallucinated Phoenix. But still, I'm not satisfied because I can't scout a fast Spire early enough. By the way, I usually go 4 Gate into Twilight into Robo & 3rd which delays Observers quite a bit. Another big problem in PvZ is my positioning. Due to my lack of Observers my army is sometimes in bad positions and smart Zerg players visit my 3rd with Roaches & Lings and try to kill my infrastructure there. In most cases they get Gateways and maybe a Cannon because of my SimCity at the 3rd. What is a good idea to solve this problem? Split my army with some units at the Natural and the 3rd? As I've said before: Smart Zerg have Overseers with their army and so my Observer gets sniped very easily which is a big difference from PvT where they have to scan if they suspect an Observer. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26876 Posts
On October 17 2012 00:12 Bahajinbo wrote: Bahajinbo again. Usually I have a very strong PvZ because most Zerg in the Platinum and Diamond league just play not very well. But I struggle a lot against strange styles, especially Baneling Drops and fast Mutas. So I want to ask you: How do I scout properly in PvZ midgame? I noticed in my replays that I scout very much in the early game (gas timings, timings of natural / 3rd etc.) but in the midgame I play blind. Usually I don't want to use more than 2 Observers in PvZ (except the Zerg goes for Muta) and in many cases they got sniped by Queens / Spores / Infestors. I started to incorporate Hallucination now in every PvZ where I don't open up Stargate to use hallucinated Phoenix. But still, I'm not satisfied because I can't scout a fast Spire early enough. By the way, I usually go 4 Gate into Twilight into Robo & 3rd which delays Observers quite a bit. Another big problem in PvZ is my positioning. Due to my lack of Observers my army is sometimes in bad positions and smart Zerg players visit my 3rd with Roaches & Lings and try to kill my infrastructure there. In most cases they get Gateways and maybe a Cannon because of my SimCity at the 3rd. What is a good idea to solve this problem? Split my army with some units at the Natural and the 3rd? As I've said before: Smart Zerg have Overseers with their army and so my Observer gets sniped very easily which is a big difference from PvT where they have to scan if they suspect an Observer. I noticed similar trends in my play so tried make a few tweaks and it seems to work pretty well, at least more so than before. Basically I figured that my observers were a bit too delayed because I was blind chronoing out Immortals to deal with the standard heavy roach pressures, and as you mentioned after lair good Zergs tend to snipe your observers anyway. Taking Safe Thirds PvZ There should be enough information in here with which to make the necessary tweaks to your play that you need. I tend to go for the pretty fast thirds advocated, i.e the Puzzle style mentioned there, or even earlier 3rd Nexus builds such as Zeth's 7:30 3rd Nexus. It addresses many of the common problems people are finding, and potential solutions so pick and choose. For me the process included: 1. Getting a more heavy zealot/sentry composition in the first 10 minutes of the game to deal with roach pressure, with cannons in place. The additional bonus of getting early sentries in lieu of stalkers is that you will be more mineral heavy than you otherwise would, in addition to them pooling more energy. The weakness of that composition is a fast spire play, but all is not lost. Because you have so many sentries pretty early, you get hallucination early as well to see if a fast muta build is in the works. Also zealot/sentry is actually better in terms of early defence if you forcefield right anyway, stalkers are a good offensive, pushing unit and decent against mutalisks, but actually pretty bad when you're trying to hold your own bases. For one, their DPS is bad, and 2, they become much better units with blink, however when you're trying to hold a position this advantage is less useful. Simply put there's only so far back you can blink without ceding ground. 2. With the 4 gate/robo infrastructure established, and with the aim of a quickish third to come/already being established you can start adding the necessary additional tech. However I prioritise immortals ahead of observers for a bit just to give my defending forces more chance to hold the third with ease, so here the advantage of early, and many sentries comes into play. Just keep sending hallucinated phoenixes around the place if you're not sure what he's up to, and if you know what he's planning adjust accordingly. 3. Assuming that all is well and you're established on solid footing into the midgame, you can scout with a few zealots around the place, hallucinated phoenix, and a few forward obs with a group of a few stalkers if necessary. I like to keep a small squad of blink stalkers, 2 or 3 with an obs for clearing creep and they can blink back if necessary. Clearing creep is a really important and underlooked aspect of PvZ. An advantage of my particular preferences in PvZ is that I generally cut collosus play out, so the robo has a lot more production time available for observers. 4. Sentry retention is really key. They're gas heavy for a start so replacing them later on will slow down other tech choices, and in addition you want to sent phoenixes around the place whenever possible. 5. In cases where you can't scout an early spire fast enough, and are caught with your pants down so to speak, you're still not in a terrible position from my experience. I do try to sacrifice a zealot around 8 minute or so just to gauge their composition, and if I see a small force, especially one that is Ling heavy it can be a giveaway that they are banking for a muta swell. The first wave of mutas, if sent straight to your base actually does less damage than you'd expect as in those small numbers your sentries with GS fare pretty well. In addition with a third already established you will have the requisite gas income you need to progress into the mid/lategame. The primary strength of mutalisks in this matchup is delaying your third, which is really the critical base you need to gain a strong fighting force, but with the third already up you should be alright at this point. 6. Don't be afraid to throw down a second robo at later stages in the game, the additional production means you're less pressured on choosing the right times to build things and gives you more flexibility. For example you can keep one producing collosus, and the other one can be making observers and warp prisms to really extend your potential reach on the map. 7. Really look at how pros like to simcity on certain maps and bring them into your play. For me one great map for this is Cloud Kingdom, where you can build gateways/a cannon at the rocks leading into your natural. Attempts to push up this position can be slowed by a single full energy sentry, allowing you to transfer the majority of your army to the third base. The mere delay caused by such a simcity also gives you more time to position forces correctly. The downside of such simcity approaches are of course against Muta play, so keep an eye on your opponent if you suspect he's going down that route. I've also noticed that making extra gateways as a positional buffer is also a great way to already have the gateway count that you need for later on when your third base economy kicks in there's a big spike. Hope some of this helped, may actually get on and try to get some replays later perhaps. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
Observers are fine units, but they are also really slow. Because of this, and because zergs are really starting to wise up and make a couple overseers to snipe your Obs with their Queens, this means it takes a long time to potentially not even find a Spire or Baneling Nest before it's too late to make adjustments to your play. So, I think you need to use something else to scout them. Hallucinate is pretty good for this, but another way to use your robo is to just make Warp Prisms. You will be mineral heavy anyways, so just make a couple of them. Warp Prisms are faster than Observers and they have enough health that you can tank a little damage from 2 queens to scout things out, then fly them out. They don't have the invisible quality so they aren't as good at helping you punish the zerg for secretly knowing his army positioning, but you can still make Observers additionally if you want to do that. Meanwhile, if the opportunity arises, you can do a lot of damage with offensive warp-ins and punish the zerg in the way that terrans do with their medivac timings. So they have to adjust to your aggression, which often takes the pressure off of your third base and can let you establish tech a bit more. Something else you should consider, if you're in Robo but not Stargate tech, is to just make 2 Robos. Just do it. You can afford it off of 2 bases, you're going to have extra gas, so this lets you build Obs/Prisms while you make Immortals, and against a Roach max you can double-pump Immortals. It's literally the cost of a Sentry and one less Gateway to produce another Robo, and a Robo is basically as useful as 2 Gateways...so just do it. This also opens up really sick immortal-heavy pushes against spine crawler walls, which makes it really useful in the long run against Muta play and against Hive tech. Personally, I think that the best answer to Mutas is, and always will be, Phoenixes. I also think that Phoenixes are just the best scouting units because they scout well, but they also deny information from overlords out on the map, and then they also provide harassment damage. But, you should definitely know how to play games without Phoenixes because it's always good to keep Zerg guessing and do different styles in a BoX series...which is why I like to either do this aforementioned Double Robo play, or use a DT harass (with a prism) in that stage of the game, to have some faster/more aggressive scouting units out there. | ||
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laerin
United Kingdom3 Posts
I checked the replay. There's a couple seconds here and there where my probe production is interrupted but until his final push on me, I always had more probes than he had scvs. Even after both of his drops where he'd killed some of my probes, I still had more workers. I killed a bunch of his marines and the medivacs durings these drops too which should've put me further ahead I'd have though. I did a 1 gate fast expand, went to 3 gates robo, later got another 2 gates and double forge twilight and had a working third before he'd built one. The post game stats showed practically equal collection rates but he had significantly higher unspent resources. Also, I was trying to focus on macro so I didn't do much microing. Basically, while I am a horrible horrible player, I feel like I shouldn't be losing 50% of my games in the bronze league. http://ge.tt/api/1/files/2fDtxdP/1/blob?download | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On October 17 2012 08:48 laerin wrote: Could I get any help with this replay? Bronze level player. I know my macro isn't perfect, but from the opinion I see of people on here about bronze level players, it's definitely better than 'bronze level'. I checked the replay. There's a couple seconds here and there where my probe production is interrupted but until his final push on me, I always had more probes than he had scvs. Even after both of his drops where he'd killed some of my probes, I still had more workers. I killed a bunch of his marines and the medivacs durings these drops too which should've put me further ahead I'd have though. I did a 1 gate fast expand, went to 3 gates robo, later got another 2 gates and double forge twilight and had a working third before he'd built one. The post game stats showed practically equal collection rates but he had significantly higher unspent resources. Also, I was trying to focus on macro so I didn't do much microing. Basically, while I am a horrible horrible player, I feel like I shouldn't be losing 50% of my games in the bronze league. http://ge.tt/api/1/files/2fDtxdP/1/blob?download A couple things, it felt like with the scouting information you had, you could have addressed windows of opportunity. What lost you that game was the engagement at the halfway point where your zealots ran in without the army behind them. Everything looked good at home, when you scout with the probe the first thing you look for is the gas. If you see a gas then you can expect early game pressure or some sort of tech (banshees etc). Reaction would be to get observers or a method of scouting. So you scout your opponent and you see no gas, trigger: expand. You built the zealot before the cyber core, and noticed that your opponent only had 1 marine at the time. trigger: chrono out the stalker and apply pressure early on!. You have taken the two gas at your expansion and both mineral lines are well saturated. trigger: twilight and forge, 2-3 gateways per saturated base. To me it looks like you just need to familiarize yourself with the matchup more = play more games, understand engagements and determine ahead of time if you will come out ahead or not. Def try to apply more pressure early on, and get your charge upgrade / armor upgrades going quicker. Tip: When you have a group of workers selected and you move them to a resource spot, pressing 'c' will tell the workers that are holding cargo, to return it first before going to the selected resource spot. (this way you dont have to right click your nexus, just simply click the mineral piles anyway and press 'c' and move on to something else, same goes with transferring workers to gas). | ||
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laerin
United Kingdom3 Posts
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Asmodeusx
286 Posts
On October 17 2012 08:48 laerin wrote: Could I get any help with this replay? Bronze level player. I know my macro isn't perfect, but from the opinion I see of people on here about bronze level players, it's definitely better than 'bronze level'. I checked the replay. There's a couple seconds here and there where my probe production is interrupted but until his final push on me, I always had more probes than he had scvs. Even after both of his drops where he'd killed some of my probes, I still had more workers. I killed a bunch of his marines and the medivacs durings these drops too which should've put me further ahead I'd have though. I did a 1 gate fast expand, went to 3 gates robo, later got another 2 gates and double forge twilight and had a working third before he'd built one. The post game stats showed practically equal collection rates but he had significantly higher unspent resources. Also, I was trying to focus on macro so I didn't do much microing. Basically, while I am a horrible horrible player, I feel like I shouldn't be losing 50% of my games in the bronze league. http://ge.tt/api/1/files/2fDtxdP/1/blob?download On October 17 2012 10:01 DanceSC wrote: A couple things, it felt like with the scouting information you had, you could have addressed windows of opportunity. What lost you that game was the engagement at the halfway point where your zealots ran in without the army behind them. Everything looked good at home, when you scout with the probe the first thing you look for is the gas. If you see a gas then you can expect early game pressure or some sort of tech (banshees etc). Reaction would be to get observers or a method of scouting. So you scout your opponent and you see no gas, trigger: expand. You built the zealot before the cyber core, and noticed that your opponent only had 1 marine at the time. trigger: chrono out the stalker and apply pressure early on!. You have taken the two gas at your expansion and both mineral lines are well saturated. trigger: twilight and forge, 2-3 gateways per saturated base. To me it looks like you just need to familiarize yourself with the matchup more = play more games, understand engagements and determine ahead of time if you will come out ahead or not. Def try to apply more pressure early on, and get your charge upgrade / armor upgrades going quicker. Tip: When you have a group of workers selected and you move them to a resource spot, pressing 'c' will tell the workers that are holding cargo, to return it first before going to the selected resource spot. (this way you dont have to right click your nexus, just simply click the mineral piles anyway and press 'c' and move on to something else, same goes with transferring workers to gas). ...just no. If you're in bronze, that's because you're not making enaugh stuff. That's ALL there is to it. | ||
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laerin
United Kingdom3 Posts
On October 18 2012 02:47 Asmodeusx wrote: ...just no. If you're in bronze, that's because you're not making enaugh stuff. That's ALL there is to it. I think that was meant to be extra advice he was giving me to improve. He said the reason I lost was when half my zealots got killed before my units did much damage. I thought I pretty much always spent my money though. When it got high, it was only because it was right before the next warp in cycle. Have you watched the replay? What do you think I should have done differently? | ||
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
I saw Rain x Leenock in WCS, where Rain defended perfectly and went for fleat beacon before taking a fourth, and didn`t push before vortex. I am trying that, but when I do, I am in a worse position than if it was a normal game. I don`t have a bank and the fourth is a bigger pain to defend. I guess in a normal game after Puzzle`s opening you can rely on making the 14-16min poke to at least reduce infestor numbers, maybe kill far bases. But if I am defending mutas, I can`t do that poke and I am in a much worse position in the late game. So the question is, how can I punish a zerg that goes for some mutas and doesn`t do damage? Should I push out much earlier and go for a base trade? Scratch the robo expand builds? Try to execute even better and procede as a normal game? And how do I scout if he is overcommiting to mutas, between observers being killed and lack of map presence? I only find out when they fly in my base. That`s actually a lot of questions, lol, tks in advance. I am low NA masters, if it is relevant | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:21 DontGiveUp wrote: I am having trouble with mutas on big maps when I go ffe-robo-third (puzzle`s macro build from monk`s thread). Sometimes I can`t scout them or I react poorly and lose; that`s my fault for not executing properly. Other times, I can deter harass with little damage than... I am lost. The old plan of keeping some templars +cannons back and pushing with a big stalker/zealot/templar is not working unless they heavily commit to mutas. But if it zerg made less than 20 mutas, my push is met with infestor/spine/morphing broodlors, and I am screwed, save if I can feedback every infestor. I saw Rain x Leenock in WCS, where Rain defended perfectly and went for fleat beacon before taking a fourth, and didn`t push before vortex. I am trying that, but when I do, I am in a worse position than if it was a normal game. I don`t have a bank and the fourth is a bigger pain to defend. I guess in a normal game after Puzzle`s opening you can rely on making the 14-16min poke to at least reduce infestor numbers, maybe kill far bases. But if I am defending mutas, I can`t do that poke and I am in a much worse position in the late game. So the question is, how can I punish a zerg that goes for some mutas and doesn`t do damage? Should I push out much earlier and go for a base trade? Scratch the robo expand builds? Try to execute even better and procede as a normal game? And how do I scout if he is overcommiting to mutas, between observers being killed and lack of map presence? I only find out when they fly in my base. That`s actually a lot of questions, lol, tks in advance. I am low NA masters, if it is relevant Puzzle's robo expand is actually one of the worst builds against mutas. If you try a blink stalker response, you'll usually take too much damage on your way to blink. What he does once he scouts mutas is actually double stargate phoenix. Here are some examples of responses: Puzzle vs Targa on Daybreak Sase vs Leenock on Entombed Valley If you prefer the blink stalker style, instead of robo -> 6 gate -> expand, try robo -> 4 gate -> twilight -> expand -> add 2 gates. See if these small adjustments help. If not, then there's a bigger problem and you have to post a replay in order for someone to help. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
In general, scouting his Hive timing is incredibly important to know wether you can do a timing before bl's come out, or if you need to go to mothership. The exact timings are: Infestation Pit build time: 50 seconds, Time till broodlords: 4 minutes 44 seconds Hive build time: 100 seconds, Time till broodlords: 3 minutes 54 seconds Greater spire build time: 100 seconds, Time till broodlords: 2 minutes 14 seconds Broodlord morph time: 34 seconds If he isn't committing to mutas, it's also possible to move out faster, like when you have 1-2 templar per base with 3-4 ish cannons, and the mutas are already a bit damage. No matter what, basetrading vs mutas will end up in a loss for the p far more often then a win, especially if you are having trouble on big maps. | ||
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Daniel12
Israel29 Posts
If i see at PvT early gas ( i'm the protoss ) what should I do? 1 gate exp with chrono units? 3 gate exp with pressure ( but if he does 3+ bunkers, i will be so far behind because he had exp before me ) 1 gate robo ( in case he does a lot of mech/marauder? ) I'll be grateful for help. Thanks in advance, Daniel. | ||
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:52 Daniel12 wrote: Hello guys, I have a problem: If i see at PvT early gas ( i'm the protoss ) what should I do? 1 gate exp with chrono units? 3 gate exp with pressure ( but if he does 3+ bunkers, i will be so far behind because he had exp before me ) 1 gate robo ( in case he does a lot of mech/marauder? ) I'll be grateful for help. Thanks in advance, Daniel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 Safest 1gate FE out there. | ||
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Patriots
United States19 Posts
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meepkeN
United States52 Posts
On October 18 2012 11:46 Patriots wrote: Does anyone know at least 2 up to date builds for each match up, which work in top masters. thanks I don't know about it working in top masters (low/mid diamond here), but here's what I got: PvP: 2Gate / 3 Stalker into 3gate robo (pushes back zealot/stalker poke for 4gate, robo for DT) or 1Gate Robo into 3gate, also pretty safe. PvZ: FFE (17 nexus, forge, pylon) into 4gate Robo, later to 6 gates + third base. 7-Gate All In. Starts with FFE and chrono's on WG, dropping 6 additional gates around halfway WG completion. >>I usually fit in +1 with this attack, but it hits about 30-60s later. PvT: Opening for colossus tech: 1Gate FE into 3gate robo into colossus for HT tech: same thing but get twilight instead of robo-bay. | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
User was warned for this post Sorry monk | ||
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