EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 354
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On October 18 2012 15:21 Grimmyman123 wrote: Zerg impossible. Heart of the Swarm is more balanced than WoL is, its been broken for so long. Sick and tired of this game. Need help with overall gameplay. Here are replays I do not want individual replay advice. I want broad brush strokes, not pencil lining. thanks, Grimmy http://drop.sc/265787 http://drop.sc/265788 User was warned for this post First and most important advice you need is to lighten up, and realize there are many thousands of better Protoss players actively competing on ladder and beyond fighting and beating many thousands of zerg who are better than the zerg you currently face. You don't fight these zerg, you fight zerg around your level. Same with me. Imbalance has absolutely nothing to do with your losses. This should not be insulting, this should be humbling. If you approach a match-up already defeated by allowing yourself to believe excuses of the game losing and not yourself, then you're displacing blame and avoiding responsibility for what is probably just a brick wall temporarily impeding your progress. As long as there are players better than you doing things right, you should find comfort there are benchmarks you can still yet achieve. How is anyone to help you if you can't help yourself? edit: Absolutely nothing that a professional tells you will change that -- they'll probably just say the same thing. | ||
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Vermiiifuuge
Korea (South)112 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:52 Grimmyman123 wrote: Request Removed. Obtaining help from professionals instead. Good idea. You seem to be needing help, professional help. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:08 Vermiiifuuge wrote: Good idea. You seem to be needing help, professional help. LOL oh man, if TL were a school he'd have to write lines: Zerg is not overpowered Zerg is not overpowered Zerg is not overpowered Zerg is not overpowered Zerg is not overpowered | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Still, I've been called to the board to write that before, many a time; as I am sure, have many other Protoss.  Inferior alien scum to be squished under the Protoss heel...no disrespect, Mawie. :p | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:08 Vermiiifuuge wrote: Good idea. You seem to be needing help, professional help. dont bait or personally attack or insult. | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:52 Grimmyman123 wrote: Request Removed. Obtaining help from professionals instead. lolwut. waste of money. they are going to tell you the exact same thing. they don't have any magic tricks for you to beat zergs. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On October 19 2012 15:43 Corrosive wrote: lolwut. waste of money. they are going to tell you the exact same thing. they don't have any magic tricks for you to beat zergs. Who said I was paying for it?  We went over some 2 base all in's, which are somewhat effective, resourse denying, and 3rd base wall offs. The last though, expensive, does work. | ||
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IM_Pallypal
Canada6 Posts
I feel like I have most of the basics pretty well down pat, I try not to supply block myself, I keep money low, constantly produce probes, yadaa yadaa. Yet I still lose to nearly every bronze league terran I play. Why? because I cant seem to deal with 5 rax no gas. I'm going for a 4 gate most of the time, as I'm most comfortable with stalkers and gate units, and expanding for me is still iffy, my money ends up getting unmanageable and I panic, I'm working on it but for now early play is still my best bet. It's happened about 4 times now, I set a proxy pylon up to be down about the time I finish warp gate, send what units I have to be ready for the 6:30-7 minute push that I've been told is standard, and I start doing alright. Then his marines show up at my base. It's been anywhere between 10-30 at a time, depending on how many barracks he decided to build. Being across the map, I see little choice but to warp in on my next round and continue my attack. Last game this worked fine, he still took my base, but I didn't lose EVERY probe and overall I came out ahead, once he found the nexus I had hidden near my previous proxy pylon and dropped his marines with my stalkers. I got my main back up and running and started building up probes- I'd also crippled him, or so I thought. Turns out, he still had enough to build a CC and 5 rax, after a push I'd barely held off, if you can call it that. Then a bit extra to build 33 marines and stomp me into the ground just as I was pulling my army back together. So, how do I deal with this? Is 4 gate just not viable anymore? Am I forced to 1 gate FE against a terran? I'd really like some help here, I want to improve but I feel like I cant, I've only gotten worse. Here's my build, in case you need a bit more info. This isn't definite, by the way. I'm just recording from my previous match. 9 Pylon 14 Gate 15 gas 16 pylon 17 core 17 Pylon (Proxy) 19 zealot 21 warp gate (Chronoing) 24 zealot 24 gas (Realize this was probably a mistake) 26 gate 29 pylon 32 sentry 33 gate 36 gate 39 pylon And that's basically it, the rest was army production at the proxy. I had 4 zealots, a sentry, and 5 stalkers for a 7 minute push, with 28 probes. Any major flaws you can point out? I just need help all over. EDIT: Just did the 6 rax to another terran trying to go for banshees. They got it into my base and had a decent force defending, I didn't keep scan up so I couldn't defend my line... Still won. Why does this seem imba to me? | ||
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Dabba
United States182 Posts
Now, if he's really going heavy pressure... you want that second gas. You want sentries, a few of them, and early. You want them to build up energy. Stalkers are good with sentries vs marines, and if you're going to do your fighting on your ramp (which you should), you want a few zealots too. In higher numbers and with stim, marines will shread zealots, but if he's one basing you, I'd be using a mix of zealot/stalker/sentry on 4 gates. The best and most effective way is to let say.. 1/3 or half of his army up your ramp, enage with your zealots in front and then forcefield the ramp to keep the rest out. Also pop up guardian shields as soon as the fight starts (Remember, get sentries early so they have the energy for it). His damage to your units just got reduced by 2. Meaning instead of 6 dmg, each rine is doing 4 to sheilds and 3 to the hull. Big reduction in dps, allowing your stalkers to mop them up. If you're feeling confident in your force vs his remaining force, warp in some zealots and another sentry or two, head down the ramp and finish him off. Remember, Guardian shield again and Forcefields behind his marines so they cant shoot and retreat. At this point, you can counter or expand. Countering to me seems more risky unless he really has nothing compared to your army. I'd take the oppurtunty of him not having an army to expand, throw down a robo and collosus den (robo bay) right after and start getting a collosus or two. If he expands as well or not, I'd probably push him as soon as I got my second collosus out. Most of time it's enough to end the game. At the worst, kill his natural retreat while macroing. throw up a replay. | ||
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ProfessionalNoob
United States75 Posts
On October 20 2012 21:21 IM_Pallypal wrote: Alright, Im fairly new to this whole shebang, so I don't exactly expect to win every match or anything, but this is really starting to get frustrating. I'm playing Protoss in bronze. I feel like I have most of the basics pretty well down pat, I try not to supply block myself, I keep money low, constantly produce probes, yadaa yadaa. Yet I still lose to nearly every bronze league terran I play. Why? because I cant seem to deal with 5 rax no gas. I'm going for a 4 gate most of the time, as I'm most comfortable with stalkers and gate units, and expanding for me is still iffy, my money ends up getting unmanageable and I panic, I'm working on it but for now early play is still my best bet. It's happened about 4 times now, I set a proxy pylon up to be down about the time I finish warp gate, send what units I have to be ready for the 6:30-7 minute push that I've been told is standard, and I start doing alright. Then his marines show up at my base. It's been anywhere between 10-30 at a time, depending on how many barracks he decided to build. Being across the map, I see little choice but to warp in on my next round and continue my attack. Last game this worked fine, he still took my base, but I didn't lose EVERY probe and overall I came out ahead, once he found the nexus I had hidden near my previous proxy pylon and dropped his marines with my stalkers. I got my main back up and running and started building up probes- I'd also crippled him, or so I thought. Turns out, he still had enough to build a CC and 5 rax, after a push I'd barely held off, if you can call it that. Then a bit extra to build 33 marines and stomp me into the ground just as I was pulling my army back together. So, how do I deal with this? Is 4 gate just not viable anymore? Am I forced to 1 gate FE against a terran? I'd really like some help here, I want to improve but I feel like I cant, I've only gotten worse. Here's my build, in case you need a bit more info. This isn't definite, by the way. I'm just recording from my previous match. 9 Pylon 14 Gate 15 gas 16 pylon 17 core 17 Pylon (Proxy) 19 zealot 21 warp gate (Chronoing) 24 zealot 24 gas (Realize this was probably a mistake) 26 gate 29 pylon 32 sentry 33 gate 36 gate 39 pylon And that's basically it, the rest was army production at the proxy. I had 4 zealots, a sentry, and 5 stalkers for a 7 minute push, with 28 probes. Any major flaws you can point out? I just need help all over. EDIT: Just did the 6 rax to another terran trying to go for banshees. They got it into my base and had a decent force defending, I didn't keep scan up so I couldn't defend my line... Still won. Why does this seem imba to me? Like the poster above, I'm also only gold, so I'm not sure how good my advice will be. But in general, marines in the early game without medivac support, without stim or combat shields (if it's gasless) should be fairly easy for you to deal with. If he's going for early aggression, instead of 4 gating him (which isn't that great against terran anyways, so I'd rather do something like 1 gate FE) to apply pressure, just play defensively, use sentries with guardian shield + zealots (2 armor on zealots, +2 with guardian shield, means marines do a total of 2 damage to your zealots, so they will be really really good, as long as you don't let him kite you too much) don't overbuild stalkers because their DPS is fairly low for how expensive they are. And as long as you force field nicely, and you don't fall behind in macro too much, you should be OK. So as far as build go, you could still defensively 4 gate if that's what you're comfortable with, but I think 3 gate robo or just straight up 1 gate FE will both be OK against a pure marine rush. At Bronze TBH, it mostly comes down to just macro. So as long as you make probes, pylons, and constantly produce units, you should be OK as long as you are doing a reasonable build. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 20 2012 21:21 IM_Pallypal wrote: + Show Spoiler + Alright, Im fairly new to this whole shebang, so I don't exactly expect to win every match or anything, but this is really starting to get frustrating. I'm playing Protoss in bronze. I feel like I have most of the basics pretty well down pat, I try not to supply block myself, I keep money low, constantly produce probes, yadaa yadaa. Yet I still lose to nearly every bronze league terran I play. Why? because I cant seem to deal with 5 rax no gas. I'm going for a 4 gate most of the time, as I'm most comfortable with stalkers and gate units, and expanding for me is still iffy, my money ends up getting unmanageable and I panic, I'm working on it but for now early play is still my best bet. It's happened about 4 times now, I set a proxy pylon up to be down about the time I finish warp gate, send what units I have to be ready for the 6:30-7 minute push that I've been told is standard, and I start doing alright. Then his marines show up at my base. It's been anywhere between 10-30 at a time, depending on how many barracks he decided to build. Being across the map, I see little choice but to warp in on my next round and continue my attack. Last game this worked fine, he still took my base, but I didn't lose EVERY probe and overall I came out ahead, once he found the nexus I had hidden near my previous proxy pylon and dropped his marines with my stalkers. I got my main back up and running and started building up probes- I'd also crippled him, or so I thought. Turns out, he still had enough to build a CC and 5 rax, after a push I'd barely held off, if you can call it that. Then a bit extra to build 33 marines and stomp me into the ground just as I was pulling my army back together. So, how do I deal with this? Is 4 gate just not viable anymore? Am I forced to 1 gate FE against a terran? I'd really like some help here, I want to improve but I feel like I cant, I've only gotten worse. Here's my build, in case you need a bit more info. This isn't definite, by the way. I'm just recording from my previous match. 9 Pylon 14 Gate 15 gas 16 pylon 17 core 17 Pylon (Proxy) 19 zealot 21 warp gate (Chronoing) 24 zealot 24 gas (Realize this was probably a mistake) 26 gate 29 pylon 32 sentry 33 gate 36 gate 39 pylon And that's basically it, the rest was army production at the proxy. I had 4 zealots, a sentry, and 5 stalkers for a 7 minute push, with 28 probes. Any major flaws you can point out? I just need help all over. EDIT: Just did the 6 rax to another terran trying to go for banshees. They got it into my base and had a decent force defending, I didn't keep scan up so I couldn't defend my line... Still won. Why does this seem imba to me? That's waaaaaaaaaaay slow for a 4gate. For one when you 4gate you don't need a second gas (for the most part), and you shouldn't go above 20 probes. Warping in at 6.30-7 is extremely late, your goal is to have your first round of units ready by 5.45. For a more refined build, check out the liquipedia page: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush The thing with 4gate is, you have this burst of units with your first 1-2 rounds of production, but that winds down quickly. You need to kill your opponent asap or he will end up having too much stuff compared to you. Regarding your PvT game, if he goes 1rax fe and you don't kill him with your initial 4gate you are pretty dead regardless. Terran will have twice as much your income, therefore twice as much army as you. Him following up with a mass marine timing (sounds like he went up to 6rax before gas which is a TON of marines) doesn't really have much to do with you losing; it's more about the fact that you ended up on one base vs his two. edit: yeah my bad the link was messed up. Thanks aZealot. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
@ IM_Pallypal: that's a late 4 Gate. Ideally you want you first units ready by 5.45 as Teoita says which means the completion of WG research and conversion of Gate to WG by 5.35. You can get by, at lower levels, with your first warp anywhere from 5.45 - 6.00 but anything after that begins to render the 4 gate very ineffective. In SC2 the difference in timings between 6.00 and 7.00 is just huge. Strangely enough, there don't seem to be that many good tutorials of the straight up standard 4 Gate, but I did find this one, after some trawling, which looked decent: Against Terran, you may want to learn the 1 Gate FE or if you want to attack against Terran, the old 3 Gate aggression into expand. 1 Gate FE is best though. Leave the 4 Gate to PvP, IMO. Good luck. | ||
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Dabba
United States182 Posts
Stalkers really arent the best units, but them + Sentry with shield are great vs early marine pressure, later on you're going to want to make more zealots which is fine because you can throw the gas at the collosus. the big thing is you need to know what your opponent is doing in order to act accordingly. I'm not the best with scouting either, esp for hidden expos but, If i dont know whats going on, ill send a probe up to the front to try to check for an expo, and to see what his units look like. You dont want to keep making stalker/sentry expecting another rine push when mass maruaders come knocking on your door next. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Dabba
United States182 Posts
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