EPT[G] Doc's Somewhat Definitive Guide to TvZ - Page 13
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
gastro54
23 Posts
| ||
|
The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
On August 19 2011 19:46 DH_Remorse wrote: I dunno , as a Masters Random/zerg player I find that your builds seem kinda bad , vs any allin-ish play , If i for example did the fake speedling expand on Tal'Darim Alter , im not sure how you would stop it ? Maybe add a thread / spoiler for "How to stop speedling flood all-in"?  Lol but I'm not teaching one single build. I'm teaching diffferent openers and transitions and what to look for from zerg before transitioning so you can have the best counter to what they're doing. | ||
|
Sovern
United States312 Posts
| ||
|
RamonMcGrady
33 Posts
I'm a high gold T, so I mostly suck, but still, a question came up on a situation I found myself in on playing a game just now. So I play this game in Shakuras, crossed positions (me 11 o'clock, him 5 o'clock), where i do the usual bunker, i manage to get 2 of them up between his main and his natural and kill a lot of zerglings and even the hatch, without losing a single marine. I go up the ramp and i see two spines done and i see roaches amassing, so i get down the ramp immediatly with my 12 or so marines, salvage the bunkers and get the hell out of there, leaving an scv at his entrance to see when he gets out with his roaches, and to get a count to. He gets out eventually and it felt all-inish. Going back to my main, i have a factory up, without techlab, and 3 rax, one working on stim already. 2 gases are up, but i just have less than 100gas. So i have to make a decision and i put a couple of bunkers when i see about 8 roach on the middle of the map, while pumping up several marauder to help defend, as I thought I wasn't able to get enough tanks in time, and that my marines would have gotten crushed by that force. My question is: what do you think about the decision making? Did I read it bad and had enough time to get a couple of tanks up or was it ok to get the marauder? Thanks a lot for your time and patience! | ||
|
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
pa-lease @ the guy above me, upload the replay impossible to tell from what you described. For one, we have no idea at what point in time all this happens. Upload the replay and it will tell us alot! | ||
|
RamonMcGrady
33 Posts
http://drop.sc/29119 Beware of it...i'm bad! I just need some validation from other players that i'm doing ok, or not and what should i change. | ||
|
RockStarCrft
Turkey470 Posts
 | ||
|
sobchak
Germany3 Posts
Just wanted to add two things for the reactors. 1) Regarding the good old marine-tank timing push, I believe that the emperor made a pretty good job with the reactors at TSL. If you analyze his play a little bit, you can see that he always gets a third rax with his first 150 minerals and adds two refineries right after that (you need to have a good number of marines so you can defend if the zerg goes for something tricky). Now, Boxer gets his tech lab immediately on this third rax for stim and then goes for two reactors on the first two raxes. After the standard three barracks, he adds the factory/tech lab for siege tanks and makes the first medivac from a naked starport. You can now pressure with the standard mix and throw down two additional reactor-barracks and take your third. Take a look at Boxer's play on Xel'Naga Caverns and Metalopolis (he had more losses on metalopolis and his timing attack was one minute late but it's good to compare). Also, someone asked for a one rax play. Boxer does the same build on Shakuras Plateau but with one rax (he did one rax on Crevasse but he made a fast factory there). I would like your opinion on that... I believe that with this style, you can have better waves and replenish better your army in time. I agree that mutalisks could be a problem but as you can see, the first two reactor-barracks are always landed to make a wall to the natural, thus you need less turrets at your main and you're mostly protected at your expansion from the marines and the bunker/s. In late game marauder play can be problematic though, if the zerg player transition to ultras. All the above go for the "old school" marine-tank-medivac timing push. Obviously the metagame changed since then but they are still applicable. 2) Regarding the Korean transition, I have seen Nada but especially Bomber (I believe you saw his match vs Idra at MLG Raleigh but he does this at GSL), to add reactors and pump out marines like crazy. Especially Bomber who likes to add two additional Tech Labs instead of one, in order to get combat shield faster and also to produce two marauders simultaneously for the second wave so he can absorb damage from banelings. Then he always adds reactors. Obviously this is adding reactors later on, compared with my first comment on Boxer's BO, since with that kind of pressure, the zerg can't produce easily mutalisks because he's defending his base from your pressure. Thanks. | ||
|
Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On August 04 2011 07:05 The.Doctor wrote: Tanks tank better than marauders. Save gas for higher tank count and build more marines. i saw bomber vs DRG earlier today in MLG and he did use Marauder in his composition and he did won the game any thought about it ? i kinda prefer marauder first instead of go straight to tank since marauder have better mobility | ||
|
The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
| ||
|
LeoA
Canada108 Posts
| ||
|
Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
It more favours maps where you can wall off your natural and prevent access to your main i.e. Nerazim Crypt, Abyssal Caverns, Backwater Gulch and to a lesser extent the huge GSL maps like Terminus, Tal'darim Altar and Crevasse.because of their rush distance. Open 2 rax. Expand with a bunker or two safely guarding your natural and make marines. Make 2 extra barracks and a single refinery, move 3 scvs to the refinery. When the expansion goes down, continue to pump marines and research Stimpack at 100 gas. When Stimpack is near completion, push out. The only real thing that can hold this timing push is:
I am not exactly sure why it's a good timing but I had success with it. I think it's something to do with hitting at a time where lair tech's benefits (i.e. speedbanes, high muta numbers, infestors etc) haven't quite kicked in yet. It's meant to hit before mutas can come out and wreck your mineral line, that's for sure. | ||
|
TerranMeApart
United States27 Posts
| ||
|
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I figured I would share this with this thread, I made it after I added a lot of elements of this guide to my play. I am a visual person so this kind of thing helps me even if I don't look at it during a match. ![[image loading]](http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1654/2raxdocchart.png) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/2raxdocchart.png/ Some of the items are not what this guide says to do and were instead my own style but those are very rare bits. Also, thanks "TheDoctor," once I practiced and understood the transitions you outlined in this thread, as well as learned how to abuse the small things like the gas timing of the Zerg and knowing what kind of transition was best vs what, my win rate in TvZ on ladder (both KR and NA) went from 47% to just a bit over 60%. If playing a 25 minute TvZ didn't make me unable to play for the rest of the day if he made any banelings (boxing things fast hurts yo) I would be building upon these concepts for a long time. | ||
|
jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
On September 10 2011 16:05 vaderseven wrote: I have switched to Protoss for reasons of my wrist hating this matchup (TvZ) and tendonitis is something that scares me so Im taking it serious. I figured I would share this with this thread, I made it after I added a lot of elements of this guide to my play. I am a visual person so this kind of thing helps me even if I don't look at it during a match. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/2raxdocchart.png/ Some of the items are not what this guide says to do and were instead my own style but those are very rare bits. Also, thanks "TheDoctor," once I practiced and understood the transitions you outlined in this thread, as well as learned how to abuse the small things like the gas timing of the Zerg and knowing what kind of transition was best vs what, my win rate in TvZ on ladder (both KR and NA) went from 47% to just a bit over 60%. If playing a 25 minute TvZ didn't make me unable to play for the rest of the day if he made any banelings (boxing things fast hurts yo) I would be building upon these concepts for a long time. Surprised no one replies this post. Vaderseven made a wonderful flowchart for everyone! Great thx! | ||
|
Avan
Brazil121 Posts
| ||
|
Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
| ||
|
gloryofgreece
United States29 Posts
| ||
|
zenith8
55 Posts
| ||
|
awakenx
United States341 Posts
EDIT: any new replays with the new patch? | ||
| ||
