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Hello there dear folks!
Im a Diamond Terran player.
I just started to go a bit deeper into my play and got a nice bag of strategies at my hands.
Its nothing extraordinary or gimmicky since i try to actually improve with FE and generally more "safe" strategies. Beside the fact that i enjoy macro games i thought it would be really good to have some agreesive tech-openers in my arsenal to wrap things up.
For the sake of having an example i will use Cloaked Banshee openers vs. Toss on close Air on Shattered Temple.
I have really big issues with "transitioning" out of a foretold gameplan. Like i tell myself in the beginning of the game "if my opponent spawns close air i will open cloaked banshee and then expand, if i spawn cross or close ground i will play 2rax pressure into expand". After scouting he is close air i drop my 2nd gas after 2nd depot, starting to get my factory and generally setting up my cloaked banshee play just to get....scouted and see the robo dropping down. I opted to switch to an expansion then but got crushed b/c i had a FUCKTON of gas leftover (due to 2 gas build and hesitation to pull dudes off of gas) and haven't had the infrastructure to match his production.
regards,
djynn
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This is tough to analyze without a replay. I would say continue building your banshees but maybe skip cloak. Abandoning all that gas is a pretty big waste. You can still use banshees for a nice frontal attack along with other units. Also if you're gonna expand take guys off gas right away. Just because you built the geysers doesn't mean you need to use them. Raven is a good counter to his inevitable observers and against the stalkers which is also a good way to spend gas with your current infrastructure.
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I will browse through my replay folder to see if i can actually come up with some but i hope i made my point clear.
Thanks for the brainstorming by the way! : )
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On July 31 2011 04:34 djynn wrote:
After scouting he is close air i drop my 2nd gas after 2nd depot, starting to get my factory and generally setting up my cloaked banshee play just to get....scouted and see the robo dropping down. I opted to switch to an expansion then but got crushed b/c i had a FUCKTON of gas leftover (due to 2 gas build and hesitation to pull dudes off of gas) and haven't had the infrastructure to match his production.
Realistically in the aforementioned quote you should of went for drops... I'm guessing your Banshee>expansion build is a 1-1-1? After your Factory got scouted you should of threw down another Barracks and gone BF Hellion drop expand(around 30-35 supply for the in base CC) w/mm (if 2 gas) to defend your expansion (maybe bunker at natural). You scouting the Robotics Facility is more crucial than him scouting your Factory because you know he's going colossus at some point, While he can guess what your doing; MMM? Mech? Air? He will obviously get an Observer early, but with a sharp eye you can see them. When you drop his base with the Hellions, check his unit comp when they come; no Immortals means he thought you were going Banshees, 1-2 immortals means he thought you were going some kind of bio/Tank.
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That is actually some really useful intel on how to transition out of stuff. Thanks a lot man.
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Scouting a robo doesn't mean he is necessarily committed to colossus.
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But it means that my cloaked Banshees will be rather useless, doesn't it?
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Well in that instance I think maybe its your build thats sort of flawed in that instance. I mean if you think you are just done when someone drops a robo then it cant be that good.
I would use scouting information as something you need in that instance, for example say , okay I do this (banshees) but if I scout this (robo) then i do that instead(dont play that much terran, maybe blue flame drop?) and it will still be sort of smooth.
If you scout and go, well shit I am so dead then it sounds very squishy
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in this example with banshees vs toss, there are a few things you can do.
For one thing, take worker out of the gas and do your expansion. The other option would be medivacs as you probably play bio anyway and close air is nice for drops too ^^.
Another thing is to get the banshee anyway to scout the opponents base(you will get enough damage done with one anyway, though save it as its nice over the whole game, you can go straight for the raven though), not get cloak and go for a raven. Observers over your army are a huge advantage and the raven cost is nothing compared to what you will save because he won't see your army xD. Pdd is also nice against stalkers, if he doesn't have enough your raven and banshee can fly in and snipe some sentrys hehe. Otherwise you can be sneak get building armor and have zealots/sentrys deal almost no damage to auto turrets.
Banshees work as combat units as well and are a nice addition to t1 heavy play (or mineral heavy so to say), as you should have heard about the fearsome tank marine banshee push hehe. Its only important to keep them alive and get an eye for opportunitys. Such as i can kill all his stalkers, and can kill the rest of his army with the banshees on retreat.
So there are 100 things you can do if he scouts ... its up to you, what you prefer.
especially a toss will most likely always know what you are building.
oh and the banshee is still a useful scout and cloak can sometimes be useful if the obs are out of posi for example. (thats why people get the raven + viking to lucky snipe an obs and hope to get 10 probes)
You can also clear out watchtowers with one banshee etc. Harassment units are always worth it as long as they are alive, they will force more concentration out of the opponent until they are dead. (of course you will also need to put more attention onto them ^^)
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From my experience if you go for a banshee you ofc need to take the 2nd gas. I think i know your problem basically.
You have multitasking problem it seems.
For when ur gas is piling up while you harass with your banshee that is not a good idea. If you actuall go 1-1-1 VS toss you will have a time when you are at 300+ minerals which i strongly suggest you take 2 more raxes waste the gas on stim/shell/+10hp (250 instant gas) and try going for a timing attack.
You can not opt for 1-1-1 and than take an expansion. It is like you are playing protoss teching for high templars and than after getting the bay and going for collosus.
If at least little smart protoss see you going 1-1-1 bashee opener and throw down an expansion , after your harass he can easily overwhelm u with 3 gate robo (and at least 2 immortals out of it).
From 1-1-1 timing attack you should opt for lots of marines , 2-3 bashee and a raven.
Also some terrans are as well going for 3-4 tanks and attack after the 10 minute mark in which he should be having at least 1 collosus that will do very great dmg vs ur marines if you engage.
But if you attack at arround 8-9 you will feel confortable with ur raven.
Dont get me wrong but i mainly think you have a multitasking problem.
If you can share a replay i will be more than glad to help you out on this.
cheers.
Nepsilon
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I finally found a replay.
The following is pretty much the absolute WORST CASE scenario. It's not THAT bad usally but i messed up bigtime.
http://www.mediafire.com/?h9cvt3lfxzopm71
P.S.: @ Nepsilon : It's not about getting the Banshee and then following up my harassament but not harassing with the expected Banshees in the first place to make him overreact and then strike with smth else.
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I would make one banshee and try to do some damage with it and then retreat when it isn't working (saving the banshee makes your army a lot stronger). After you made the banshee get the starport off the tech lab and make a medivac or two (medivacs make your army way stronger so this should help defend his push and allows you to drop his base). You use the extra gas to get bio upgrades and medivacs. From there just continue with the usual MMM style.
Alternatively you can go for a really strong all-in with a banshee, raven, tank marine mix. If the protoss puts down a robotics in reaction to your starport his build wont be optimal and he will build an observer that doesn't aid him in defending this push. As a protoss you need every unit you can get to defend this and if he expects cloacked banshees he will likely overmake stalkers which won't help him defend due to the pdd. Also when doing this try to get some early kills with the banshee to lower his probe or sentry count.
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Just did a quick watch of that replay -- scouting the robo and switching away from banshees was a great idea. Missing the Stargate sucked though. =/
You knew you were transitioning into heavy HEAVY bio play. Either you need to pull SCVs out of gas to commit to the heavy ground army, or use that jump you have on your tech to fast track to a reactor starport to give yourself some Medivac support vs. that first push. Which way I would go would depend on my scouting information. (This game, for sure I would be pulling SCVs from gas and dropping a bunch of rax)
Which brings me to my next point -- you need to either keep the scouting SCV alive or send another one out -- around the 5:30-6min mark, the Protoss should be expanding with that sort of build. If your SCV doesn't see the expo going down, alarm bells should be ringing that you need to slam out units and drop a bunch of bunkers (more than 2!) -- you would have had a full 3 minutes to prepare for the push, and could have had enough to stop it cold.
(Unnecessary edit, but inb4 others -- your reaction time for pulling SCVs to repair bunkers was super slow, partly because you didn't know the push was coming due to lack of recon, partly because the bunkers were a mile away from the CC, but mostly because your reaction to it was just flat out slow. This wasn't necessarily the cause of the loss, as macro issues, gas balancing, lack of recon, and tech indecision were the primary things, but the repair is vital to stopping that push, especially with a low bunker count. Just one more of a million things to keep in mind while improving. ^_^)
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EPT
