On August 05 2012 07:33 manicsquare wrote: What are some reads you can make in PvZ to see if their going a stephano 12 min roach push or mutas?
5th and 6th gas at their third; if they are going for a roach timing they won't have them, while they are needed for any kind of tech. Also a high ling count and just one evolution chamber might be tells (usually infestor/ling uses two evo chambers).
On August 05 2012 07:33 manicsquare wrote: What are some reads you can make in PvZ to see if their going a stephano 12 min roach push or mutas?
5th and 6th gas at their third; if they are going for a roach timing they won't have them, while they are needed for any kind of tech. Also a high ling count and just one evolution chamber might be tells (usually infestor/ling uses two evo chambers).
This is all accurate, but I want to add something: a lot of high level Zergs have been taking the gases at their expansions first, so they could have 4 gases from their natural/third and 0 in their main. There are some other reasons for this, too, but the misinformation is pretty clutch because Protoss needs an air scout to find out the truth. So check all 6 geysers, if you don't have defining information on the situation.
On August 05 2012 22:49 KaiserJohan wrote: How do you play PvT on Antiga?
I find the map extremely hard to play against drops and both collossus tech and templar tech have severe disadvantages on that map.
Be ready for the push at around 10-11 minute mark, with stalkers in your main, ready to take down the drops. Keep a observer beneath the ramp to your natural, so you can scout his army in time for your stalkers to get down and help, if he choses to push with his whole army at the front. I always get a Twilight Council before the push, so that blink is ready soon after the push. When a drop comes you can easily blink up and kill the drop. This works when you're on 3 bases, but later you can start placing cannons and high templars around your expos.
On August 05 2012 22:49 KaiserJohan wrote: How do you play PvT on Antiga?
I find the map extremely hard to play against drops and both collossus tech and templar tech have severe disadvantages on that map.
I channel my inner MC and 7gate almost every PvT on there actually :D That, or 3gate aggression into some other 2base timing, usually chargelot/archon for me.
On August 05 2012 22:49 KaiserJohan wrote: How do you play PvT on Antiga?
I find the map extremely hard to play against drops and both collossus tech and templar tech have severe disadvantages on that map.
Be ready for the push at around 10-11 minute mark, with stalkers in your main, ready to take down the drops. Keep a observer beneath the ramp to your natural, so you can scout his army in time for your stalkers to get down and help, if he choses to push with his whole army at the front. I always get a Twilight Council before the push, so that blink is ready soon after the push. When a drop comes you can easily blink up and kill the drop. This works when you're on 3 bases, but later you can start placing cannons and high templars around your expos.
Hope it helped
Last game I went collosus into blink and then +1/+1. He sat for outside my nat (spotted with obs). I had 4-5 ish stalkers and 1-2 zeals in my main, rest of my army in natural. He simply loaded up his whole army in medivac and dropped my main, which killed my small force and then buildings and abit of my army as it funnelled into my main to defend. Collossus of course has their stupid pathing but I managed to keep them alive. Still he killed so much and the second I move out he drops again my main with like 5 loaded medivacs.
On August 05 2012 22:49 KaiserJohan wrote: How do you play PvT on Antiga?
I find the map extremely hard to play against drops and both collossus tech and templar tech have severe disadvantages on that map.
Be ready for the push at around 10-11 minute mark, with stalkers in your main, ready to take down the drops. Keep a observer beneath the ramp to your natural, so you can scout his army in time for your stalkers to get down and help, if he choses to push with his whole army at the front. I always get a Twilight Council before the push, so that blink is ready soon after the push. When a drop comes you can easily blink up and kill the drop. This works when you're on 3 bases, but later you can start placing cannons and high templars around your expos.
Hope it helped
Last game I went collosus into blink and then +1/+1. He sat for outside my nat (spotted with obs). I had 4-5 ish stalkers and 1-2 zeals in my main, rest of my army in natural. He simply loaded up his whole army in medivac and dropped my main, which killed my small force and then buildings and abit of my army as it funnelled into my main to defend. Collossus of course has their stupid pathing but I managed to keep them alive. Still he killed so much and the second I move out he drops again my main with like 5 loaded medivacs.
You need to make 2 observers. One following his army and one beneath your ramp. (I always make 2 observers vs t on any map) When you see his army coming, prepare your stalkers. If you see him load all his units in medivacs with your observers, you should easily be able to snipe one of the medivacs, and then your army should be able to clean it up easily. Don't keep zealots with your stalkers, your stalkers aren't there to kill the units only to snipe the drop. You need all the zealots in your main army, if he pushes your nat. Try this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 Works great for me, against the early drops.
About him dropping when you move out: After the first push from T I use one of my observers for patrolling outside my main spotting for drops. When you push your stalker count should be fairly high. On Antiga Shipyard, you should be able to blink up if you spot it in time, and snipe almost all the medivacs. From there your stalkers can almost kill the remaining force without support.
IF you're already close to his base when he drops, base trade him. But the real problem is the damage you took in the beginning.
On August 05 2012 22:49 KaiserJohan wrote: How do you play PvT on Antiga?
I find the map extremely hard to play against drops and both collossus tech and templar tech have severe disadvantages on that map.
Be ready for the push at around 10-11 minute mark, with stalkers in your main, ready to take down the drops. Keep a observer beneath the ramp to your natural, so you can scout his army in time for your stalkers to get down and help, if he choses to push with his whole army at the front. I always get a Twilight Council before the push, so that blink is ready soon after the push. When a drop comes you can easily blink up and kill the drop. This works when you're on 3 bases, but later you can start placing cannons and high templars around your expos.
Hope it helped
Last game I went collosus into blink and then +1/+1. He sat for outside my nat (spotted with obs). I had 4-5 ish stalkers and 1-2 zeals in my main, rest of my army in natural. He simply loaded up his whole army in medivac and dropped my main, which killed my small force and then buildings and abit of my army as it funnelled into my main to defend. Collossus of course has their stupid pathing but I managed to keep them alive. Still he killed so much and the second I move out he drops again my main with like 5 loaded medivacs.
You need to make 2 observers. One following his army and one beneath your ramp. (I always make 2 observers vs t on any map) When you see his army coming, prepare your stalkers. If you see him load all his units in medivacs with your observers, you should easily be able to snipe one of the medivacs, and then your army should be able to clean it up easily. Don't keep zealots with your stalkers, your stalkers aren't there to kill the units only to snipe the drop. You need all the zealots in your main army, if he pushes your nat. Try this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 Works great for me, against the early drops.
About him dropping when you move out: After the first push from T I use one of my observers for patrolling outside my main spotting for drops. When you push your stalker count should be fairly high. On Antiga Shipyard, you should be able to blink up if you spot it in time, and snipe almost all the medivacs. From there your stalkers can almost kill the remaining force without support.
IF you're already close to his base when he drops, base trade him. But the real problem is the damage you took in the beginning.
Trailing an army with an observer is a reliable way to get it scanned and snapped in half regularly. I'd just keep one outside the natural/third and the second patrolling outside my main from the start for drops.
On August 05 2012 04:39 Aynophae wrote: What do you tosses think about colossi-less PvT? I use to get up to 3 colossi and then transition into HT, but is it possible to be safe going straight to HT+storm? I think it may be very vulnerable to 10-12 minute attacks, is it worth trying?
Dude of course !
I open charge storm in all my PvT. I'm so confident in this build I haven't yet open colossus in any of my games before.
I basically go gate FE, robo for 2 obs then additional gates then at 7 mins I get twilight then templar.
By 10 minutes I have storm and charge.
I started using this build when I made platinum and kept on losing to my friends MMM timing push. Couple of months later I made diamond :3
This is a powerful PvZ stratagy that counters any sort of early aggression, allowing you to safely grab a 3rd. Air superiority + scouting is key for defending early roach play and muta play. Once you scout their tech and what they're producing, build the appropriate unit composition. Also, get a mothership out as quick as possible.
On July 29 2012 02:33 StaraCroft wrote: Does anyone have a good idea how to play against random. I've been using my PvR games to practice new BO's - basically abuse them as my own personal very easy AI, but that's the best idea I got how to deal with them. I think it would probably be some variant of 4gate, proxy Warp Prism maybe?
I would appreciate any input, but could you assume last scout on Condemed Ridge, to weed out the builds that require your 9 scout to arrive before the end of times :'(
Against a random player, I personally go for the 1 gate expand, with my initial gate and pylon at the natural. The build takes enough time to open that you'll probably scout your opponent before you can drop the nexus. If you scout a zerg or terran, continue with the 1 gate expand and drop 3 more gates. If you scout a protoss, skip the nexus and continue with your regular PvP strategy.
This is a bit risky if your opponent is a protoss player, since your structures will be on the low ground but it is still relatively easy to defend. Just postion yourself on cliffs and other strategically favorable spots.
EPT
