• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:30
CET 06:30
KST 14:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30
Tourneys
SC2 iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ List of top players active on ShieldBattery Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Playlenda
Playlendapro
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12327 users

[G] Doc's Somewhat Definitive Guide to TvZ - Page 14

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 Next All
Johnzee
Profile Joined April 2011
United States216 Posts
September 30 2011 13:59 GMT
#261
Love this thread, my TvZ is my worst matchup because I don't understand Marine/Tank play like I should. Very, very helpful - I'm improving!
“A children's story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children's story in the slightest.” - C.S. Lewis
positron.
Profile Joined May 2010
634 Posts
October 01 2011 05:50 GMT
#262
Couple of questions regarding the Korean transition out of 2 rax FE.

1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors?

2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game.

3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play.

4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings.
kofman
Profile Joined August 2011
Andorra698 Posts
October 01 2011 06:00 GMT
#263
On October 01 2011 14:50 positron. wrote:
Couple of questions regarding the Korean transition out of 2 rax FE.

1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors?

2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game.

3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play.

4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings.


2. You really need to scout what the zerg is doing before making that 10 minute push. If you scan and see mass zergling incoming (no lair or it just started, evo chambers for upgrades, no baneling nest or roaches), then you will die if you try that attack. You should take a fast third and do a lot of drops, because mass zergling will flat out destroy any 3 tank 10 minute push you try. However, if you scout them not going mass zergling (lair, baneling nest, roaches, mutas, infestors, or anything not zergling-related), then thats when you should do that push. You should be able to deny a 3rd every time, and maybe even kill them outright.

3. I don't know why it doesn't work for you, it normally should. Maybe you aren't target-firing the infestors with tanks when the engagement happens?

4. Have your tanks seiged up a little bit away, so that if zerglings try to kill the marines that are killing creep, then you just run back into your seige line and they lose a of zerglings.

The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 06:09:28
October 02 2011 06:08 GMT
#264
On September 30 2011 20:55 deathtrance wrote:
So what's your opinion on making reactors with the barracks nerf? Seemingly now from only 10 seconds longer, it's become 15 seconds longer, and that sounds a bit longer and less appealing to not be without production for those 15 extra seconds. Shouldn't really make a difference for me, though, as a gold player. Just wondering if reactors are still kinda useless.

EDIT: any new replays with the new patch?


They're not totally useless, they're good when going you're about to saturate a new base or real late game and I think I'm going to be using them more often as well b/c of the rax time nerf.

I have a few replays but I don't think too many notable players...I've been working out TvT lately.

On October 01 2011 14:50 positron. wrote:
Couple of questions regarding the Korean transition out of 2 rax FE.

1) Why would you get vikings if you see infestors?

2) When do you push out? I usually do reactor hellion expand then attack with 3 tanks at 10 min. Sometimes they lose their natural and sometimes they beat me straight up and proceed to win the game.

3) How do you micro against infestors? Against mutaling/bling I know to pre spread marines, poke in with a small group while leap frogging tanks into positions but this doesn't seem to work against infestors play.

4) You said after get 5 or 6 marines deny creep spread but how do I do that? If I send out 5 or 6 they will just kill my marines with speedlings.


Viking --> clears air space for drops, snipes ovies, scouts

2. covered in guide

3. you don't necessarily want to prespread. Your DPS is limited as your marines, if too spread out, let lings get good surface area and marine's aren't all attacking. Covered in guide how to actually do it.

4. you're supposed to do it after nogas from Z and thus, they won't have speedlings to kill you.

edit: Also, I've added that the SlayerS style is best against nogas Z as they rely on spines at front and you will abuse by dropping in main.
The Boss.
The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
October 02 2011 06:28 GMT
#265
Few more recent reps : http://www.2shared.com/file/l8tzhqGb/Taldarim_Altar_LE__15_.html
The Boss.
Szubie
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom294 Posts
October 02 2011 07:49 GMT
#266
Thanks a lot for this guide, I've really been struggling in tvz in particular, really helped out
IMMvp, Maru
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
October 02 2011 08:20 GMT
#267
Reactors are worth it imho, 15 seconds is basically how long it takes for a round of lings to pop, so if you're doing a timing push, it's better to add reactors than more rax if you plan on hitting after your production is done, but again, reactors vs more rax will always be a decision that you have to make based on what's going on in the game, I used to favor naked rax over reactors pretty much any day of the week, but lately I've found that they have a pretty damn good use, and you can drop a faster third gas which gives you more options as far as tech goes, and you don't have to sacrifice your marine count, as you can save 200 minz by dropping a couple reactors instead of 2 more rax.
The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
October 02 2011 15:49 GMT
#268
On October 02 2011 17:20 CatNzHat wrote:
Reactors are worth it imho, 15 seconds is basically how long it takes for a round of lings to pop, so if you're doing a timing push, it's better to add reactors than more rax if you plan on hitting after your production is done, but again, reactors vs more rax will always be a decision that you have to make based on what's going on in the game, I used to favor naked rax over reactors pretty much any day of the week, but lately I've found that they have a pretty damn good use, and you can drop a faster third gas which gives you more options as far as tech goes, and you don't have to sacrifice your marine count, as you can save 200 minz by dropping a couple reactors instead of 2 more rax.


Yeah that's pretty much how I feel as well, but some maps I like the naked rax for their walling capabilities as well.
The Boss.
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 16:43:38
October 02 2011 16:42 GMT
#269
I want to break my computer right now because I can't seem to deal with zergs who can hold off early pressure, make 30 mutas, and gain map control, and double expand while he confines me to two base. I can't seem to find the magical technique to fend off muta harass on 3+ bases. I can't move out because his mutas always then move in and begin to ravage my tanks or production while he expands more and masses up a 200/200 army.

I'm thinking about building a sensor tower so I can spot his mutas ahead of time. Halp D: I hate constant mass muta players who decide to harass me when I'm halfway across the map to push.

They'll magic box over thors too >.> 30 mutas is a pain in the ass to deal with.
WorstMicroNA
RxDamitol
Profile Joined February 2011
United States83 Posts
October 02 2011 20:57 GMT
#270
thank you thank you thank you!

Great guide!!

cheers!
Greedy beats Safe, Safe beats Cheesy, and Cheesy beats Greedy.
Wizard4k
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany4 Posts
October 03 2011 22:26 GMT
#271
Wow, absolutely godly post. I am working on it hard, chose the 12/14 Rax into either Korean (large maps) or 2 Fact Siege Tank (close positions) to start with. It's not easy to get it done correctly, but even when I miss my macro hard, I still know the builds are so damn good .
Do you know if there is anything comparable for TvP and TvT?
Sugoi_TaiR
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
October 08 2011 17:24 GMT
#272
How well does the heavy bio opening work( MM + 1/1 upgrade)?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 08 2011 17:28 GMT
#273
Just gotta say I wish this was the level of quality of every guide on TL. I've switched to Toss since this guide came out and even though Toss is prolly the best overall documented race on TL there is not a single guide that matches this one for Toss.

GG mate.
positron.
Profile Joined May 2010
634 Posts
October 11 2011 23:17 GMT
#274
Is it bad to go mass turrets if you see mass mutas? I am tired of seeing those suckers hit my base when my army go out; especially on large maps. If map is small enough I just make marines to defend the harrass until my main army hit their base and hope that it will force the mutas back.

The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
October 12 2011 05:12 GMT
#275
Mid game you wouldn't want mass turrets maybe 3-5 depending on the map when mutas are out but when you're ready to push with a large army, Z will always fly mutas in to your base to try to force you back so then you'd need a lot more turrets, 3-4 per base and sometimes I leave a few marines in the base too and then use rallying marines to clean up the rest of the mutas if they stil don't go back
The Boss.
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
October 12 2011 13:04 GMT
#276
Are there any reasons why one would one want to go Reactor Hellion instead of 2rax?

I prefer the 12/14 rax myself (I usually don't go for a Bunker though), going in with 3 or 6 marines to see if I can punish a greedy Zerg.
It feels much more comfortable against a Roach rush then a straight up Reactor Hellion build as Hellions don't do much against Roaches.

The Hellions can ofcourse roast Drones and/or Zerglings but once speed is out aren't they in a similar position as marines would be and be forced to go home?
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
October 12 2011 16:44 GMT
#277
On October 12 2011 22:04 Thezzy wrote:
Are there any reasons why one would one want to go Reactor Hellion instead of 2rax?

I prefer the 12/14 rax myself (I usually don't go for a Bunker though), going in with 3 or 6 marines to see if I can punish a greedy Zerg.
It feels much more comfortable against a Roach rush then a straight up Reactor Hellion build as Hellions don't do much against Roaches.

The Hellions can ofcourse roast Drones and/or Zerglings but once speed is out aren't they in a similar position as marines would be and be forced to go home?


Reactor helion is definitely better than 2rax higher levels against good Zs (though 2rax isn't at all useless, look at MVP v Nestea games this and last season). The reason is, good Zs spread creep really, really well. Imagine playing against Coca and not being able to stop his creep spread. The reactor helions give you the advantage in that they can deny creep the entire game unless he makes roaches or mutas. With proper care of your helions outside his natural, he shouldn't be able to take them out with just lings. Yeah it's easier holding a roach rush with 2rax and like day9 says, you're getting units you're going to use the entire game (marines).

If you want I can write down the builds I do per map almost everytime:

Reactor Helion: Metal, shattered, antiga
2rax: XNC
Reaper expand: Typhon, shak, nerazim
Nogas FE in to BF Helions: Taldarim, shak, antiga

But back when I was still learning I'd just 2rax every map but then started adding in reaper expand and then reactor helion.
The Boss.
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
October 13 2011 12:03 GMT
#278
I'm still definitely in the learning part, I'll stick with a 2rax for now until I'm comfortable with Hellions.
As for the 2rax, I prefer the 12/14 rax as it doesn't cut any SCVs.
Ofcourse the attack does show up a little later as a result.

Do you prefer the 11/11 rax or 12/14 rax, what is your experience between these two?
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
The.Doctor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada333 Posts
October 13 2011 17:37 GMT
#279
On October 13 2011 21:03 Thezzy wrote:
I'm still definitely in the learning part, I'll stick with a 2rax for now until I'm comfortable with Hellions.
As for the 2rax, I prefer the 12/14 rax as it doesn't cut any SCVs.
Ofcourse the attack does show up a little later as a result.

Do you prefer the 11/11 rax or 12/14 rax, what is your experience between these two?


11/12 if you want to do a lot of damage on a short map 12/14 if you just want to put on light pressure force lings and maybe a spine and such.
The Boss.
Sjk1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom22 Posts
October 13 2011 19:29 GMT
#280
Thanks very much for this, appreciate it very much so, helps a TON! :D
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
ISSL: Premier - Final Day
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 204
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43524
GuemChi 1406
Rain 1287
Bale 34
ZergMaN 29
Noble 22
Icarus 7
Force[name] 6
League of Legends
JimRising 642
Counter-Strike
xp34
Other Games
summit1g10126
Coldzera 805
WinterStarcraft356
XaKoH 294
C9.Mang0242
Maynarde101
NeuroSwarm83
Mew2King61
ViBE47
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick797
BasetradeTV162
Counter-Strike
PGL54
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota282
League of Legends
• Rush1169
• Lourlo910
• Stunt277
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 30m
WardiTV Invitational
6h 30m
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
OSC
17h 30m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
PiGosaur Cup
19h 30m
INu's Battles
1d 6h
ByuN vs Classic
3D!Clan Event
1d 11h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
4 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.