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On September 05 2012 04:06 SidewinderSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:31 Abusion wrote:On September 05 2012 01:37 ThatSweatyNerd wrote:
Am I the only one who tries to all-in when i see a zerg FE? I think it is a great way to beat zerg mid game. You mean 15 pool 16 hatch or straight up 15 hatch? If he 15 hatches just cannon rush because he's an idiot. If he 15 pool 16 hatches he can hold off any all-in with correct macro and scouting up until master. (Although immortal/sentry all-in is tough). Plenty of good Zergs can hatch first and still hold a cannon rush no problem. Patrol a drone at the ramp and use a couple drones to stop cannons from going down. Cannon rushing most Zergs in high Master doesn't actually accomplish anything, unless they don't understand how to handle it.
Plenty of good Protosses don't actually know how to cannon rush properly. Cannon rushing most Zergs in high Grand Master... doesn't happen because no Zergs in high Grand Master 15 hatch because of cannon rush.
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On September 04 2012 21:14 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:17 Absurd Bunny wrote:
Another question i want to ask that i forgot:
I have a lot of problems in PvT where almost no matter what build i do (maybe except 4gate, but i mostly never do this) i mostly try to fe, but about 7 mins he gets marine marauder army with really dfast stim and no medicacs, and does a one base all in, and i lose all the time, and i dont know how to counter it.
If i was doing a 1 gate fe, or a ffe vs terran and he does that, how do i counter? If i scout it early with ffe, ill put 1 or 2 more pylons at expo and build cannons, but if i 1 gate fe, stalkers zealots and sentries die, but if i build an immortal will i have a survivable defence? Replay? It sounds like they're going 3 Rax Stim which is holdable with a 1 Gate FE as long as you hit your timings correctly and hit good Force Fields during the battle. You're going to want a mostly Zealot/Sentry force by the time they attack: Pop a Guardian Shield when you want to engage and then Force Field behind their army so that they can't retreat from your Zealots. Do not try to cut their army in half with Force Fields, you want to trap it. Do not build too many Stalkers, you don't need them against this strategy. Do engage near a choke that doesn't need many Force Fields to block off. Do pull all the Probes at your natural, you're up a base so you can lose all of them and still be ahead.  MC& - Learn this inside out if you want to learn to 1 Gate FE. It sounds like your timings are off if you're losing to 3 Rax Stim, you should have more than enough with good Force Fields.
I don't think its the timings that I do wrong, but I think its the units that I build are incorrect and I don't seem to have enough. I'll try to study into this more, and try to be able to counter it better.
But, when I scout, what is an indication that he would do this build against me? I know that if he's on one base it's an indication, but If he does the cloak banshee siege tank marine mix (I think that's one base, correct me if I'm wrong, I've never done or seen that build before other than tournaments) that could be another one, but I would be building too much stalkers and if I get the units wrong I lose either way. I don't think I should make a robo that early, sacrificing the making of more gateways and units for an observer...
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Hey, i'm a platinum Terran on EU who is very frustrated with the TvP MU so I decided a few days ago it was time to stop whining on forums and switch race. I haven't started playing 1v1's yet, I am still playing Terran on that, but I am playing 2v2/3v3 as protoss to learn the macro mechanics before I switch completely. I have a huge problem though, I don't know what to do. Since I have no experience with the race, I don't know what to do, it's just like when I start playing after a long break, i just gather resources and build what I can afford, not like when I play Terran and know exactly when I get my medivacs or what I should respond with when I see my opponent do X. I feel like i'm a little child at an amusement park and don't know which rollercoaster I want to go for first. It's just too much in other words. So yeah, where do I start, when do I get my gases, when do I expand etc.
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Hi can someone post me the link or the build of 4 Gates? I know it's a cheap build but I start playing Protoss (I played Terran and Zerg before) but for some reason it's very confusing so I want some build let me get comfortable with basic Chronoboost stuff.
Also I looked around and I can't find any decent guide and some noted about Patch thing so I'm not sure if they are still viable or not.
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My PvT opening is:
1 gate + 1 core, 1 zealot and 1 stalker with warp gate and around 22 supply expand into maing 2 gates (after making nexus i first make those two gates without making any probes) + adding second gas + adding robo and then fast colosus with double upgrades and charge. Then I secure a third and get ht's usually with stopping colosus production at 3. Do you think i should have ht's at 14 min ingame time?
And maybe someone can say what they think of my opening. I am yesterday promoted to master ^.^
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Italy12246 Posts
If you go zealot/stalker you expand between 26 and 30 supply, otherwise it means you are cutting an insane number of probes.
Other than that it sounds as standard as it gets.
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On September 05 2012 22:34 topschutter wrote:
My PvT opening is:
1 gate + 1 core, 1 zealot and 1 stalker with warp gate and around 22 supply expand into maing 2 gates (after making nexus i first make those two gates without making any probes) + adding second gas + adding robo and then fast colosus with double upgrades and charge. Then I secure a third and get ht's usually with stopping colosus production at 3. Do you think i should have ht's at 14 min ingame time?
And maybe someone can say what they think of my opening. I am yesterday promoted to master ^.^
You lose a lot with your opening. 22 supply expand is really undesirable if u get zealot+stalker as you cut probes earlier than you want to and you let the terran scout your expansion for free. Try doing the same thing but just build a nexus later as soon as u hit 400 minerals while making probes.
Secondly, you don't need to cut probes to make +2 gateways. That's another probecut and it hurts your chances to win by a lot.
Thirdly, depending on what you scout, you can get robo before +2 gateways. This is situational but often times a faster observer to know what the terran is doing asap is a lot better. I guess with colo style it can help to get faster colo also.
4th, getting a 3rd base is risky in PvT, if you take a fast 3rd base you should just expect that in a lot of the games the terran will kill it and you should just accept the 400minerals loss if that happens. Worst case scenario is that terran abuses your lack of blink and kills a lot of probes + your 3rd base. I don't think you need to change this, just mentioning this for u to be aware.
Small tips:
-never get ht if terran is still on 2bases,
-cancel your 1st zealot if you scout the terran doing 1rax expand (scout cc or it still could be gasless allin)
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Italy12246 Posts
1) Against some rushes (2rax reactor first) you do need to cut probes
2) Going robo before gates isn't done based on scouting, it's a gamble that terran won't go for something like hellion drop or cc into 5rax marine. Both can be held with a faster robo but it's really tough as you will be 1-2 units down, and all the units you can possibly get are absolutely necessary in that spot.
3) No, there's plenty of fast 3 base builds that can hold it comfortably. There's nothing risky about taking a third in PvT (assuming T has expanded of course) after you hold off his medivac timing, and with some builds even before.
4) If you cancel your zealot you need to 100% make sure he isn't eng bay blocking you. If he isn't and you confirm a 1rax fe, you can actually cancel your stalker as well and just expand at around 22 ish with no units.
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hey guys im curious what is the most common build in pvt right now. I am interrested especially about the plan for midgame. I was doing the creator prime double forge style but i dont feel very comfortable with it. I was thinking about some fast two base colosis into 10min third or chargelots into third. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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Anyone know some aggressive 2 base collosus builds in PvZ that can lead to taking a third. I know the 2 base collosus PvT(squirtle build) but I am looking for something similar in PvZ. I am not comfortable with taking a third off sentry+immortal and not harassing because the timings in plat/diamond are really weird (basically...either way too early, or way too late)and I can't really judge when he's going to attack me. So I want to find an aggressive collosus build to put on pressure+take a third.
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Can anyone give me some advice when playing PvZ? I'm currently having a downward trend playing against Zerg. At first I thought I was doing fine after losing a PvZ to Roach 12 Minute Rush and then I corrected my mistakes to win against any Roach builds, but now it's looking like Zerg is completely capable of keeping me too contained and denying my scouting (Spores). When the lategame arrives, I just can't keep up with the Zerg who can remax faster than I can move up the ramp to his natural. Any suggestions?
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Italy12246 Posts
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Thanks for this. I'll be a bit more specific:
I can scout about 10 minutes after Robo and deny any harassment until I lose scouting. Until I lose scouting, though, it's problem of having a strong enough army to tackle his base while he's vulnerable during an expanson. His Roaches will deny my Zealots and his Lings deal with my Stalker and Immortals. However, I do manage to destroy that army, his Spines deny most everything left and he simply produces Lings or Roaches to finish of the remainder. By the time I lose scouting as a result of Spores, he has placed enough Spines to deny any future decent harassment or reduce any effective assaults.
The rest is the standard Lategame Omega Battle where Zerg shows up with a powerful composition and Protoss shows up with a powerful composition with a game-deciding Mothership. Ultimately it's down to whether or not Zerg knows how to deal with Vortex or not. Even an Archon Toilet is pointless if Zerg knows how pump Infested Terrans into it and Zerg has so many resources a Roach Remax is completely viable afterwards. I'm not saying it's imba or anything, just saying it's very challenging for me at this state.
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Italy12246 Posts
I still don't quite understand what you mean, so please post a replay.
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Hey guys. Can someone please take a look at this PvT replay and explain to me wtf I did wrong? I feel that I was ahead in workers and expos the entire game. Once I got the deathball with templars and colossi, I hit with every storm and he still managed to come out ahead.  Some feedback would be much appreciated.
http://drop.sc/248174
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Italy12246 Posts
When you secure your third you invest into a lot of cannons, which are not that useful vs terran drops since they are easily sniped and don't do that much damage vs stimmed bio with medivac support. It's better to have pylons/observers spotting common drop paths. This, combined with the fact that you suicide a few zealots and a warp prism for nothing basically, mean that your overall supply is a bit lower than it should be. You also add extra production a little late, so you end up floating money for a period of time.
During the first engagement at your third, the terran traded extremely favourably because your army composition was bad. No sentries (you need them at least for guardian shield), and way more stalkers than you will ever need, you need 12 tops to protect 3 colossi, and when in lategame you do go above 3 you usually complement that blink stalker protection with a few storms and archons, not with a high stalker count since marauders just eat them for breakfast.
In your second engagement again you have far too many stalkers, no archons, no blink, and zealots being stuck in the back when they need to be in the front. This means that your 18 zealots are more or less wasted supply as they end up not contributing to the fight at all, your stalkers just get destroyed so it doesn't matter if he doesn't try to dodge storms.
Because he has less scv's than you do, he should win every max vs max supply, so you should only engage when you have a huge bank and a high gateway count, to instantly remax and clear off the rest of his units with your second wave.
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On September 05 2012 19:19 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:01 M7Jagger wrote:
Hey, i'm a platinum Terran on EU who is very frustrated with the TvP MU so I decided a few days ago it was time to stop whining on forums and switch race. I haven't started playing 1v1's yet, I am still playing Terran on that, but I am playing 2v2/3v3 as protoss to learn the macro mechanics before I switch completely. I have a huge problem though, I don't know what to do. Since I have no experience with the race, I don't know what to do, it's just like when I start playing after a long break, i just gather resources and build what I can afford, not like when I play Terran and know exactly when I get my medivacs or what I should respond with when I see my opponent do X. I feel like i'm a little child at an amusement park and don't know which rollercoaster I want to go for first. It's just too much in other words. So yeah, where do I start, when do I get my gases, when do I expand etc. It really depends what style you want to play in each match-up. Liquipedia is a good starting point, we've put a lot of work into the http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Portal:Protoss_Strategy section recently and it's a lot better (and more up-to-date) than the equivalent Zerg and Terran sections!
To Sated and your Protoss Strategy cohort, many thanks. Trying to learn Protoss atm and your current, relevant, and accurate builds/strategies are greatly appreciated.
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EPT
