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On February 08 2012 06:31 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:32 NrGmonk wrote:On February 08 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:On February 08 2012 02:53 BuffaloBill wrote:
Pretty simple. I despise PvP due to the high randomness factor. Generally I've found that if he's going for an early push/timing push with a build that isn't blindly countered by mine, I lose. If he tries it with a build that is blindly countered by mine, I win. On the rare occasions it goes past the timing push/allin, it just boilds down to who can get the most colossi the fastest which is boring as all-hell imo. It's so bad that I am making mistakes I'm not making against the other races (such as forgetting to actually get units when I can/should, missing upgrades etc).
I'm playing P atm due to very frequent random drops to 1fps (or less) which makes any form of proper micro almost impossible (Storm/Forcefield and similar things work somewhat decently). As soon as these are fixed I'm probably moving back to Terran. As such I'm just looking for something that'll get me by for now against the most common openings/timing pushes without crumbling at Diamond and higher. Popular misconception. If you play well - blink+obs, immortal expand, stargate openings are all safe and you don't "auto lose" to anything. Just improve. Yea, this. Those 3 builds in addition to a gateway expand into robo are the relatively safe builds. They don't autolose to anything and aren't terribly behind anything if you play them out correctly. The more coinflip builds are fast colossi and dt builds as well as any allins. How do you find immortal expands fare against fast archon and +1?
From what I've done with that build it generally stomps Immortal Expands (top gold here).
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For PvT:
1) Is 2 Gate Robo Expand (the one that takes a Nexus on 34 supply) economically behind
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
2) Is a 1 Gate Robo FE safe against
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
Thanks!
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Italy12248 Posts
On February 08 2012 07:46 bankai wrote:
For PvT:
1) Is 2 Gate Robo Expand (the one that takes a Nexus on 34 supply) economically behind
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
Thanks!
a) yes and b) depends, mostly a little bit yeah.
On February 08 2012 07:46 bankai wrote:
2) Is a 1 Gate Robo FE safe against
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
Thanks!
a) if you go zealot/stalker/stalker yes, not sure about anything with faster sentries.
b) i don't think so but i am not sure. Even some 1gate fe into 3gate aren't safe. I guess it might be ok if you go immortal first but that kinda defeats the purpose of the fast robo since you can defend with gateway units anyway.
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On February 08 2012 06:31 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:32 NrGmonk wrote:On February 08 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:On February 08 2012 02:53 BuffaloBill wrote:
Pretty simple. I despise PvP due to the high randomness factor. Generally I've found that if he's going for an early push/timing push with a build that isn't blindly countered by mine, I lose. If he tries it with a build that is blindly countered by mine, I win. On the rare occasions it goes past the timing push/allin, it just boilds down to who can get the most colossi the fastest which is boring as all-hell imo. It's so bad that I am making mistakes I'm not making against the other races (such as forgetting to actually get units when I can/should, missing upgrades etc).
I'm playing P atm due to very frequent random drops to 1fps (or less) which makes any form of proper micro almost impossible (Storm/Forcefield and similar things work somewhat decently). As soon as these are fixed I'm probably moving back to Terran. As such I'm just looking for something that'll get me by for now against the most common openings/timing pushes without crumbling at Diamond and higher. Popular misconception. If you play well - blink+obs, immortal expand, stargate openings are all safe and you don't "auto lose" to anything. Just improve. Yea, this. Those 3 builds in addition to a gateway expand into robo are the relatively safe builds. They don't autolose to anything and aren't terribly behind anything if you play them out correctly. The more coinflip builds are fast colossi and dt builds as well as any allins. How do you find immortal expands fare against fast archon and +1?
If it's one base vs expand, then the advantage is of the defender. If the opponent takes a fast expansion as well, and you let them take a fast third soon after you'll fall behind.
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United States8477 Posts
On February 08 2012 06:31 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:32 NrGmonk wrote:On February 08 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:On February 08 2012 02:53 BuffaloBill wrote:
Pretty simple. I despise PvP due to the high randomness factor. Generally I've found that if he's going for an early push/timing push with a build that isn't blindly countered by mine, I lose. If he tries it with a build that is blindly countered by mine, I win. On the rare occasions it goes past the timing push/allin, it just boilds down to who can get the most colossi the fastest which is boring as all-hell imo. It's so bad that I am making mistakes I'm not making against the other races (such as forgetting to actually get units when I can/should, missing upgrades etc).
I'm playing P atm due to very frequent random drops to 1fps (or less) which makes any form of proper micro almost impossible (Storm/Forcefield and similar things work somewhat decently). As soon as these are fixed I'm probably moving back to Terran. As such I'm just looking for something that'll get me by for now against the most common openings/timing pushes without crumbling at Diamond and higher. Popular misconception. If you play well - blink+obs, immortal expand, stargate openings are all safe and you don't "auto lose" to anything. Just improve. Yea, this. Those 3 builds in addition to a gateway expand into robo are the relatively safe builds. They don't autolose to anything and aren't terribly behind anything if you play them out correctly. The more coinflip builds are fast colossi and dt builds as well as any allins. How do you find immortal expands fare against fast archon and +1?
The build I was refering to isn't really an immortal expand. It's more of a robo into reaction build. Obviously, you're not going to get immortals versus archon/chargelot. If you scout that, I would just go 1 base colossi.
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Hey guys, I'm curious as to your thoughts on gas timings in PvZ.
Specifically, if I am going a macro followup to a FFE (powering my economy, staying on low tech just using sentries for protection hallucinations for scouting and a bare minimum army so I can get 'dat infrastructure+econ and an early third up) on a map with an easy third, when should I get my gas?
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On February 08 2012 08:42 Selendis wrote:
Hey guys, I'm curious as to your thoughts on gas timings in PvZ.
Specifically, if I am going a macro followup to a FFE (powering my economy, staying on low tech just using sentries for protection hallucinations for scouting and a bare minimum army so I can get 'dat infrastructure+econ and an early third up) on a map with an easy third, when should I get my gas?
You need two Vespene for most Gateway oriented allins. If you get Blink I'd go for three Vespene. For two base + Robo you need only three geysers until the next tech structure goes down.
Basically it's like this: two bases with just Gateways = 2 Vespene. Another tech structure is another vespene. Another tech structure is another vespene. If you want more than this, you need a third.
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On February 08 2012 08:47 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 08:42 Selendis wrote:
Hey guys, I'm curious as to your thoughts on gas timings in PvZ.
Specifically, if I am going a macro followup to a FFE (powering my economy, staying on low tech just using sentries for protection hallucinations for scouting and a bare minimum army so I can get 'dat infrastructure+econ and an early third up) on a map with an easy third, when should I get my gas? You need two Vespene for most Gateway oriented allins. If you get Blink I'd go for three Vespene. For two base + Robo you need only three geysers until the next tech structure goes down. Basically it's like this: two bases with just Gateways = 2 Vespene. Another tech structure is another vespene. Another tech structure is another vespene. If you want more than this, you need a third.
Thanks that helps a ton. 
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United States8477 Posts
On February 08 2012 08:42 Selendis wrote:
Hey guys, I'm curious as to your thoughts on gas timings in PvZ.
Specifically, if I am going a macro followup to a FFE (powering my economy, staying on low tech just using sentries for protection hallucinations for scouting and a bare minimum army so I can get 'dat infrastructure+econ and an early third up) on a map with an easy third, when should I get my gas?
99% of the time, you want your first 2 gas when you can afford them after your gateway/2nd plyon/cannon. For an extremely generic non gateway-pressure build, 3rd and 4th gases should be around 6:00-6:30.
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How about a Gate expand? I find I can get by on 2 geysers for a considerable time - at least up until my 8.00-9.00 minute poke. But I'm only in Gold, so I don't know if that is correct. It feels right though, as it does not seem the time to tech.
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On February 08 2012 08:56 aZealot wrote:
How about a Gate expand? I find I can get by on 2 geysers for a considerable time - at least up until my 8.00-9.00 minute poke. But I'm only in Gold, so I don't know if that is correct. It feels right though, as it does not seem the time to tech.
What kind of expand? What strategy are you going for?
It can be good, it can be bad.
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On February 08 2012 08:51 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 08:42 Selendis wrote:
Hey guys, I'm curious as to your thoughts on gas timings in PvZ.
Specifically, if I am going a macro followup to a FFE (powering my economy, staying on low tech just using sentries for protection hallucinations for scouting and a bare minimum army so I can get 'dat infrastructure+econ and an early third up) on a map with an easy third, when should I get my gas? 99% of the time, you want your first 2 gas when you can afford them after your gateway/2nd plyon/cannon. For an extremely generic non gateway-pressure build, 3rd and 4th gases should be around 6:00-6:30.
mm specific advice is even better.:D. I've always played it by ear and used my gateway composition to take up the "slack" of excess mins or gas, which leads to under-par compositions. This helps, thanks
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Hey!
So I'm losing a lot to phoenix builds in PvP lately. Seems like it's raping everything. Blink stalkers suck when 6-7 phoenixes lift them and the rest is being raped by zealots/immortals. Since I hate going air, is there something to do or I'm just sentenced to death at the beginning of every PvP? (I'm high diamond EU by the way).
Cheers!
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I just decided to switch from terran to protoss (TvZ and TvT I don't like the style they're played).
All i basically know however, are mostly either dead end 2 base 6 gate all ins, 1 gate FE into colossus, and 4 gate. I'm wondering if there are any other openers or BOs that I can follow to get different unit comps for PvZ and PvT (Ex 1 gate FE into double forge or something). I'd appeciate a link/replay/video of any kind as well
Thanks
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On February 08 2012 09:42 iNbluE wrote:
Hey!
So I'm losing a lot to phoenix builds in PvP lately. Seems like it's raping everything. Blink stalkers suck when 6-7 phoenixes lift them and the rest is being raped by zealots/immortals. Since I hate going air, is there something to do or I'm just sentenced to death at the beginning of every PvP? (I'm high diamond EU by the way).
Cheers!
Robo into TC is the best counter, also very fast expo. Since a lot of the enemy's gas is tied up in phoenixes, a fast expo is essentially un-punishable by him. He either needs to all in (which you can easily hold with good forcefields and target firing, or expand himself, forcing the match into the mid game. Additionally, scout exactly what unit comp he's going for with your observer, and counter accordingly. Pump about 15 blink stalkers, then counter whatever tech he's going other than phoenixes.
Replay of me doing exactly what you need to see!!!
High masters Protoss btw.
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On February 08 2012 09:19 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 08:56 aZealot wrote:
How about a Gate expand? I find I can get by on 2 geysers for a considerable time - at least up until my 8.00-9.00 minute poke. But I'm only in Gold, so I don't know if that is correct. It feels right though, as it does not seem the time to tech. What kind of expand? What strategy are you going for? It can be good, it can be bad.
2 Gate expand into a 2 Zealot, 5/6 Sentry, 6 - 8 Stalker push at around 8 - 9 minutes in game. That, or fake pressure, if he has stayed on 2 bases and isn't teching and look to take an early 3rd perhaps (or turtle for a little while) before transitioning into a robo tech and a macro game. I find that I am mineral starved more than gas starved at that point (6 - 9 minutes) in the game, so I've stopped taking a 3rd geyser until I decide what next.
The only times I'll really push, come what may, is if I scout some sort of 2 base Muta build in which case I look for fast +1, drop a 4th gate, maybe drop a geyser, and try to hit him hard before the 10 minute mark so that the problem is nipped in the bud. (It usually works but if I wait too long, he gets too many Muta and I find you die the death of a thousand cuts.)
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Russian Federation164 Posts
Any math/advice/threads regarding cutting gas mining early on?
E.g., mining gas for WG with only 1 probe is fairly popular now (or rallying probes directly from Nexus into assym), but I'm not sure how much extra minerals do u gain that way, and it delays 1st sentry a bit
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On February 08 2012 07:46 bankai wrote:
For PvT:
1) Is 2 Gate Robo Expand (the one that takes a Nexus on 34 supply) economically behind
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
2) Is a 1 Gate Robo FE safe against
(a) 1rax tech lab FE
(b) 2 rax reactor/tech lab FE?
Thanks!
Both builds are ultra-safe imho, there's no breaking them. If you are masters and above I would go 1gate no-zealot FE instead PvT, I do it every game, save maybe for xelnaga, it really puts you ahead.
Follow up with +1 gate, and then build robo @next 100 gas after first sentry. Put down twilight and forge and get observer. Constant gateway production of 2 gates (NO MORE) and tech hard. React with obs, piece of cake.
Ofc its easier to hold on some maps than others, but I really dont have a problem with 2rax or marauder pokes. Occassionaly have to pull a few probes but only in extreme cases.
Biggest mistake ppl do tbh is to add more gates too early. 2gates + 1 robo is easily enough for a long time while you tech chargelots and +1/+1. Just keep your warpgate cycle CONSTANT and you can easily cut two warpgates and tech HARD.
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Hi, I just lost a game pretty badly to a hellion opening in PvT. I scouted a really fast factory with my probe so I switched from doing a 1 gate FE to a 3 gate robo build. But it didn't matter because very quickly there were 4 hellions in my base against my zealot and 2 stalkers. I ended up losing all but 4 of my mining probes.
I can't think of any way to stop this from doing so much damage without walling off with a choke at the ramp. But It feels like a massive disadvantage to do that in PvT every game and I've only encountered this hellion build once.
I'm in Platinum. What can I do to win against this?
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EPT
