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On September 11 2012 06:01 ant885 wrote:Hey there - I'm having some trouble in PvT at mid masters level Basically I play a creator style pvt and have trouble holding onto my third. I try to take it slightly after I scout the terran's third and if he does so at a fairly early but unstandardish time (say 9-10 minutes) I can never seem to hold onto it. http://drop.sc/249198In this replay I thought I'd be safe for sure- his 5racks did little damage and I scouted him taking a third (so no real threat of medi timings), I take mine off 3 gates and col tech with double forge. So I'm just wondering if there's a "standard/safe" time to take the third after the terran does with this style. Is it necessary to get to 6 gates before a third in situations like this (unless they go 1rax double cc), or am I just playing it badly? Thanks
Do you realize that you were still way ahead after he denied your 3rd? You can't expect to match his army, his economy, and be way ahead of tech than him all at the same time. When you go for a double upgrade style (especially the version you're doing where you get colossus and twilight upgrades at the same time), there is no way you can match a terran's economy. You don't need to. Also in that game, the terran's tech was already much further behind than normal (due to this early rax pressure). On top of all of that, even though he had a 3rd cc his scv count was abysmally low, you had like 20 more workers than him at all times.
Essentially, you were playing super greedy and he stopped you from being super super greedy. You still easily won. You actually might have gotten away with the 3rd if you made a few sentries, I don't know why you never remade your sentries.
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How do I defend against marauder-heavy 1-base plays while going for 1-gate-FE myself? I've switched from T to P recently and this is giving me a hard time. Even if I scout it in time I just don't have a clue what to do against it.
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On September 11 2012 06:58 LSF wrote:
How do I defend against marauder-heavy 1-base plays while going for 1-gate-FE myself? I've switched from T to P recently and this is giving me a hard time. Even if I scout it in time I just don't have a clue what to do against it.
What kind of 1 base play are you talking about? Proxy marauder? 2 rax? 3 rax all-in with stim? If you're facing some sort of proxy then obviously you should not put up your expo or cancel it if it's already started, add gateways, and chrono out zealots/stalkers. Against 2 rax, you have some options, if you haven't already used chronos on gateways or spent extra chronos on probes (so I'm talking you've only used 2-3 chronos max), you actually have time to chrono out your warpgate tech and have that ready before the attack can hit and take down your nexus (sometimes you'll have to let your nexus tank a few hits). Or you can also just go up to 3 gateways asap and chrono out gateway units. While a lot of people like sentries early on, I actually find that against early rax pressure it's much easier to avoid sentries altogether and focus on just zealot/stalker. Don't be afraid to pull probes if he's also pulled scvs.
Against a 3 rax stim all-in, sentries in this case are a must. Forcefield is the key to stopping this kind of all-in. Also if you have a forge because you're going for early upgrades, getting 1 or 2 cannons at your choke/ramp is actually really useful for defending.
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Hey, thanks for the quick reply, this helps a lot.
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rsvp thanks for the help, but I don't have any replays.
Anyways, switched to Protoss and it's so much fun! I actually am having a higher winrate on ladder with Protoss than I was with Zerg O___o
I'm a little lost about Zerg lategame. When do I start a stargate? I like doing a 1g third -> robo + twilight -> massive stalker/sentry/immortal army, but as a result I'm never like "oh, time to start my stargate to get mothership in time for broodlords!"
So yeah. How is lategame PvZ best played out? Do you have to win with the 3+ colossus 3 base push/get a lucky vortex in a 1h game, or is it possible to outpower broodlord/corruptor/infestor to get the win? When I played Zerg I lost to basetrades, but that was really it. And fungal + IT + spine dealt with blink stalker baseraces pretty damn well, and I usually defended.
How to play lategame PvZ? Mass archon/colossus/carrier + mothership or can I play a different style that's also effective?
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United States8477 Posts
I could tell you if rsvp would help me out on a little something something. *wink* *wink*
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On September 10 2012 12:42 stille_nacht wrote:
should i scout early with a probe then in case of banshee? or do i just accept the loss if they decide to quick tech
or does it hit before banshee's finish?
well tbh this build outright dies to cloak banshee. you need to scout his base, and run past his bunker with a zealot or something, to see his unit count and if check if the expo is really there. if you suspect 1 base play it will involve banshees like 90% of the time, you can transition out of the 6gate easily just tech instead of building sentries.
or just research halluc, you'll have 1 less sentry and you can fully scout his base with a penix and hallucinate some decent tanking units. i've even had master terrans building vikings vs my hallucinated colossus which came much earlier than possible lol
i'm diamond btw and i have great success with this build in my league
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On September 11 2012 06:58 LSF wrote:
How do I defend against marauder-heavy 1-base plays while going for 1-gate-FE myself? I've switched from T to P recently and this is giving me a hard time. Even if I scout it in time I just don't have a clue what to do against it.
what kind of 1 base plays? with 1gate expo then 2gate i held off all kind of marauder cheeses in diamond. with 3 gate before expo it's even much easier. cancel the expo if needed, zealots and good stalker micro is good enough. or don't hesitate to pull a few probes they're decent vs marauders.
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On September 11 2012 06:35 rsvp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 06:01 ant885 wrote:Hey there - I'm having some trouble in PvT at mid masters level Basically I play a creator style pvt and have trouble holding onto my third. I try to take it slightly after I scout the terran's third and if he does so at a fairly early but unstandardish time (say 9-10 minutes) I can never seem to hold onto it. http://drop.sc/249198In this replay I thought I'd be safe for sure- his 5racks did little damage and I scouted him taking a third (so no real threat of medi timings), I take mine off 3 gates and col tech with double forge. So I'm just wondering if there's a "standard/safe" time to take the third after the terran does with this style. Is it necessary to get to 6 gates before a third in situations like this (unless they go 1rax double cc), or am I just playing it badly? Thanks Do you realize that you were still way ahead after he denied your 3rd? You can't expect to match his army, his economy, and be way ahead of tech than him all at the same time. When you go for a double upgrade style (especially the version you're doing where you get colossus and twilight upgrades at the same time), there is no way you can match a terran's economy. You don't need to. Also in that game, the terran's tech was already much further behind than normal (due to this early rax pressure). On top of all of that, even though he had a 3rd cc his scv count was abysmally low, you had like 20 more workers than him at all times. Essentially, you were playing super greedy and he stopped you from being super super greedy. You still easily won. You actually might have gotten away with the 3rd if you made a few sentries, I don't know why you never remade your sentries.
Thanks for response. Yep I still knew I was ahead, I just thought I'd be able to take my third as well since he was taking it. Holding my third with that creator style has been a bit tricky for me in most games, that was just an example.
So basically it seems with that style I can't expect to match a terran's economy and don't need to, I'm wondering if you know of a "standardish" amount of time I should take my third after he does (i.e. 2-3 mins later or whatever). I realize this would be heavily game dependent, but assuming a standard game with no real damage done to either player.
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United States8477 Posts
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Hey TL. How do i stop a 2rax Pressure (cheese) From a protoss ? I'm going MC's 1 gate FE , When i scouted the 2 rax , what do i transition to ?
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United States8477 Posts
How do you know about/use MC's 1 gate fe without having read the guide? O_O I don't think anywhere else on the net has a bo of it.
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On September 11 2012 18:45 NrGmonk wrote:
How do you know about/use MC's 1 gate fe without having read the guide? O_O I don't think anywhere else on the net has a bo of it.
I think i cross it somewhere on youtube , cant remember tho . But a friend ingame of mine thought me this cause i was repeatedly going FFE against terran and he said it was a risky build , or so he claims. thus , teaching me this build
Edit : How do high tier protoss player tap to their nexus / buildings so quickly ? I've heard about placement hotkeys , where you hotkey a certain area. Is this possible or was my friend just trolling so with me?
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Camera hotkeys, Misuari. For example, in your options menu you can select and set camera keys. For example, in the early game I have F1 (selected through shift+F1) as my ramp, with F2 as my natural ramp/choke when gate expanding v Zerg. Later in the game it becomes, or should become (because I'm still too much of a newb to use camera keys effectively as the game goes on) your primary base camera key. F2 can become a camera key which takes you to your natural, and so on. I would not go overboard with all this stuff at the start, though. Heck, I still have enough trouble either undermaking or overmaking probes and not getting supply blocked. But, yes, look at the options menu and the different hotkey settings possible.
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Italy12247 Posts
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That was a beautiful read, and some great information, thanks! Did you write that, or did some English major write it? 
I suppose I'll just get a stargate around when I get my 3 base production going and am taking a fourth. I believe I saw a post with some math that if you start your fleet beacon once hive starts, you'll have a vortex in time with perfect chronos? I just never know when to add high templar/archons. I love getting DTs for warp prism DT harass, but DT tech =/= HT tech. I suppose, again, once my economy/production stabilizes.
The Protoss "mindset" is completely different from Zerg, but it's still tons of fun. Nothing like not having to worry about getting your ass cheesed/all-inned every game.
General question: ]With SaSe's 2gate aggressive FE, how do I hold 4gate WP? I'll edit in replays in 30 mins or so, but I've defended it once and lost to it once (against bottom masters players). The game I defended it, I sniped the warp prism before it could warp in 4 stalkers, so it was ~1z 6s against 4z, and as a result I traded very well. The game I lost to it, he elevatored into my main and I didn't scout it, so it was a fight that I ended up losing. It was 4gate vs 4gate and I had more income, but I eventually got overrun. Felt like my WG were always on cooldown! D:
The build I do is:
2gate 5 stalker rush -> 37 nexus -> robo if I scout expo or suspect DTs, otherwise I go up to 4gate then robo to deal with all ins.
Do I need to snipe the WP before he warps in/elevators 8 units into my base, or should my 4gate robo be able to outproduce his 4gate?
Thanks for all the help; it's appreciated! And again, I'll edit in replays soon.
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On September 11 2012 19:14 Misuari wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 18:45 NrGmonk wrote:
How do you know about/use MC's 1 gate fe without having read the guide? O_O I don't think anywhere else on the net has a bo of it. Edit : How do high tier protoss player tap to their nexus / buildings so quickly ? I've heard about placement hotkeys , where you hotkey a certain area. Is this possible or was my friend just trolling so with me?
I went into options -> hotkeys -> global, and under "Camera" I set my camera locations to F1-F8. Who uses idle worker anyway? If I need it, I'll press control and click on the icon that's still there in the bottom left of the screen.
About the camera hotkeys:
You'll press Control+FX (where 1<=X<=8), and it will save that camera location. By pressing FX (without control ), it will set the camera back to that location. I set my bases to F1-F8, but am considering using layered camera hotkeys (like in TheCore layout), where I rebind camera 8 to my main warp in, and set the create location to Control+W, and recall would be Shift+W.
Then to warp in I just press Shift+W, W, and then spam warp ins :D
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Ahhhhh so annoying.
What do I do upon scouting CC first? I do MC's 1gate FE, so I end up WAY behind economically it's not even funny. I basically lost the game as soon as he was in the last position second position I scouted. But yeah. If I do a 13 scout and don't find his CC first until I've already gotten a gate, core, and zealot, how can I get back into the game?
Here's the replay:
http://drop.sc/251390
I know that I made mistakes -- I teched way too hard, not even being able to afford to produce. I then got destroyed by a flank, because I had no sentries (mistake I think?)
I could've cancelled the Zealot if I noticed his CC before returning to his natural @3:45. or was more familiar with the timings.
These are all easy to correct with experience (6 games played as Protoss lol), so I just want to know what to do upon scouting that I'm really far behind.
Edit: oops, three posts in a row D:
Also, if I didn't GG in that game, it's because the last 2 games I lost to marine/scv 3 rax all-in where he built a bunker and hid the other 2 rax to make it look like an expand, and the other game was a 1 base spine crawler rush (what the hell), so I was pretty frustrated. "More GG, more skill"
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EPT
