EPT[G] Doc's Somewhat Definitive Guide to TvZ - Page 14
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Johnzee
United States216 Posts
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positron.
634 Posts
1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors? 2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game. 3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play. 4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On October 01 2011 14:50 positron. wrote: Couple of questions regarding the Korean transition out of 2 rax FE. 1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors? 2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game. 3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play. 4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings. 2. You really need to scout what the zerg is doing before making that 10 minute push. If you scan and see mass zergling incoming (no lair or it just started, evo chambers for upgrades, no baneling nest or roaches), then you will die if you try that attack. You should take a fast third and do a lot of drops, because mass zergling will flat out destroy any 3 tank 10 minute push you try. However, if you scout them not going mass zergling (lair, baneling nest, roaches, mutas, infestors, or anything not zergling-related), then thats when you should do that push. You should be able to deny a 3rd every time, and maybe even kill them outright. 3. I don't know why it doesn't work for you, it normally should. Maybe you aren't target-firing the infestors with tanks when the engagement happens? 4. Have your tanks seiged up a little bit away, so that if zerglings try to kill the marines that are killing creep, then you just run back into your seige line and they lose a of zerglings. | ||
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
On September 30 2011 20:55 deathtrance wrote: So what's your opinion on making reactors with the barracks nerf? Seemingly now from only 10 seconds longer, it's become 15 seconds longer, and that sounds a bit longer and less appealing to not be without production for those 15 extra seconds. Shouldn't really make a difference for me, though, as a gold player. Just wondering if reactors are still kinda useless. EDIT: any new replays with the new patch? They're not totally useless, they're good when going you're about to saturate a new base or real late game and I think I'm going to be using them more often as well b/c of the rax time nerf. I have a few replays but I don't think too many notable players...I've been working out TvT lately. On October 01 2011 14:50 positron. wrote: Couple of questions regarding the Korean transition out of 2 rax FE. 1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors? 2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game. 3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play. 4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings. Viking --> clears air space for drops, snipes ovies, scouts 2. covered in guide 3. you don't necessarily want to prespread. Your DPS is limited as your marines, if too spread out, let lings get good surface area and marine's aren't all attacking. Covered in guide how to actually do it. 4. you're supposed to do it after nogas from Z and thus, they won't have speedlings to kill you. edit: Also, I've added that the SlayerS style is best against nogas Z as they rely on spines at front and you will abuse by dropping in main. | ||
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
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Szubie
United Kingdom294 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
On October 02 2011 17:20 CatNzHat wrote: Reactors are worth it imho, 15 seconds is basically how long it takes for a round of lings to pop, so if you're doing a timing push, it's better to add reactors than more rax if you plan on hitting after your production is done, but again, reactors vs more rax will always be a decision that you have to make based on what's going on in the game, I used to favor naked rax over reactors pretty much any day of the week, but lately I've found that they have a pretty damn good use, and you can drop a faster third gas which gives you more options as far as tech goes, and you don't have to sacrifice your marine count, as you can save 200 minz by dropping a couple reactors instead of 2 more rax. Yeah that's pretty much how I feel as well, but some maps I like the naked rax for their walling capabilities as well. | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
I'm thinking about building a sensor tower so I can spot his mutas ahead of time. Halp D: I hate constant mass muta players who decide to harass me when I'm halfway across the map to push. They'll magic box over thors too >.> 30 mutas is a pain in the ass to deal with. | ||
RxDamitol
United States83 Posts
Great guide!! cheers! | ||
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Wizard4k
Germany4 Posts
. Do you know if there is anything comparable for TvP and TvT? | ||
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Sugoi_TaiR
4 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
GG mate. | ||
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positron.
634 Posts
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
I prefer the 12/14 rax myself (I usually don't go for a Bunker though), going in with 3 or 6 marines to see if I can punish a greedy Zerg. It feels much more comfortable against a Roach rush then a straight up Reactor Hellion build as Hellions don't do much against Roaches. The Hellions can ofcourse roast Drones and/or Zerglings but once speed is out aren't they in a similar position as marines would be and be forced to go home? | ||
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
On October 12 2011 22:04 Thezzy wrote: Are there any reasons why one would one want to go Reactor Hellion instead of 2rax? I prefer the 12/14 rax myself (I usually don't go for a Bunker though), going in with 3 or 6 marines to see if I can punish a greedy Zerg. It feels much more comfortable against a Roach rush then a straight up Reactor Hellion build as Hellions don't do much against Roaches. The Hellions can ofcourse roast Drones and/or Zerglings but once speed is out aren't they in a similar position as marines would be and be forced to go home? Reactor helion is definitely better than 2rax higher levels against good Zs (though 2rax isn't at all useless, look at MVP v Nestea games this and last season). The reason is, good Zs spread creep really, really well. Imagine playing against Coca and not being able to stop his creep spread. The reactor helions give you the advantage in that they can deny creep the entire game unless he makes roaches or mutas. With proper care of your helions outside his natural, he shouldn't be able to take them out with just lings. Yeah it's easier holding a roach rush with 2rax and like day9 says, you're getting units you're going to use the entire game (marines). If you want I can write down the builds I do per map almost everytime: Reactor Helion: Metal, shattered, antiga 2rax: XNC Reaper expand: Typhon, shak, nerazim Nogas FE in to BF Helions: Taldarim, shak, antiga But back when I was still learning I'd just 2rax every map but then started adding in reaper expand and then reactor helion. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
As for the 2rax, I prefer the 12/14 rax as it doesn't cut any SCVs. Ofcourse the attack does show up a little later as a result. Do you prefer the 11/11 rax or 12/14 rax, what is your experience between these two? | ||
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
On October 13 2011 21:03 Thezzy wrote: I'm still definitely in the learning part, I'll stick with a 2rax for now until I'm comfortable with Hellions. As for the 2rax, I prefer the 12/14 rax as it doesn't cut any SCVs. Ofcourse the attack does show up a little later as a result. Do you prefer the 11/11 rax or 12/14 rax, what is your experience between these two? 11/12 if you want to do a lot of damage on a short map 12/14 if you just want to put on light pressure force lings and maybe a spine and such. | ||
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Sjk1
United Kingdom22 Posts
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