How to use Baneling Landmines Efficiently & Effectively
Hey TL! For my 2000th post, I'd like to make my first real contribution to the community with a guide. This guide will be focused on a tactic that most people agree is excellent, yet most Zergs do not incorporate into their play. I'm talking, of course, about Baneling Landmines.
Bang.
Introduction to Baneling Landmines
What are they? For those who don't already know, a Baneling Landmine is when a Zerg player burrows a Baneling, then detonates it when enemy units are on top of it using the Explode key (usually x).
When should I use them? Baneling Landmines are very situational. They must be employed much more conservatively and much more strategically when your enemy has an Observer, Overseer, or Raven. They should only be used against compositions which involve large numbers of Light units, such as Marines, Hellions, Sentries, High Templar, Zerglings, or Hydralisks. For these reasons, they are most commonly used in Zerg vs Terran against compositions which involve large amounts of Marines, since Zergs and Protosses will often keep an Overseer or Observer with their army. Their use in this situation will take up the majority of this guide. Baneling Landmines are most effective on large maps (such as Tal'Darim Altar) and maps with many chokes/obstacles (such as Crossfire)
Making your Landmines effective
Positioning Proper positioning of Landmines makes a huge difference in determining whether you get a hit or a miss with your mines. While proper placement does not guarantee a hit, it drastically increases your chances of getting one.
i. Basics - Hugging and Pathing
To understand proper placement, you also need to understand how the pathfinding in Starcraft 2 functions. It's very simple - units will always take the shortest path to their destination, and will hug walls and corners along the way to maximize their efficiency. What this means is that you should place your Landmines along those walls and corners on the path that you expect your opponent to take.
An example of poor placement
The image above shows where someone might place their Banelings in an attempt to get a good hit when a group of units. Their thinking might have been that the middle of the corridor was the most likely place for units to pass over - while it's wrong, I see this kind of thinking happen often. This placement defends nothing - the only time it would get a hit is if Terran is moving erratically or perhaps if Terran is attacking Zerg's third base or the 6 o'clock island, but if the third base were up there would likely be creep nearby and thus Terran would scan anyways to kill it off.
Much better.
This new placement is nearly guaranteed to have a group of units walk over it at some point in the game, unless your opponent scans it or decides to take the long route.
Let's look at another scenario:
ii. Placement in Open Areas
Cross Positions on Shattered Temple - not hugging the obstacle?!
This positioning breaks the rule mentioned above, which states that your Landmines should be placed hugging obstacles and walls along the path your opponent is most likely to take. While this position is not perfect, as it's possible for a player with no idea of the mines' presence to travel along a normal path and miss the mines completely. However, the mines defend both the path between your and his natural as well as the path between his natural and the right side of the Gold. While the area looks very open, his optimal paths are actually quite limited.
As you can see, there's really not that much room around them
To get around these, a player would need to manually curve their units (units won't do this naturally because it isn't the shortest path) around the Banelings, which is very unlikely, or would need to beeline to the far right side of the map (and they're pretty close to the banelings when doing this, as well), but there would be no reason for them to do this unless you have a base on the far right. Figuring out the placement here is a little trickier than the Scrap Station example because you have to consider the intersection of multiple possible paths, but it can still be done.
Finally, lets take a look at positioning multiple sets of mines:
iii. Spacing
They're all in good places on optimal paths, but there's something wrong: One scan can detect them all
Landmines should be placed in such a way that one scan can only ever detect one pair of Banelings - 270 minerals for 100 minerals and 50 gas of Banelings isn't a very good trade for Terran, but 200 minerals and 100 gas definitely is. You can still cover those paths, but you should space out your Landmines. Here's an example of better placement:
Covers the path to your third Covers the right-side path to the area in front of your natural Covers the left-side path to the area in front of your natural
All of these mines are spread out in such a way that no single scan can detect more than one pair, and they can cover the same paths as the previous setup. If there is enough room, you can set up multiple Banelings along the same path to force more scans out of Terran or get a hit after Terran clears out one set of mines and thinks it's safe to move ahead. This is why Landmines are more effective on large maps.
As a rule of thumb, a scan covers an area a couple spaces larger than the diameter of a creep tumor's spread:
P.S The scan is not to the left of the tumor as it may appear - the animation is higher than ground level
However, you cannot always predict enemy movement patterns: in those situations, you should employ a tactic called Luring:
Luring Luring is when you use a unit (or a group of units) as bait in order to get a group of enemy units to walk over your landmines. This tactic is important in situations where predicting enemy movement is difficult or impossible, or if your Banelings are placed in areas which are off the enemy's optimal path. Your enemy should see the bait as a free kill, unaware of the danger he's put his units into. Lures also give you vision around your mines, which helps when it comes to detonating them at a good time.
Pretty much the same idea
Here are some examples of effective lures:
i. Overlords
Overlords are my personal favourite when it comes to lures. They're cheap, they give you vision, they alert you automatically to the presence of the enemy and they run away automatically. Since they float away automatically, enemy units follow them directly on top of the Landmines and you have a good amount of forewarning so that you can react and detonate in time - I'll generally put an Overlord around every mine I place just for the added vision.
Overlord runs away, Marines give chase... Result
ii. Zerglings
A flock of zerglings is something you'll almost always have in ZvT (in other matchups, Roaches with speed can work too), and you can use off a small chunk of these Zerglings to lead your opponent into a set of mines. In order to keep your opponent on your tail, you should poke at his army with your lings, but never overcommit - dance in front of him, and waggle your chunk of units like a carrot in front of a rabbit, leading his army exactly where you want it. If he doesn't bite, no big deal - just regroup with the rest of your army and play as usual.
Attack... Retreat...
iii. Mutalisks
Mutalisks are a great lure, simply because they're fast, so they can get away almost unscathed, but expensive, fragile and annoying, so the enemy really, really wants them dead and will likely chase them in an attempt to get a kill. Same technique for Zerglings applies to Mutalisks - stay close enough to keep their attention, but far enough to not take too much damage, and you can lead your opponents units into your trap.
At this point I'm just throwing the detonations in because they're awesome
The next two lures are expensive and will probably die for the mine hit, so you might want supporting units (such as zerglings) hidden nearby to clean up after the explosion and increase the bait's chance of survival.
iv. Infestors
Infestors work because they're expensive, and thus they're a juicy target. However, they're slow and fragile, so you should be careful to react and run them away from the enemy units in time. Also, you should use drained Infestors - an Infestor with energy will probably scare the enemy away, not lure him towards your mines. Make sure you place your Infestor on top or a little bit behind your landmines so that you have a chance to escape, and consider having extra hidden units nearby to clean up any surviving enemy units as well as potentially save the Infestor. v. Brood Lords
Brood Lords are very similar to Infestors - they're expensive and slow. Place them behind your Banelings, because there's no way a Brood Lord can escape any enemy units, but try to also attract the enemy's attention to them however you can. If someone sees a lonely Brood Lord, they'll almost certainly try and pick it off. Also, consider keeping hidden units nearby to clean up and protect, same as with the Infestor.
Miscellaneous Stuff (Odds and Ends)
Opponent has detection? When your opponent has a Raven, Overseer, or Observer, you can still use Baneling landmines, but they're much more situational and you need to use them differently. You need to split up your opponents army, so that one half does not have detection and can still fall victim to the mines. Multi-pronged attacks or harassment are good ways of doing this.
Also, placing Banelings in the minerals lines of expansions you think your opponent is going to take, then detonating them once the mineral line is saturated can work if your opponent doesn't check them for burrowed units - however, if your opponent builds Cannons, or Turrets+Planetary Fortresses, or Spine+Spore crawlers (as players often do) at those bases and they complete before the base is saturated, your Landmines can end up doing nothing. However, the risk is miniscule compared to the potential reward.
How many Banelings to a set? A set of mines should be the minimum amount of Banelings you need to kill a group of the unit type you're targeting. Any more than that, and your landmines cost more for no real reason.
Unburrow vs Explode? Explode. Timing is extremely important when it comes to detonation, and unburrowing imposes a delay on that timing. Auto-Unburrow shouldn't be used for the same reason, unless your map awareness and multitasking is honestly that bad. Also, you want to detonate in the middle of the enemy units, but Auto-Unburrow means your Banelings will detonate on the outside of the enemy's group.
Incorporating them into a strategy? Burrowed Banelings are great because like DT's, they give you map control against someone without detection - any Terran player who wants to move outside his base needs to save scans to do so, or he runs the risk of losing all his Marines. You might be able to incorporate them into your play by taking a faster 3rd behind the landmines, although you would need to be aware of his Orbital Commands' energy and whether or not he has a Raven - I'll try this out and get back to you.
Why don't more people use them? They're not necessary to win, and they don't solve any problems. They're not a solid play - they're a risk, they won't always work. However, the risk is tiny (only a few minerals and gas), and the reward can sometimes be winning the game. For this reason, most players agree that Zergs should use them more often.
Coming Soon...
- After Season 3 starts, I'll start making placement guides for all the maps in the pool. - Things you suggest!
Thanks to Whole for helping me with the image grabs and for the tips, thank you for reading my guide!
Good stuff and a well constructed guide. A lot of this isn't groundbreaking and you might want to try and list even more specific strategies but this is really good and well designed intro to using baneling mines.
brilliant, something else i have to watch for against z. as if baneling bombs, burrowed infestors and roaches weren't enough. lol jk great and well written guide.
Sometimes it happens that you will lose an engagement (and as zerg it will often time mean you lose the game) that you would have won should you have those 6 banes that had been burrowed all game long during the fight and feel very stupid .
But once in a while, it works like a charm, and it's better than sex!
I've been trying to use them but most people are too lazy and zerg already has so many APM dumps, inject, creep spread, overlord spread, muta harass, macro. It really takes up all the stuff you can have, and adding burrowed banelings can be even more difficult for the zerg. I'm going to use them no matter what though. Thanks for the in-depth guide for baneling land mine usage.
Great guide. I've been thinking about incorporating baneling landmines before I go infestors or mutas in ZvT as a way of defending against the usual two base pre-spire timing.
thanks for the positive comments guys :D it really means a lot (Whole can tell you)
On July 26 2011 11:55 KimJongChill wrote: Great guide. I've been thinking about incorporating baneling landmines before I go infestors or mutas in ZvT as a way of defending against the usual two base pre-spire timing.
yeah I considered this as well, if you go 15 hatch 15 pool 17 gas and then with that gas you go speed -> baneling nest -> lair and then add more extractors when you start your lair and then when lair finishes get burrow immediately you can have it around that 10:00 push timing. however, you can't really use that to be any greedier because if Terran saves scans or prevents the mines from getting in place, you're kind of fucked. Maybe you can check for saved scans ahead of time with an ovie, though... it seems very map-dependent but it might work on maps like Xel'Naga or that stupid new lava map.
I enjoyed the humour and the facts. But! I did not like the overall topic, because I AM A TERRAN PLAYER. Oh well, I was starting to have ravens in that matchup anyawys.
Baneling landmines can win you the game easily. When those marines are gone it's pew pew for the mutalisks to clean everything up. I still don't understand why Zerg players use this more. In GSL I have seen every single pro player start doing the mines but not on ladder.
On July 26 2011 10:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Here are some examples of effective lures:
i. Overlords
Retard magnets, how I doth love thee.
On a more serious note, this is an excellent post. There are so many things like this in SC2 that remain largely unexplored (for every race, but mostly for Zerg, I feel) and should be standard play, but just... aren't. It makes me really excited for the future of the game, though, when you think about how awesome and entertaining it is as spectator sport right NOW, and then consider how much better it will be when exciting stuff like baneling mines, Ravens, and (dare I say it) Motherships see more regular use in play.
As the OP said, Baneling Mines are not a strategy you should ever count on to win you the game, but it's a pretty small investment for the potentially massive payoff, particularly in the mid-late game where resources are plentiful.
edit: That VOD does not appear to be ready quite yet, but the link is right for whenever it fully uploads to the archive.
On July 26 2011 11:55 KimJongChill wrote: Great guide. I've been thinking about incorporating baneling landmines before I go infestors or mutas in ZvT as a way of defending against the usual two base pre-spire timing.
yeah I considered this as well, if you go 15 hatch 15 pool 17 gas and then with that gas you go speed -> baneling nest -> lair and then add more extractors when you start your lair and then when lair finishes get burrow immediately you can have it around that 10:00 push timing. however, you can't really use that to be any greedier because if Terran saves scans or prevents the mines from getting in place, you're kind of fucked. Maybe you can check for saved scans ahead of time with an ovie, though... it seems very map-dependent but it might work on maps like Xel'Naga or that stupid new lava map.
Oh wow, that's pretty fleshed out. Against that timing, I've read that roach/ling/bane is strong, since saving money for muta/infestor will get you killed. However, I like to idea of just having the mines out for some extra punch, and it's always nice to delay attacks as zerg, since I can't tell you how many times I've been caught pants down after a huge 12 drone cycle.
There's a huge advantage you didn't cover in the OP, although your guide is good, in that after you've revealed your baneling land mines, you effectively have a pin on the terran, much like Dark Templar for protoss. They can't leave their base until they save up a bunch of scans (and they stop dropping mules) or until they have ravens out, so just using them at all can be a great delaying tactic to take another base or tech/mass up, even if you don't get kills with them.
Great guide! I think the minimal cost is definitely worth making the terran build a raven or spend potentially infinite scans, especially since he'd probably be wasting scans on places where banelings aren't, too.
Nicely done guide. I'm an infested Terran at times and when I play Zerg I love zerglings. Anything to make my lings more scary.
Afaik, GSL is the only tourney play, I've seen, where a player uses banemines. It's like you said very situational risk that can become a huge pay out. Better call to the heart of the cards for it to pay out or at least gain valuable scouting info.
Just outside the terran's natural (Most terrans do not scan at all until they first hit creep or are halfway across the map.)
Luring using infestors. I think baiting with infestors, you actually want to use an infestor with one fungal so that any marines that do not die to the landmine will be severely injured.
On July 26 2011 13:23 dlcofls21 wrote: Something I do in almost all of my TvZ's is burrow 2 sets of 2 blings at the Terran's 3rd base mineral line. After they transfer then Boom!
Good guide btw :3.
Yeah! I try to do it in other match ups too, but Protoss sometimes have cannons up before there's a worthwhile amount of probes there. I've killed a ton of drones though.
I've always thought that landmines were a very underutilized tactic in ZvT. I think they even have a place in midgame ZvZ. Anyway, great guide with awesome pictures
Wow! This is a very well-thought out and useful guide! Some of these are common knowledge, but some of these are actually quite interesting. For instance, I was unaware that a scan was floating off the ground like that when placed.
On July 26 2011 13:06 Whitewing wrote: There's a huge advantage you didn't cover in the OP, although your guide is good, in that after you've revealed your baneling land mines, you effectively have a pin on the terran, much like Dark Templar for protoss. They can't leave their base until they save up a bunch of scans (and they stop dropping mules) or until they have ravens out, so just using them at all can be a great delaying tactic to take another base or tech/mass up, even if you don't get kills with them.
looking forward to placement guides on different maps according to normal pathing..
i dislike luring with OLs, most times marines dont follow them , just a few, and concaved.. i think the best option is mutas.. vulnerable mutas will make any terran stim and move (instead of a moving wich causes concave = less damage) so you get optimun damage!
also,the scan that shows 3 banes..its only wrong if they all die... i liked that position, the 3 most common paths are covered.. anyway,if the oppoenet scans 1 set,they ll now you are using them so will be extra carefull and scan a lot more
really simple thing, but i'm very glad you took the time to make a thought out and well constructed guide. Landmines are certainly one of zergs most underused tools
Now that I get burrow for Infestors so often, I'm definitely looking into getting good at utilizing baneling mines. It takes practice, for sure, but it's worth it when it works.
Hey, thanks for the guide. Landmines are a super good thing to use vs. Terran especially. I started using landmines before deciding to main as Protoss and this thread is super helpful to optimizing your banelings.
I dunno if any of you have done this, but I've tried it recently and found it to be really good sometimes. Burrow like 6 banelings in the mineral line of the next expo for your opponent to take. It's more risky than a regular landmine, but the payoff can be really good.
This is like doing an baneling drop on workers, but doesn't require you to research drop. It also doesn't rely on the element of hoping your opponent doesn't react and your banelings won't (can't) target static defense like cannons, resulting in no probe kills. However, this is more risky than a drop because if he gets static defense in range, you can lose your banelings for nothing.
Here is an picture which I edited in 30 seconds to demonstrate how to utilize this speshul taktik.
This is especially good if you can catch the workers as they transfer, because they will be stacked on top of each other. Also, +2 banelings kill a worker in 1 shot, so you can use like 3 banelings to cover an expo. This works really well for me because I play an upgrade ling/bling/muta style ZvT.
This list is actually not 100% accurate - it takes 9 banelings to kill a stalker, for instance, assuming no upgrades on either unit, because the unit armor DOES affect baneling damage. I'll work on a write-up of important markers and such, including various attack/armor upgrade.
They are really not used much. I used them from time to time but stopped recently.. Idk why but lets do this again.
The ovi magnet is really a good idea! I tried it with mutalisks but it's not that easy like it seems. (for me)
Also you might add effect of upgrades to the post.
Also there ae various posibilities to snipe the opponents detection. Corruptor killing a raven quite quickly. (Terran has to switch tech lab to produce a new one) Also a force of 3 Corruptor + Overseer is great for sniping Observers. (Protoss have to cut robotics production)
One interesting concept, to further build upon the pre-mining of 3rd bases, is that with a certain about of banelings, 3 I think, you can instantly cancel a nexus, hatch or CC. Like with the pre-mining, you need to make sure that the banelings are near the mineral line, but near enough to be VERY close to the command center. Then hit auto-attack building, auto unborrow, and watch as your opponents center gets instantly gibbed.
However, I don't recal exactly how many you need, but I have a feeling its a low number.
Oh, wow. Nothing else in this thread was really new to me in concept, but that method of insta-killing an expo is pretty funny. I don't think banelings will auto-unburrow to hit buildings, though, so you'd just have to pay a lot of attention.So, I'd say 2-3 banelings to take out the structure, depending on your reaction time.
Logistics aside, I would tend to think it would be more beneficial to wait for a worker transfer instead.
Scenario A) You kill the structure immediately, making them lose 400 minerals and denying the expansion for a short period.
Scenario B) You wait for a worker transfer, and, assuming say 20 workers transferred and killed, you cost him 1000 minerals, PLUS 1/3 of his workers (assuming ~50-60 workers at the point in the game where he's taking a third).
Scenario A is a brief annoyance most of the time - Scenario B has the potential to be an instant GG.
Good location - Destructible rocks. This is basically the idea of putting a dragon on top of the rocks to guard them
It has been a while since I used borrowed bane since the infestor buff, but I remember a few good games in which I put a lot of borrowed banelings in the mid-late game near destructible rocks - terran would almost never scan there, position his army on the patch to the rocks, or around the rocks themselves, and a moment later there was no army to speak of.
I have always loved using baneling mines when I got the chance too, Useally just on ramps or on the Xel towers, I really like the Overlord lure but it really seems like a one shot thing to me, Atleast if I fell for that I wouldn't fall for it twice in the same game. I think people under use baneling mines, In a game with a Terran I only had 2 Banelings on each Xel, Which caused the terran to scan the Xels befor he position his Tanks/Marines around it, If I can cause a Terran to lose his mules for 150/50+Burrow tech I'm going to do it. I have also tried burrowing banelings 'to nuke' transfering workers and it hasn't worked out for me yet, Most late game Protoss/Terran place cannons/Pf+Turrets befor transfering. I've also been working on a build to get burrow banelings out at the earliest time I can to stop certain Terran pushes, Its really hard to get placement right -.-'.
Oh I love baneling mines. I really do need to use them a lot more I've done it in some games with hilarious results (Meatgrinder achievement hell yes!)
overall great guide, I just have one small disagreement
you advocate for always using explode rather than unburrow, but imo there are some cases where unburrow is better. the advantages of unburrow are:
-if you have more banelings than it takes to kill the units they wont all die -if the above happens and there are left over enemy units then the remaining banelings can target them -if the enemy is on attack move they will move closer to the banelings and you can often get more units in your area of effect -similarly when banelings unburrow they will push enemy units and other banelings out of the way, creating a better circle around them for their splash with less overlap
that being said you're also right that unlike explode it has a delay, so you have to make a judgement call of which to use based on the scenario.
PS - if marines stim it only takes 1 bling so u dont need to waste the other on the same ones
What about burrowing them in potential expansions? Not where the CC will land, but where the SCVs will be? I saw Spanishiwa do this recently, and thought it was brilliant, though I'm not the biggest fan of spanishiwa.
Wow. This. Is. Scary. That overlord trick will definitely get me. As Protoss I like to shark around mid game and specifically kill stray overlords. Looks like Im going to have to be much more careful. Banelings took the place of lurkers, this is why!! O.o
I think you missed the point against T with no detection. The spare zerglings around the map should be made into banelings and placed into reinforcement lines from the Terran. Especially when they take a foothold somewhere in the middle of the map and scan for your first lot of mines. Terrans rarely scan somewhere they have scanned before.....
great guide! Another thing I use burrowed banelings for is, instead of blocking a terran's 3rd with 1 burrowed ling, I burrow 4 banelings in the mineral line, so I can kill all his transferring SCVs. I find the risk of losing the banelings is worth the potentional mugh higher damage you can cause, than just from delaying the expansion.
another reason to either always have ravens und ghosts in TvZ or simply switch to zerg...but damn, that writeup IS sexy. reminds me of a cracked.com article.
Ahah, that was a really nice reading Good to see a guilde that will actually be useful to some players. But man, as a Terran player i hate you with passion sir
the most important thing about baneling mines, which i see numerous people fuck up, is dont put them on creep. if you are forcing the terran to scan to remove tumours anyway dont leave your banelings in the same place.
On July 26 2011 21:28 PopcornColonel wrote: What about burrowing them in potential expansions? Not where the CC will land, but where the SCVs will be? I saw Spanishiwa do this recently, and thought it was brilliant, though I'm not the biggest fan of spanishiwa.
I was just about to bring this up actually. It could be quite smart to do. It's something that a lot of pros have talked about or considered using more common too. Artosis has even brought it up to discuss before during a GSL cast.
4 banelings placed right in the mineral line would do wonders, and it's one of the last places a person would check for them too. Although a Protoss with early robo might get luck and just happen to notice it with an observer.
Burrowing banelings while retreating is also great! Especially since during the retreat, in a mass of banelings, the enemy can't spot the burrowing animation of only two banelings.
Up to an extent, I disagree with the placement on Scrap Station - assuming that you play muta/ling/bling, the enemy might avoid the edges to prevent mutalisks from picking off free units.
One thing that I've found extremely effective- when on maps that Xel'Naga towers are a frequent path of traverse by the enemy army, burrow them there, and leave a zergling at the tower. With that ling, you'll have vision of a large radius. Also, when the enemy attacks it, you'll get a verbal warning and won't miss exploding them due to being unaware.
I'll start on the map guides since Season 3 has started. Thanks for the suggestions and positive comments!
On July 26 2011 21:47 Oboeman wrote: Do you recommend putting each set of landmines on their own control group for easy detonation, or is it all minimap and clicking?
If you have spare control groups it can't hurt, but most of the time you can just box them under the enemy units -> explode
On July 26 2011 23:52 I)etox wrote: Maybe guides like these will finally force ravens to become mandatory in TvZ, or at the very least more common.
I'd love to be a part of making Terran players use Ravens ^__________________^ having one around is so useful.
On July 27 2011 00:41 Savci wrote: Up to an extent, I disagree with the placement on Scrap Station - assuming that you play muta/ling/bling, the enemy might avoid the edges to prevent mutalisks from picking off free units.
well, Scrap Station is dead anyways I was just using it's pathing as an example. but I agree, it might not be the best example
On July 26 2011 13:46 HornSnHaloS wrote: Great guide, burrow blings are something that i think will work their way into every muta/ling game.
I hope so, at least until Terrans start making Ravens. I figure that most people have tried it, but maybe it didn't hit anything because they were poorly placed, so they abandoned it - that's why I wrote this guide!
Again, I'm getting onto the map guides now, I should have at least one or two done by the end of the day.
I would also mention the possibility of burrowing a couple of baneling durings a fight. No risk your opponent will ever see it; and then the battle is over, he goes straight into the banelings if he has won.
Good Post. However I would argue about the sign - detonate for marines, dont detonate for roaches. Banes are worth detonating most of the time given that you hit 3 - 5 units. Even roaches or terran's mech.
Nice guide! Something I think most people forget or don't realize is that Baneling splash damage is equal regardless of unit proximity to the Baneling (unlike Siege Tank's splash which does less damage the further away a unit is from the source of the splash).
So, while most people do tend to put two Banelings together, they should actually space them out slightly more to maximize on the splash damage!
about infesters, can't you just also use burrow move to run away rather than _needing_ support units (as well as fungal could also be "fun" with banelings)
I don't have any idea if anyone does this, but a friend recently suggested to me burrowing some banelings at the mineral line where your opponent is likely to place his third, or natural, if he's far behind.
I'd like to try this, but I have too much of a problem remembering it in the midst of everything...
Man thank you so much for an amazing quality Write up that is so frikking usefull I feel they arent even used as much anymore and its just awesome when your enemy gets caught by suprise on dem burrow banes!!
Nice guide, I think especially because several pros have said that baneling landmines are underused and would be good to incorporate into their own play more that this guide will make alot more people see how they can be a real game changer, especially with those large marine/tank pushes.
To those of you saying that Banelings can also be used vs non-light targets, keep in mind that it takes a lot more Banelings to kill or critically damage non-light targets, so while the reward can be greater, you also need to use more banelings which increases the risk, Banelings are cheap, but they still cost gas and larva which can get strained if you're not careful with those resources.
To those of you talking about Banelings in the mineral lines. They can be pretty good against a ladder player, but a good player will notice how structures are blocked. At least a Zerg will because they often put crawlers in the mineral line. And since you're using a lot more banelings, the risk is greater. Personally, I wouldn't incorporate it into my player because it is too cheesy. A tournament player can probably use it if he is good at tilting his opponent with mind games though. That idea about using banelings to auto-cancel a Nexus right when it starts up was pretty cool though.
On July 27 2011 07:17 zhurai wrote: about infesters, can't you just also use burrow move to run away rather than _needing_ support units (as well as fungal could also be "fun" with banelings)
(idk if this has been pointed out before tho)
Burrow move would cause the terran to scan and see the baneling mines, or stop pursuit.
And don't forget, when luring, don't make it as painfully obvious as the picture. In a real game, make it look more subtle than a random energyless Infestor sitting there. It'd be hard to go through all of the ways to make it look real, so just keep that in mind.
Unburrow vs Explode? Explode. Timing is extremely important when it comes to detonation, and unburrowing imposes a delay on that timing. Auto-Unburrow shouldn't be used for the same reason, unless your map awareness and multitasking is honestly that bad. Also, you want to detonate in the middle of the enemy units, but Auto-Unburrow means your Banelings will detonate on the outside of the enemy's group.
i think unburrow is better for large groups. then you will not overkill marines and remaining banes will attack units outside of the explosion range.
Unburrow vs Explode? Explode. Timing is extremely important when it comes to detonation, and unburrowing imposes a delay on that timing. Auto-Unburrow shouldn't be used for the same reason, unless your map awareness and multitasking is honestly that bad. Also, you want to detonate in the middle of the enemy units, but Auto-Unburrow means your Banelings will detonate on the outside of the enemy's group.
i think unburrow is better for large groups. then you will not overkill marines and remaining banes will attack units outside of the explosion range.
psystarcraft also said that in one of his vids.
It depends on how much Blings you use for a mine. Normally you use two because of how cheap it is and how much it can kill. You rarely need more because you should be able to clean up unless you're getting outmacro'd on crazy levels. I don't know the autocast unburrow mechanic, but it wouldn't seem optimal. Like wouldn't the banelings hit the first target they see and not the marines.
Big baneling mine user here and I think you should add that hiding them on creep, especially on the limit, is not a good idea because terrans will very often scan to clean up tumors! Apart from that, good guide, can't wait for Map placements :-)
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