EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 273
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Hemingway
United States55 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On June 27 2012 02:53 Hemingway wrote: So I've been watching Mana's stream for much of this morning, and he's been playing a lot of PvP. Today at least he's been using some kind of Stargate opener, but it keeps getting shut down by a 4gate stalker-heavy opener that eventually adds Blink. This kind of 4gate seems to be pretty effective and good for someone new to Protoss like myself to pick up and use, however I've heard lots about how bad 4gate can be in PvP nowadays. What's a good, aggressive PvP opener that's flexible and simple to learn? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234157 or http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=273465 | ||
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Czarkasm
United States22 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:23 Czarkasm wrote: New player overall and have decided to choose Protoss as my main race. Basically I have a general idea of mechanics and have started working on the basic opener (9 pylon, 13 gateway - I understand 12 is an option as well but from what I understand the slight economic advantage will help me more in lower levels.) I am looking to study and practice 1 general build against each race, I was told the best way to learn is 1 build against a specific race but if I was to do that would I apply that same build to the other races when I am in a ladder match? If so maybe there is a general build that can work against all races. I have looked around and most information I had found is outdated and I am not sure if thh are still viable or not. Thank you! I think it's better to just find 1 build per matchup. Have you seen any replays or VODs of cool builds recently? Maybe check around TL for guides or look at a Day9 Daily for a build that excites you for one matchup. Then practice it in 1 player. Then practice it against players of your skill in custom games. Do this for each build then hit the ladder and learn learn learn as you have fun fun fun. | ||
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Czarkasm
United States22 Posts
***EDIT*** I am essentially looking for builds as listed in the Reccomended Strategy thread but as those are almost a year old I'm wondering if they're outdated and if so would it be possible to give me 3 current viable ones. Thank you. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:00 Czarkasm wrote: @AirbladeOrange Yeah I would like to learn 1 build per matchup as you say, as learning 1 matchup build period just doesnt seem very effective to me. I watch alot of day9 but it seems that most of the builds he analyzes are anylizations specifically of that build (duh) but often times these are builds that only work for the particular situation after scouting and finding something extremely specific that your opponent is doing (I.E. PvT your opponent is taking 2 gas early) then he would say this build is good but not what to do if they do something else, so basically what im trying to find is 3 relatively standard Openers (1 for each matchup), that are still viable at this point. I have found a few builds that I like but they just seem like they ONLY fit for the specific situations like I said and I would really like to learn a build that has a bit more versatility possibly. ***EDIT*** I am essentially looking for builds as listed in the Reccomended Strategy thread but as those are almost a year old I'm wondering if they're outdated and if so would it be possible to give me 3 current viable ones. Thank you. I think it's best to find a build that YOU think is cool and interesting. Don't worry as much about what other people are doing or what they think unless maybe you're trying to play at a very high level. Here are 3 builds I found just by going through the SC2 strategy section. If you do them properly with good mechanics, fundamentals, and decision making they will work fine. PvP - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345662 PvZ - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014 PvT - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339 | ||
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Arayvenn
Canada22 Posts
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On June 27 2012 14:21 Arayvenn wrote: In your opinion, what's the new best opener against a Zerg assuming they're going for a macro game. I don't like forge first anymore because of how popular Stephano's fast max has got, so I've been sentry expanding. It's worked well, I just want to know what you guys have been doing. gota FFE, if you practice against the roach max you should be able to hold it now, alot of players have gotten more comfortable defending that push with either a ton of immortal/sentry with sim city or using voidrays sentry +simcity. I believe the most important part in holding the max out is the simcity, as there are different unit compositions that can hold it comfortably. Hell, theres even an all in immortal sentry push that hits the zerg right before the roach max occurs. I used to sentry expand all the time and if the zerg doesnt over make units to defend any kind of aggression, you will fall behind economically and enter the mid game with less army units or less tech. Literally, you will feel the difference once you try both styles and around the same timing you will notice you just have less stuff with sentry expands. | ||
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iremnant3847
Taiwan269 Posts
As a rather low league player (gold/plat), I find myself in situations where I will open with a Forge F.E, only to find around eight to ten Roaches spewing acid at my wall. What steps should a Protoss player take to hold off Roach pressure? Mutalisks have been my least favorite unit (they're pretty cute though), due to their extreme mobility and worker harassing skills. I've tried setting up a couple of cannons for basic defense, but when the flock of Mutalisks get big, Cannons become almost worthless. Should I tech up to Phoenix (with range upgrade), rely on Blink stalkers, or High templar storms? Thanks guys. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On June 27 2012 14:58 vizi wrote: I heard from a youtube video that it's almost impossible to establish a third base against a Zerg player without HTemplar or Colossi. To what extent is this statement true? Is it possible to maintain a strong, defensive stance with only Gateway units? As a rather low league player (gold/plat), I find myself in situations where I will open with a Forge F.E, only to find around eight to ten Roaches spewing acid at my wall. What steps should a Protoss player take to hold off Roach pressure? Mutalisks have been my least favorite unit (they're pretty cute though), due to their extreme mobility and worker harassing skills. I've tried setting up a couple of cannons for basic defense, but when the flock of Mutalisks get big, Cannons become almost worthless. Should I tech up to Phoenix (with range upgrade), rely on Blink stalkers, or High templar storms? Thanks guys. 1) It's completely wrong (probably the video is really really outdated), see this thread for macro pvz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 2) Regarding fast roaches vs ffe, they are super common in lower leagues because they net really easy wins a lot of the time. What you should do is scout for his gas, nat timing, and third timing. If he goes for a gas/pool opening (or pool/gas of course), then his natural should go down at around 4 minutes and this third at 6. If he goes for a gassless opening, the natural hatch should go down at around 3 and his third at around 4.30; if he takes a gas before 4 minutes against your ffe it's highly likely to be some kind of bust or 2base play. Make sure you send out more probes on the map, and scout with your first zealot, for that information. Once you confirm no standard play (3hatch no gas), go up to 3 cannons at your front and keep constant sentry production from your gateway. Hold the watch tower with your zealot and if you see anything suspicious or scary (lots of lings, a few roaches etc) make more cannons. Roach pressure like that means zerg is sacrificing huge amouts of economy so as long as you see it coming you should hold it and come out ahead. Also make sure you have vision of your entire base, as he might also be trying to sneak a nydus in your main. 3) For mutas: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788. Keep in mind that since the phoenix buff, if you open stargate you can also go from 4-5 phoenixes to 10 or so with phoenix range, and with good micro you should be able to kill all the mutas. I have also seen some players (specifically Puzzle in an NASL match) go double stargate phoenix once they scouted 2base muta with an obs and getting phoenix range, and it worked pretty well too; i'm not sure it can be done against a 3 base muta build however. | ||
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Ea
United States121 Posts
I cannoned my front and went double stargate, but his queens really shut down the void rays. Mass spines killed my front and lings snuck in  I snuck some zealots out to his main but he had a spine + queen already defending his main, so that didn't do much.my question is, what do you guys respond with? I guess I just am looking for a unit composition to defend vs this. Robo units? Proxy gate? What works best here? Thanks | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On June 27 2012 16:52 Ea wrote: Hi guys, I played against a zerg today who proxy hatched my 3rd in Cloud Kingdom. Totally didn't see it until it completed. I cannoned my front and went double stargate, but his queens really shut down the void rays. Mass spines killed my front and lings snuck in I snuck some zealots out to his main but he had a spine + queen already defending his main, so that didn't do much.my question is, what do you guys respond with? I guess I just am looking for a unit composition to defend vs this. Robo units? Proxy gate? What works best here? Thanks Post a replay so we can see the timings of your build compared to his, so we can help you out and point out certain things you should have seen that would be signaling to some kind of aggressive build by the zerg. From the sounds of it you went FFE into double stargate, I dont think its a unit composition problem but more of a lack of production problem. | ||
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tHeWayy
17 Posts
I was playing Empire.Beastyq on TL4 Ro16, i lost the first game because of some mistakes but the seconde game i just get destroy and i can't figure out what i should have done. I went for an FFE like the first game, he tried to bunker rush but he didn't do so much. And then i went for a +1/+1 : 2 collosus push but his tanks was perfectly spot so i took b3. He ran over the map with this tanks, marines heavy and destroy me. Thanks for the help. http://drop.sc/208892 | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On June 28 2012 02:08 Salivanth wrote: Why do players go 12 Gate in PvP, even though it forces a brief probe cut? What are we defending against? If you go 13 Gateway, its puts your warpgate behind your opponents WG tech if they go for a 12 gate by about 15 seconds or so, and if they open 11 or 10 gate first into 4 gate then you won't have warpgate up in time to defend at all. At the very least, with a 12 gate if you see a 4 gate might be coming you can chrono your own WG tech and hold an attack whereas otherwise, this isn't possible. Or I should say very very hard. The brief probe cut is worth the safety in most scenarios. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Example video + Show Spoiler [NASL spoiler] + | ||
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:01 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: So how are you guys playing PvTs nowadays? 1 gate fe with fast 3rd and tons of gates? Master toss, and i've been playing around with 1gate fe 2 more gates then twilgiht + forge then 2 more gates robo cannons at each mineral line templar archives expo i play super defensive I never attack until the late game or until they attack me and loss lots of army. You may also want to get gates 4 and 5 before any tech if he is doing some heavy rax all in. If he is doing some version of a 1-1-1 you want charge and an archon or two plus 2 temps for feedback on any ravens and banshees. The cannons in your mineral line are only required if he might be going cloak or hellion drop. Get storm before colossus tech you want 2-4 templars with storm before throwing down the robo bay. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On June 28 2012 02:18 ZeromuS wrote: If you go 13 Gateway, its puts your warpgate behind your opponents WG tech if they go for a 12 gate by about 15 seconds or so, and if they open 11 or 10 gate first into 4 gate then you won't have warpgate up in time to defend at all. At the very least, with a 12 gate if you see a 4 gate might be coming you can chrono your own WG tech and hold an attack whereas otherwise, this isn't possible. Or I should say very very hard. The brief probe cut is worth the safety in most scenarios. This isn't actually all that accurate. I'd say the difference is pretty negligible unless you're on tal darim. I consistently defend all aggression with a 13 gate every pvp. | ||
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