EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 298
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Astronomer
2 Posts
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
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Craizyfists
United Kingdom19 Posts
On August 01 2012 01:43 Astronomer wrote: As a new protoss, and sc2 player, I was wondering what are a few good builds to start with for each matchup? Do something like a 3 gate robo in every matchup. If you're new to the game try not to overcomplicate things by using different builds. The 4 gate gets scouted and stopped alot these days it seems. The 3 gate robo will allow you to get some gates up, and a robo for obs for scouting (also incase they go for cloaked banshee/dt rush). Get a forge up because you don't wanna get destroyed in battles because of upgrades. I'd generally say do the 3 gate robo, then expand, add a forge then just keep adding gateways when your economy gets going really good (never stop building probes) then just keep warping in and adding pylons so you dont supply block. Then go attack once you have a big army. | ||
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Craizyfists
United Kingdom19 Posts
On August 01 2012 15:49 Roadog wrote: If I open with 3 Stalker PvP on, say, Ohana, how do I react if I find that the opponent is turtling behind sentry/immortal on 1 base? If they are turtling and you feel they're not gonna attack any time soon, start expanding, then build zealot sentry immortal yourself. By the time they do attack you're gonna be like 2/3 base vs 1 so you'll have the same sort of army composition, only with more production facilities with a better economy. | ||
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
On August 01 2012 15:54 Craizyfists wrote: If they are turtling and you feel they're not gonna attack any time soon, start expanding, then build zealot sentry immortal yourself. By the time they do attack you're gonna be like 2/3 base vs 1 so you'll have the same sort of army composition, only with more production facilities with a better economy. Thanks for the advice. Thing is, I usually assume cheese if they turtle on 1 base with that comp. I was unsure as to whether to force the issue and 4gate, or to expand and risk being beaten by a rush. | ||
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StaraCroft
Austria292 Posts
On August 01 2012 09:14 Indrium wrote: If one goes blink/obs and discovers a phoenix/robo player, what's the proper response? I thought I could expand but then I died to 3 gate+immortals+an unreasonable number of phoenixes Don't overmake stalkers. 3-4 per base is enough, otherwise you just get rolled by immortals. If you're expanding and it looks like he's going for an all-in, build a forge and get cannons at your natural. Go sentry/zealot from there on. The most common mistake is to think that blink builds beat phoenix builds like rock beats scissors, when all decent pheonix builds deal with blink extremely well. Whatever you do, don't try to blink in his base. If you go for a blink all-in he should have enough sentries to hold while he kills your pobes with phoenix. If you wait for robo or hallucination, his ground army should beat yours. Expanding and going for late game is your best option. | ||
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Omnibrad
United States29 Posts
On August 01 2012 16:00 Roadog wrote: Thanks for the advice. Thing is, I usually assume cheese if they turtle on 1 base with that comp. I was unsure as to whether to force the issue and 4gate, or to expand and risk being beaten by a rush. Generally, an Immortal/Sentry combination is going to be very strong at holding the ramp into the main. If you attempt a 4-Gate against such a style you will find that a good player will punish you with strong FF usage when you try to push in. If you were to go for some sort of aggressive style, I would highly recommend doing it through Warp Prism to dodge his choke - Warp Prism 4 Gate and Immortal drops can be very strong. However attacking is still riskier than your other options. Your best bet is to quickly expand and then immediately throw down a Robo for safety. You have map control until he decides to stop turtling, so hold on to the watchtower. If he doesn't move out, and you suspect cheese, keep Stalkers near your minerals to prevent Warp Prism or Phoenix harass. | ||
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budsoet
3 Posts
If anyone have the time to watch the replay and give me some pointers on where to improve that would be great! The terran-player used PF instead of orbital when expanding(not the natural). Any tips on dealing with PF? I find it hard to harass when playing a terran with many bases and mostly PF Replay: http://drop.sc/232636 edit: Added a second replay: http://drop.sc/232652 | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-268602.jpg) My usual opening nowdays is Hero's Phoenix opener in PvP. The opponent managed to scout it and responded with double Stargate and pure Phoenix, and all this game I have no clue how to fight it. Please forgive me for building every tech possible under the sun from 1 base. I think next time I do DT Archons and Stalker based army and try to kill him with that before I lose all my probes. What should I do in the situation? | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On August 02 2012 18:20 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: I was rocked yesterday: My usual opening nowdays is Hero's Phoenix opener in PvP. The opponent managed to scout it and responded with double Stargate and pure Phoenix, and all this game I have no clue how to fight it. Please forgive me for building every tech possible under the sun from 1 base. I think next time I do DT Archons and Stalker based army and try to kill him with that before I lose all my probes. What should I do in the situation? In Phoenix mirrors, whoever has the most phoenixes wins. Cutting phoenixes for other units at any point is considered suicide as your opponent will just fly in with a superior phoenix count, kill all your army and then proceed to lift and kill all your ground forces. | ||
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scsequeL
47 Posts
http://drop.sc/232704 | ||
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Milsberry
United States18 Posts
On August 02 2012 22:22 scsequeL wrote: thought i did everything right against mutas but it seems impossible to take expansions, any suggestions ? http://drop.sc/232704 I'm at work and can't view the replay but I've found the best way to beat mutas is to take a super fast 3rd. Obviously don't do this if the zerg is 2basing. Throw down double stargates and chrono out phoenixes. Can also go for +1 air attack and the + range if need be. If he keeps going mutas you should be able to chrono enough out and get upgrades in order to crush him. Then go for a huge counter attack. I'm only a high diamond P (facing masters like 25% of the time) but I've found this strategy works a lot better for me than going blink stalkers and high temps. Either can work but constantly blinking between bases can be a huge hassle and can really throw you off your game. User was warned for this post | ||
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Thamel
United States16 Posts
On August 02 2012 22:22 scsequeL wrote: thought i did everything right against mutas but it seems impossible to take expansions, any suggestions ? http://drop.sc/232704 What is with that FFE wall? Looks super bad against just about anything zerg can do on 2 base. The cannon doesn't even protect either of your big buildings. The biggest thing I saw was that you need to be more diligent with your observer scouting. Just shift queue it to each hatchery so you get a spot off on your opponents tech for sure. Also, I wouldn't make more than 2 immortals until I see a roach. The defense of your 3rd against speedlings went badly because you were always a warp in behind as you seemed to want to warp only sentries at first (and supply blocks). Like zerg defending a third, getting blocked can be devastating, and you lost your sentries for lings (This is a practical loss). Through the midgame you have a lot of stocked minerals, don't be afraid to use them for cannons for your min lines. They can buy you time and do decently against mutas, having 4-5 per line isn't bad when you see a very pure muta style. You also weren't protected against runbies for much of the early-midgame. Your warp prism didn't do much right? It was just sitting over zerg's fourth for much of the game. Your 4 stalker hitsquad on the overlords was pretty risky, you got kind of lucky that your opponent didn't have units at that moment as he was taking 3 hatches and a spire. Also, when you set up a choke, like you did at your third, you should generally fill it with your units to prevent ling surrounds. I know this is all pretty scattered, just stuff I saw that can be improved. Overall, scout/macro/execute better IMO. If you have trouble taking a base, set up cannons before/as it's warping in, esp against a ling heavy style. Getting your sentries picked off early by lings really put you in a situation where you can't hit a timing against a hive tech transition, esp when your opponent plays super greedy behind mutas. | ||
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scsequeL
47 Posts
On August 02 2012 23:26 Thamel wrote: What is with that FFE wall? Looks super bad against just about anything zerg can do on 2 base. The cannon doesn't even protect either of your big buildings. The biggest thing I saw was that you need to be more diligent with your observer scouting. Just shift queue it to each hatchery so you get a spot off on your opponents tech for sure. Also, I wouldn't make more than 2 immortals until I see a roach. The defense of your 3rd against speedlings went badly because you were always a warp in behind as you seemed to want to warp only sentries at first (and supply blocks). Like zerg defending a third, getting blocked can be devastating, and you lost your sentries for lings (This is a practical loss). Through the midgame you have a lot of stocked minerals, don't be afraid to use them for cannons for your min lines. They can buy you time and do decently against mutas, having 4-5 per line isn't bad when you see a very pure muta style. You also weren't protected against runbies for much of the early-midgame. Your warp prism didn't do much right? It was just sitting over zerg's fourth for much of the game. Your 4 stalker hitsquad on the overlords was pretty risky, you got kind of lucky that your opponent didn't have units at that moment as he was taking 3 hatches and a spire. Also, when you set up a choke, like you did at your third, you should generally fill it with your units to prevent ling surrounds. I know this is all pretty scattered, just stuff I saw that can be improved. Overall, scout/macro/execute better IMO. If you have trouble taking a base, set up cannons before/as it's warping in, esp against a ling heavy style. Getting your sentries picked off early by lings really put you in a situation where you can't hit a timing against a hive tech transition, esp when your opponent plays super greedy behind mutas. Thank you, I was attempting this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342021 early robo sentry immortal into 7:30 third. If I fend off the mutas do I always hit the timing before broodlords come out or do I attempt and take a 3rd ? | ||
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Thamel
United States16 Posts
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Skygrinder
Greece241 Posts
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
On August 02 2012 22:22 scsequeL wrote: thought i did everything right against mutas but it seems impossible to take expansions, any suggestions ? http://drop.sc/232704 Few pointers of what I saw: 1. I didn't like your building position. As it was mentioned before, the wall at the natural wasn't good. Wall off with big 3 buildings and a pylon. Also I didn't like the building positioning at the 3rd. I prefer a full walloff at this map so you only really need to fight lings (or Roaches) from 1 front only. I know pro's sometimes do not fully wall that side, but that requires good reaction time, and yours was lacking. 2. Your response to Mutas was good. You took almost no damage from the initial wave and could build a good sized army, and that brings me to the 3rd point. 3. You macro fell apart at the mid-game. You floated alot of resources and had numerous supply blocks. You should max out at around 16-17 minutes with stormers and +3 attack. You were maxed out too late despite floating alot of resources, and you missed the time window where the Zerg is weak before reaching Broodlords and you can attack with almost maxed army while leaving few Zealots and stormers behind in case he goes for base race. I like to expand to a 4th behind the attack and add Colossus tech with additional robo. Little note on Immortals: while they aren't useful vs lings, when approaching maxed army I recommend reaching a total of 3-5 Immortals as they are extremely helpful for breaking down Spine walls, and pretty good for possible Ultra transition (unlikely, but can happen) | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
PvT Maruaders and Marines are pretty good against them and Zealot sentry is really damn good. Can defend early pressure really easy with z/s, Only reason to have stalkers is for banshees/viking snipes. PvZ the ammount of heavily upgraded zerglings in every game has made me want to stray away from stalkers and going for zealot archon storm with mothership. | ||
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Rozen
Germany24 Posts
I hardly use them (playing plat) and most of the time if I use them I just get rolled by things like mass Roaches or MM. Are there any good comps from the early to lategame that most likely not use any colossi? Only Mu where I liked them are PvT mixed with Archons and Ht's. Is it possible to just skip colossi and getting more Immortals/Sentrys/Stalker against Roaches and Zeals/Archons against T? Oh also: Whats a good comp against Broodlords/Infestor/Ling? I read something about Stalker/colossi/templar/archon/voidray but that looks like its a lot to gas heavy? | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On August 03 2012 06:40 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: There was something I wanted to discuss with all my Protoss Brethren. So how do you guys feel about using Stalkers in the current Matchups. I hate them in PvT and PvZ. PvT Maruaders and Marines are pretty good against them and Zealot sentry is really damn good. Can defend early pressure really easy with z/s, Only reason to have stalkers is for banshees/viking snipes. You need something that fills the role of drop defense, and it helps to have some kind of ranged unit so your army isn't just a billion chargelots; it needs to be able to catch falling back infantry units. Stalkers are decent for both of these situations, and they can also snipe Medivacs (which is always important). However, as the main unit of an army, Stalkers are generally cost-inefficient against Terran because they're low DPS units. They really just help in a Colossus ball in that role. Personally, I like going into Colossus tech and then transitioning into Phoenix Colossus and fighting the war for the skies. If you have 2 bases, you can constantly produce 2 Phoenixes, one Colossus, and about one kind of upgrade/extra gas unit every minute with 4 Assimilators' worth of gas income. Once you have a handful of Phoenixes you can punish drop play entirely, just like Mutalisks do in ZvT (although Phoenixes are faster and regenerate shields faster, so they're actually better against Medivacs). PvZ the ammount of heavily upgraded zerglings in every game has made me want to stray away from stalkers and going for zealot archon storm with mothership. I like making about 3-5 stalkers in the beginning of the game because I open 13 gate 15 gas pressure, and Stalkers with micro can do a lot of direct and indirect damage to the zerg before gas timings. But after that, I go into Stargate for scouting, use Phoenixes to harass and potentially deal with a Muta transition, and the rest of my army on 2-3 base is mostly Zealots (eventually Chargelots) and Immortals. Zealots are cheap as hell and destroy lings, and they aren't that bad against Roaches if you're setting up flanks and using them to tank/hold the roaches in place while Immortals take potshots and even things out. You can support more gates and build units faster with Zealots instead of Stalkers, and you have extra gas to support tier 2 units which are more specific counters to things like Mutas and Roaches. I'm a big fan of building the right unit at the right time, not going for middle-of-road plans like massing stalkers. | ||
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