Once the pylons go down, you want to pull any workers from gas (if you have any that are in gas) CB a zealot, and make a forge of your own (unless you have a good reason to believe that you can kill off the rush before it completes, and don't need a cannon of your own, this is more a case of optimization, if you are unsure, just get a forge); when you pull workers, pull about 8, and don't stop them from attacking once your zealot is out--try attacking the pylons that will allow you to get access to the cannons the fastest.
Thanks man, I never considered getting a forge of my own. Lets say I do and his attack gets repelled. What is the best course of action here ? Robo for fast Prism or Phoenixes. Expand into DTs, what do you suggest ?
If he cannons up his main, expand. If he doesn't and tries to get a gate/cyber core, he shouldn't have warpgate nearly as fast as you so you can 4gate or warp prism 4gate. Remember you do lose a lot of mining time so holding it off means you are ahead, but he can still play his way out of it if you let him. If his tech is as fast as yours, play a standard game doing whatever build you usually do.
Always check for proxies and hidden expos, once i ran into a guy that went cannon rush into hidden expand into proxy 2star void ray.
Most annoying cannon rush to deal with is on daybreak I have to pull a probe to chase tell I scout their full base cause it's almost auto win if they get that wall on the top of your minerals. If that goes down is there anyway to hold it off?
On September 10 2012 03:49 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Most annoying cannon rush to deal with is on daybreak I have to pull a probe to chase tell I scout their full base cause it's almost auto win if they get that wall on the top of your minerals. If that goes down is there anyway to hold it off?
People tend to undervalue blocking in cannon rushes. If you micro well, he can't put down buildings. At least, not as fast. In a cannon rush, every second counts. Especially if he's trying to wall in somewhere.
can anyone give me a definitive build order for a 2 base colossus all in? i'm just a plat toss, and not going to lie, the 2 base all-in is appealing to me because i can't really seem to effectively punish greedy terrans with just gateway units :l
On September 08 2012 13:42 Misuari wrote: http://drop.sc/248309 . Just finished a game with a silver few minutes ago. I'm Misuari , a SEA Bronze player . Can anyone kindly tell me what i can do to win this game? Note : I didnt expand cause i was continously being harrass . Im just a bronze player so please be nice , im still learning this game .
Hi - I took a quick look at your game, I won't bother going past the 12min mark because the game was lost already by then unfortunately.
First of all, your opening was generally quite good, though its commendable that you are willing to open nexus first - its definitely not recommended on a 4 player map like entombed, any early pool will kill you.
Secondly.. the overlord at your main ramp.. ^^; Kill it with your stalker! You pretty much showed your entire hand since you built everything under it :p
Since it looked like you were going for the sentry/immortal timing attack, there's a couple things you need to incorporate, you definitely should at least get the +1 attack (especially since you already have the forge from FFE). Work on improving chronoboost usage, nexus energy just too high. Also, if you have that many sentries, generally getting mainly stalkers is the way to go, you warped in a few too many zealots initially.
Once the pylons go down, you want to pull any workers from gas (if you have any that are in gas) CB a zealot, and make a forge of your own (unless you have a good reason to believe that you can kill off the rush before it completes, and don't need a cannon of your own, this is more a case of optimization, if you are unsure, just get a forge); when you pull workers, pull about 8, and don't stop them from attacking once your zealot is out--try attacking the pylons that will allow you to get access to the cannons the fastest.
Thanks man, I never considered getting a forge of my own. Lets say I do and his attack gets repelled. What is the best course of action here ? Robo for fast Prism or Phoenixes. Expand into DTs, what do you suggest ?
You can do pretty much whatever you want depending on how much later his core/wg is than yours. The only thing you can't really do is 4 gate into a cannon'ed ramp -- but this really depends on the timings, i.e. if his sentry wouldn't pop before your first warp-in. I would not recommend DT's unless you're going to aggressively expand and anticipate a 4gate.
Hopefully you kept your probe alive in his base and are able to scout for this info, which is important -- but more importantly, free. His likely follow up will be a 4g/defensive 3gate X.
On September 10 2012 08:48 stille_nacht wrote: can anyone give me a definitive build order for a 2 base colossus all in? i'm just a plat toss, and not going to lie, the 2 base all-in is appealing to me because i can't really seem to effectively punish greedy terrans with just gateway units :l
i found MC's 6gate to be really effective- the only times i lost were when we avoided each other and i lost the base trade, or when i miscontrolled badly (move instead of amove or something like that). quite easy build, you need decent micro for it and it hits much faster than a coloxen allin
if the terra is building the bunkers right at the top of the ramp it is not viable though
should i scout early with a probe then in case of banshee? or do i just accept the loss if they decide to quick tech or does it hit before banshee's finish?
On September 08 2012 13:42 Misuari wrote: http://drop.sc/248309 . Just finished a game with a silver few minutes ago. I'm Misuari , a SEA Bronze player . Can anyone kindly tell me what i can do to win this game? Note : I didnt expand cause i was continously being harrass . Im just a bronze player so please be nice , im still learning this game .
Hi - I took a quick look at your game, I won't bother going past the 12min mark because the game was lost already by then unfortunately.
First of all, your opening was generally quite good, though its commendable that you are willing to open nexus first - its definitely not recommended on a 4 player map like entombed, any early pool will kill you.
Secondly.. the overlord at your main ramp.. ^^; Kill it with your stalker! You pretty much showed your entire hand since you built everything under it :p
Since it looked like you were going for the sentry/immortal timing attack, there's a couple things you need to incorporate, you definitely should at least get the +1 attack (especially since you already have the forge from FFE). Work on improving chronoboost usage, nexus energy just too high. Also, if you have that many sentries, generally getting mainly stalkers is the way to go, you warped in a few too many zealots initially.
That's about it for now, gl & hf!!
Ahhhh didn't thought about that. Thank you man! So if i just play defensively and win any big engagement , i should be ahead than him ? And yes , i agree that zealots was very very bad as the roaches can kite them very quickly . Still , thank you for the tips ^.^ Much appreciated
On September 10 2012 03:49 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Most annoying cannon rush to deal with is on daybreak I have to pull a probe to chase tell I scout their full base cause it's almost auto win if they get that wall on the top of your minerals. If that goes down is there anyway to hold it off?
best follow up is 1zlot then getting a nexus at third so cant be cannoned then try to out 4gate him
On September 10 2012 12:42 stille_nacht wrote: should i scout early with a probe then in case of banshee? or do i just accept the loss if they decide to quick tech or does it hit before banshee's finish?
You should never 6gate if you don't know his exact cc timing for that reason, 6gate is used only against fast expanding terrans. If with your probe or zealot/stalker poke you don't see a cc at around 5 minutes or before (and even then it can be hard to get the info against, say, a 1rax marauder expand), you need a robo. You can still try to bust him with 2 immortals and 6gates worth of units though, it's a somewhat similar build. Depending on the variation, a 6gate can hit slightly faster than when 1rax fe->banshee would have cloak, or just when it finishes. In this case you will be pretty much even as you will kill a lot of his stuff (he has no real army to speak of), but you will probably also lose a good deal of units and probes to the cloak banshee. If you 6gate blindly you will always die to any 111 build (both 111 expand and 111 allins) that gets cloak, since his banshees will hit way before you are ready to move out and try to kill him
@poster above me: hiding an extra nexus somewhere slows you down far too much, no point in doing it especially when you can just defend your own base easily if you know how to. Also "get another nexus of your own and then out 4gate him" makes no sense, there's no way in hell you can 4gate him fast enough if you have to start from scratch at a new base. Besides, as everyone has said, 4gate may not be the best response to defending a cannon rush because he's likely to cannon his ramp.
I have no replays because I'm a moron, but how do you deal with mech in PvT? I did a 3gate robo -> third -> 7gate immortal -> fourth -> double robo 13gate chargelot/archon/immortal, but my army just instantly died every engagement. It was about an equal econ game, and since I'm new to Protoss I didn't know what to make. Zealots get roasted by all factory units except lone tanks, Archons get eaten alive by thors/tanks, immortals did okay, stalkers suck.... I asked the guy after and he said I should do something like 5SG carriers off of all bases on my side of the map, but...vikings? I don't know. Help is appreciated!
On September 11 2012 05:19 Mavvie wrote: I have no replays because I'm a moron, but how do you deal with mech in PvT? I did a 3gate robo -> third -> 7gate immortal -> fourth -> double robo 13gate chargelot/archon/immortal, but my army just instantly died every engagement. It was about an equal econ game, and since I'm new to Protoss I didn't know what to make. Zealots get roasted by all factory units except lone tanks, Archons get eaten alive by thors/tanks, immortals did okay, stalkers suck.... I asked the guy after and he said I should do something like 5SG carriers off of all bases on my side of the map, but...vikings? I don't know. Help is appreciated!
This is why you need replay, because you're obviously doing something else wrong. Before you get to late game and maxed 200/200 armies, pretty much everything besides sentries and HT counters mech. If he maxes though you'll need carriers, carriers trade pretty evenly with vikings cost for cost.
On September 11 2012 05:19 Mavvie wrote: I have no replays because I'm a moron, but how do you deal with mech in PvT? I did a 3gate robo -> third -> 7gate immortal -> fourth -> double robo 13gate chargelot/archon/immortal, but my army just instantly died every engagement. It was about an equal econ game, and since I'm new to Protoss I didn't know what to make. Zealots get roasted by all factory units except lone tanks, Archons get eaten alive by thors/tanks, immortals did okay, stalkers suck.... I asked the guy after and he said I should do something like 5SG carriers off of all bases on my side of the map, but...vikings? I don't know. Help is appreciated!
This is why you need replay, because you're obviously doing something else wrong. Before you get to late game and maxed 200/200 armies, pretty much everything besides sentries and HT counters mech. If he maxes though you'll need carriers, carriers trade pretty evenly with vikings cost for cost.
Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm sure I am. I maxed out on chargelot/archon/immortal multiple times and eventually died to his counterattack (damn snowball effect!) What should I do then? 2 base all-in? I don't know the weaknesses of mech because I've never seen it before. Ok good to know about carriers being good against vikings.
rsvp, what do you do upon scouting mech? Attack? What unit composition/how many bases? Or do you just try to max out on carriers?
On September 11 2012 05:19 Mavvie wrote: I have no replays because I'm a moron, but how do you deal with mech in PvT? I did a 3gate robo -> third -> 7gate immortal -> fourth -> double robo 13gate chargelot/archon/immortal, but my army just instantly died every engagement. It was about an equal econ game, and since I'm new to Protoss I didn't know what to make. Zealots get roasted by all factory units except lone tanks, Archons get eaten alive by thors/tanks, immortals did okay, stalkers suck.... I asked the guy after and he said I should do something like 5SG carriers off of all bases on my side of the map, but...vikings? I don't know. Help is appreciated!
This is why you need replay, because you're obviously doing something else wrong. Before you get to late game and maxed 200/200 armies, pretty much everything besides sentries and HT counters mech. If he maxes though you'll need carriers, carriers trade pretty evenly with vikings cost for cost.
Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm sure I am. I maxed out on chargelot/archon/immortal multiple times and eventually died to his counterattack (damn snowball effect!) What should I do then? 2 base all-in? I don't know the weaknesses of mech because I've never seen it before. Ok good to know about carriers being good against vikings.
rsvp, what do you do upon scouting mech? Attack? What unit composition/how many bases? Or do you just try to max out on carriers?
I think you missed my point. I can't help you without a replay. You can do anything you want against mech and it can work. There is nothing wrong with chargelot/archon/immortal. Attacking off of 2 bases is good, macroing off 5 bases is good as well.
Hey there - I'm having some trouble in PvT at mid masters level
Basically I play a creator style pvt and have trouble holding onto my third. I try to take it slightly after I scout the terran's third and if he does so at a fairly early but unstandardish time (say 9-10 minutes) I can never seem to hold onto it.
In this replay I thought I'd be safe for sure- his 5racks did little damage and I scouted him taking a third (so no real threat of medi timings), I take mine off 3 gates and col tech with double forge. So I'm just wondering if there's a "standard/safe" time to take the third after the terran does with this style. Is it necessary to get to 6 gates before a third in situations like this (unless they go 1rax double cc), or am I just playing it badly?
On September 10 2012 08:48 stille_nacht wrote: can anyone give me a definitive build order for a 2 base colossus all in? i'm just a plat toss, and not going to lie, the 2 base all-in is appealing to me because i can't really seem to effectively punish greedy terrans with just gateway units :l
Well it's not a build order but the one I've watched squirtle do basically goes like
1gate expand 2 more gateways or robo (robo first is slightly earlier/stronger all in, but riskier vs naked marine pressure etc) obs/robo bay when robo finished 4 more gates when first col start
get double gas @ 7 minutes and chrono probes til col tech(then chrono col) or 16 on each base + 6in gas (45 total with proxy pylon probe) and he gets 1 sentry before staring col den then 2 more when he has the gas for that+constant col
EPT
