EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 299
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Aynophae
Spain44 Posts
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
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Raggamuffinoo
United Kingdom117 Posts
On August 03 2012 12:13 Aynophae wrote: What is the normal timing for a 3 base zerg to set up their 3rd base? At which point should I be worrying about 2 base agression if I don't see a 3rd down? 0400-0430 if the zerg hasnt taken a third by 0530-0600 he is all in or bad and you should get some defense ready for 7:30 if he does take a third at this time he is teching and you should attack or find some way to scout his tech. | ||
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JaxxUK
20 Posts
On August 03 2012 12:16 -MoOsE- wrote: Does anyone have the build order for the stargate openings off of a ffe in pvz? This is a rough outline which will vary on scouting information. FFE Stargate ( CB void ) WB,+1, Sentries 8:30 robo, +3 gates, + twilight Blink, +2 10:30 3rd expo tech, gates, etc I believe day 9 did a video on an Axslav stargate opening into 3rd, but I dont watch day9. Hope this helped. | ||
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Milsberry
United States18 Posts
On August 03 2012 06:40 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: There was something I wanted to discuss with all my Protoss Brethren. So how do you guys feel about using Stalkers in the current Matchups. I hate them in PvT and PvZ. PvT Maruaders and Marines are pretty good against them and Zealot sentry is really damn good. Can defend early pressure really easy with z/s, Only reason to have stalkers is for banshees/viking snipes. PvZ the ammount of heavily upgraded zerglings in every game has made me want to stray away from stalkers and going for zealot archon storm with mothership. In terms of PvT not making enough stalkers has actually been a problem of mine. I used to go very heavy zealot/sentry. I occasionally maxed out in games with 90% chargelots/10% sentries and this really wasn't that strong. I watched a streamed game of Bisu and have changed my composition a lot. He usually goes 45/45/10 z/st/s which I like a lot more. Stalkers are really good for taking out medivacs and marines. Can stop drop play easily as well. I agree with pvz. I've found stalkers to be particurally awful in my pvz games lately. I generally do a 4gate robo into fast 3rd ----> 2/1 upgrades blink stalker colossus push before broods can pop. Good infestor/ling play can take this down. Surprisingly it doesn't happen very often but I'm going to start going for templar/storm earlier. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 03 2012 22:18 Milsberry wrote: In terms of PvT not making enough stalkers has actually been a problem of mine. I used to go very heavy zealot/sentry. I occasionally maxed out in games with 90% chargelots/10% sentries and this really wasn't that strong. I watched a streamed game of Bisu and have changed my composition a lot. He usually goes 45/45/10 z/st/s which I like a lot more. Stalkers are really good for taking out medivacs and marines. Can stop drop play easily as well. I agree with pvz. I've found stalkers to be particurally awful in my pvz games lately. I generally do a 4gate robo into fast 3rd ----> 2/1 upgrades blink stalker colossus push before broods can pop. Good infestor/ling play can take this down. Surprisingly it doesn't happen very often but I'm going to start going for templar/storm earlier. Squirtle made it to a GSL finals going very heavy stalker in PvT with colossi. Stalkers with colossi are great in PvT until the late game. Even in the late game you'll want 10-14 blink stalkers to micro in order to pick off and defend against ghosts and vikings. Obviously in PvZ if you see ling upgrades you'll want to go a heavy zealot style into templar tech or into colossi and not heavy stalker, but you'll still want stalkers for the brood lords later if he transitions into them, and you have to be very careful against a muta switch if you aren't building stalkers. | ||
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
Right now, I just clump them up behind an immortal or colo when there is no threat of ghosts, but the result is, I have to stutter-step forward to get storms to hit. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On August 03 2012 23:38 Roadog wrote: What's the best way to control HTs in an army? Right now, I just clump them up behind an immortal or colo when there is no threat of ghosts, but the result is, I have to stutter-step forward to get storms to hit. I put HTs into their own control group and on follow command on a Colossus, when the battle starts I first cast any forcefield or guardian shield and then only manually control HTs for storm feedback. | ||
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
On August 03 2012 23:46 Sated wrote: I think that the ideal method is transporting them in a Warp-Prism (the Warp-Prism moves faster, they can't get EMP'd whilst in the Warp-Prism, they can fly into ideal positions etc.). If the opponent has too many Vikings then this might not be an option; in this case, you'll just need to keep them in a separate hotkey and split them well against the threat of Ghosts. On August 04 2012 00:18 Mikelius wrote: I put HTs into their own control group and on follow command on a Colossus, when the battle starts I first cast any forcefield or guardian shield and then only manually control HTs for storm feedback. I have them follow behind an immortal or colo, but when I cast a spell, my HTs get stuck behind the stalker/immortal line, so there is a delay between me casting the spell and the spell actually hitting. Terran opponents I face tend to commit to vikings whether I have colossus or not; that's why I'm averse to storing my HTs in Warp Prisms. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
Whether they're on foot or in a Prism, you shouldn't have them follow your Colossi or an Immortal. You should just 1-a 2-a 3-a with your army and have them on their own control group. Pay attention to your Templar. They're important. You should double tap their control group hotkey to center on them, then individually move them forward to split from EMPs and set up to cast storms in a fight. Since they're slow, you can't just have them behind your army because they move slower than everything else. They need to be somewhere in the middle or front of things. This is part of why people put them in transports, and also why they're a bit naturally better as defensive units than offensive ones--you fall back and the slow templar storm with great position. | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On August 04 2012 01:38 ineversmile wrote: HTs in Warp Prisms isn't so much a control thing as an anti-EMP thing. You can control HTs just fine without a transport. However, you do get some tactical benefits from the mobility, such as dropping storms behind your opponent's army so they either stand and fight the Zealots/Colossi head-on, or they fall back through storms. You see this a lot at the GSL level, especially from Startale Protosses. Whether they're on foot or in a Prism, you shouldn't have them follow your Colossi or an Immortal. You should just 1-a 2-a 3-a with your army and have them on their own control group. Pay attention to your Templar. They're important. You should double tap their control group hotkey to center on them, then individually move them forward to split from EMPs and set up to cast storms in a fight. Since they're slow, you can't just have them behind your army because they move slower than everything else. They need to be somewhere in the middle or front of things. This is part of why people put them in transports, and also why they're a bit naturally better as defensive units than offensive ones--you fall back and the slow templar storm with great position. personally i find its best to have the ht-prism a little further out from your army. I dont like when the terrans becomes aware of its presence cause then they actively try to avoid it/focus it down as for anti-emp, its also good for a terran army thats just kiting back, there are many occassions where youre attempting to persue a terran army but he's just kiting the zealots back while your HT's are too slow to keep up. Having a prism storm drop for a flank manuevere is extremely nice to have | ||
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Milsberry
United States18 Posts
This got me thinking I might have to start getting wp speed and try this style in pvt | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
On August 04 2012 02:51 Milsberry wrote: I've seen MC flank an entire terran army with 4hts in his warp prism and then proceed to storm the living shit out of the terran. Pretty sure it was on Cloud Kingdom but don't remember who he faced. It was fucking epic. This got me thinking I might have to start getting wp speed and try this style in pvt Pretty sure it was against Puma at NASL | ||
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thousand
Poland41 Posts
I usually loose around 3 probes while a cannon in my main is warping in and then I try to punish Z with 4gate. The problem is that my wg is heavily delayed and he can produce so many speedlings from his double hatch that I easily get surrounded. I dont know if I should play economically, I feel like I'm giving him too much freedom and I can get destroyed by a wave of speedlings as I need some time to rebuild my wall. Any ideas? | ||
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abdup
Singapore7 Posts
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Raggamuffinoo
United Kingdom117 Posts
On August 04 2012 22:15 thousand wrote: What should I do after defending 6 pool? I usually loose around 3 probes while a cannon in my main is warping in and then I try to punish Z with 4gate. The problem is that my wg is heavily delayed and he can produce so many speedlings from his double hatch that I easily get surrounded. I dont know if I should play economically, I feel like I'm giving him too much freedom and I can get destroyed by a wave of speedlings as I need some time to rebuild my wall. Any ideas? It starts with your initial scouting probe, go and hide it as soon as you see the low drone count. once you are safe back in your main, make 2-4 proxy gateways to deny his expansion with zealots while you stabilize your probe count. Once you have 5+ zealots you should briefly cut zealot production in order to re-establish a wall off with forge and eventually cybernetics core, behind which you should make an expansion. Try your utmost to save your zealots, only fight zerglings with stutterstep, off creep and out of range of queens. If you see roaches, delay your second gas and add up to 4 cannons to your wall. Depending on how much damage your zealots did to his expansion/worker or unit count you can either delay your 3rd and 4th gas until you have 7 gateways (if zerg took minimal damage) OR take your 3rd gas earlier and tech to colossus (if zerg lost a base/queens/many drones) You must make this choice immediately after scouting his pool, there is no time for hesitation, if he is able to get 2 queens and a spine or 2, your zealots are useless and you are forced into a delayed one base all in (very slim chance of working) | ||
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Aynophae
Spain44 Posts
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-Kira
352 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:39 Aynophae wrote: What do you tosses think about colossi-less PvT? I use to get up to 3 colossi and then transition into HT, but is it possible to be safe going straight to HT+storm? I think it may be very vulnerable to 10-12 minute attacks, is it worth trying? Most popular PvT builds are 2x forge into templar builds, so yes, it is very viable. On August 04 2012 22:54 abdup wrote: What are some tips for a new player in SC2 and Protoss ? High bronze. Play alot, watch pro players and copy them. And play alot. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:39 Aynophae wrote: What do you tosses think about colossi-less PvT? I use to get up to 3 colossi and then transition into HT, but is it possible to be safe going straight to HT+storm? I think it may be very vulnerable to 10-12 minute attacks, is it worth trying? You are correct that it can be harder to survive medivac timings with templar play, but it's very viable. Two good examples of templar-focused openings are http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=312133 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339. I use a build that's kind of a hybrid between those two, i open with 3-4 gate aggression and then tech to chargelot/archon on 2 bases, then take a third and tech to storm after i hold the terran's counter attack. | ||
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