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First off I would like to say hello to everybody. I would also like to say that I really wanted the name of this post to be something like "Using psychoanalysis to determine the style of play and build your opponent will choose." but that was exceeding the 50 character limit, which is why I went with the title there is now.
Secondly I would like to say that I said [L/G] in the front of the topic name because I am a silver league player, that this topic is more directed towards players in the lower tiers such as myself. It's not necessarily a "guide" of sorts, but it's not a question thread or a "what am I doing wrong" or discussion thread, so I chose those two together to try and accurately represent what I had planned for this thread. This might belong in the general portion of these forums, but seeing as how it is intended to help people, I thought it would be appropriate to place it here instead.
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This is intended to be at least somewhat helpful to the players between Bronze and Gold league, for I don't have any personal experience when it comes to Diamond and higher. All information that I will write down here has been collected largely by myself, with help from my brother, during the course of our plays of the game from the first days of the beta up until present day. I will post replays as they become available, and as I don't label most of my games after playing them, I have to dig through months and months of replays, so I am just going to write the bulk of this now, then edit in replays when I find myself with more time to be able to search through my files.
Part One - Tags and Classifications
In this early segment I am just going to go over what I encounter on a frequent basis and what titles I usually attach to such people/events/scenarios. Nobody will be specifically called out.
-----Silent space reserved for replay)
---------Silent refers to the people that simply don't say anything throughout the game.
---------Over many many months of playing StarCraft II, my brother and I have ran into numerous players like this. These types of people are generally easy to handle in any game map or setting on the ladder because 9/10 times the player who doesn't say anything has just come into this game while riding a losing streak, and so they are frustrated and don't feel like talking, even if it's just simple good mannered introduction.
---------Fighting these players will almost always result in a win due to the fact that they are angry or frustrated over certain losses, or multiple losses in a row and thus going into games upset throws their game off, forcing them to make mistakes easily exploited by you, regardless of what league you are in.
---------Their all-ins will seem rather easy to defend, and their harassment will feel rather weak in comparison to your defense.
---------Probability of facing this type of player: Around 12-13%.
-----Self-Assuredspace reserved for replay)
---------Self-Assured refers to players who only say "GL" and "LOL" throughout the entirety of the game.
---------When the game starts they will simply say "gl". This, at least in the lower tiered leagues such as gold/silver/bronze, will indicate that your opponent will try a type of play people commonly refer to as "cheese".
---------They hold themselves in high regard, because they look at their ladder wins and see high numbers such as 300-700 games won, when in actuality it makes themselves look as if they simply couldn't cut it at the higher leagues, and was subsequently demoted back down to a lower league. It is unwise however to purposefully tank games to stay in lower leagues for easy wins, as it can lead to getting your account permanently banned by Blizzard.
---------Probability of facing this type of player: Around 34-36%.
-----Criersspace reserved for replay)
---------These types of people generally are the first ones to say something other than the over-all good mannered "Hi, good luck have fun" that most games start with. They spend alot of the early game telling you about how happy they are they were finally paired up against race X instead of race Y constantly.
---------The criers generally spend too much time in the early game typing out their story of reprieve to you, and their macro will slip, giving you a chance to exploit the situation by either expanding, or doing early pressure. One missed or delayed worker or unit when it was not necessary can potentially have lethal consequences.
---------A player such as this will 80% of the time will dedicate alot of time and resources to harassment units such as the Banshee or Hellion. If you know what units or structures to make to handle them, then it will put you in a fairly decent lead. Of course, assuming that this train of thinking will work the same on someone who is high diamond or up as it would on somebody gold or lower is wrong as the better players have encountered that many times before and if their harassment gets shut down, they can move on, instead of getting into the "uh, uh, uh what." zone in a play that was banking alot on harass.
---------Probability of facing this type of player: Around 9-13% depending on time of day.
-----Standardspace reserved for replay)
---------These types of players are the ones that you run into most of the time while laddering. They will go into the game with a specific play in mind against whatever race you play. They will either execute it well or very poorly and it will cost them the game.
---------They also will 9 out of 10 times show good manners and say the standard "gl hf" once the game itself begins, but keep chatter to as minimal as possible as they just want to focus on playing and winning or playing and improving.
---------Probability of facing this type of player: 70-80%. In my opinion these are where the fun games happen.
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With all that said, I would like to explain a little more as to why I chose to write this. I chose to write this because when I first got into silver, I still had a really hard time figuring out what to look for when I was scouting my opponents base, but one thing that was certain was that players who felt as if their harassment and cheddar play would out right win them the game generally said nothing, or acted sure of themselves and arrogant.
Over the months when my over-all assumptions got to about 85-89% probability of being accurate, I started figuring out how to deal with people such as this. Players, I found who simply said "GL" or acted arrogant would, if their initial cheese play was denied, and they didn't simply leave the game right afterward, they would try everything from going proxy gateway zealot rushes to mass Voidray, to mass Dark Templar. Now in my head, after the 10 minute mark cheese stops becoming cheese, but all the builds those particular players would fall back on were designed for early game pressure or to outright win the game fast, instead of transitioning into say 3gate robo or 4gate expand so on and so forth. All races are intended in this paragraph but I used protoss as an example as it's easier for protoss to go from say Voidray harass to dark templar all-ins than it is say terrans to go cloaked banshee into hellion drops. Yes you can do it, but in my opinion if they put up defenses for your cloaked banshees, what's the point of risking a Medvac with 200 minerals worth in its cargo space?
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I guess seeing as how I did put [G] in the title I should at least add some tips or tricks I have found that help me out personally. The diamond and up players and professionals will most likely find no use out of this topic, and it's not really stuff you can do in-game to help, but stuff I, myself do outside of game that helps me when I am playing.
Part Two - Tips and Tricks
-----Boxing:
---------Just like boxing units while in-game, I practice boxing outside of the game as well. Whenever I am reading an article on teamliquid or idling at my desktop while thinking what to do, I am constantly boxing either the icons on my desktop, boxing a square around an image on my desktop background, or paragraphs I am reading.
---------I find that doing this, at least for me personally, makes it easier once I am in-game to box my units and split them, or just select them all or what have you. Doing it outside of StarCraft II makes it generally, once again at least for me, feel like boxing stuff in the game is more natural and gives myself a more fluid wrist movement and click timings.
-----R.E.M.Rapid Eye Movement)
---------I do this while outside of the game as well, such as right now. I will every now and then look at something, and shoot my eyes in different directions on the screen, like say reading this, and try to remember as many words or letters as I can as my eye speeds past everything.
---------I do this to try and increase my eye quickness, as well as my mental sharpness to help me "pick up" things I normally wouldn't. Also it helps me personally by keeping me from making my eyes "lazy" and only looking at what I currently have my mouse over, giving me constant vision of everything that is going on on my screen and minimap during the game itself.
-----Finger Macro:
---------I am a smoker, so I always have a lighter on me. As such to try and keep my fingers sharp as well as my mind, I will either spam grind the flint without hitting the gas on the lighter, or twirl it between my fingers as fast as I can.
---------I find that this helps me when I am playing StarCraft II, in situations where I need to push my macro that extra mile because my fingers will already be used to moving around quite a bit. Makes moving my fingers and hands from say Hotkey+1, to Hotkey+7 alot easier and smoother in my opinion.
---------If you don't smoke then don't ever start it's a bad habit, and from what I hear there is actually cyanide in cigarettes. If you don't know what that is, that's the stuff spies use to kill themselves in a hurry.
-----Typing:
---------One of the skills I think is invaluable to playing a game such as StarCraft II. I have really good typing skills. Well okay decent typing skills I guess, I can type out a full sentence, be watching the TV or talking to somebody while looking at them without ever looking at the keyboard or monitor and not miss a beat when I am typing something and know exactly when I have made an error and know how many spaces to go back and fix it.
---------I feel that the ability to do that is a huge asset to playing a RTS like StarCraft II because it completely erases the need to look at your keyboard to hit the key you need to, allowing you to keep your eyes in the game or on your mini map. My money is always staying fairly low, well for as low as it can be given my skill level, and my brother is in a higher league than I am, and his money pools very high because he is constantly having to look down at his keyboard to hit his shortcuts and macro/hotkeys.
-----Good Hy-gene:
---------Yes yes I know, should be common practice for everybody, but some people don't and I feel that it can really effect how your games play out. If you smell good, you'll feel pleased and not focus on yourself. If you stink, you'll smell yourself the whole time you are playing, and that is distracting.
---------Also, keep your fingernails trimmed. I don't know how many of my games I wasn't 100% in because I had broke a finger nail on my macro hand that had gotten too long and broke all the way down to the painful quick.
---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think.
-----Anger:
---------This one is rather simple. Just simply don't play when you are angry, or are getting angry over loss after loss. Anger is a primal emotion, and as such practical logic and sensible thinking generally tends to go out of the window when you are angry, and will cause you to make mistakes while playing, resulting in major setbacks or even more losses.
---------If you find yourself getting angry, just walk away for say 10-15 minutes. Grab a soda or a water, a bite to eat, use the restroom or something and come back after you've been cooled down, and chances are you'll win that very next game.
---------Also, calling people names is a good way to get your account banned.
-----Winning:
---------Okay this might come off as an odd one to most people, but I suggest taking a break when you are on a winning streak. When you go on say a 3-4-5 game winning streak, you'll eventually find yourself in a situation where you have gotten comfortable and you'll let your guard down or will slack off somewhere else and your opponent will make you suffer for it.
---------Take like a 5-10 minute break after a good winning streak, then come back to it and play again so that you don't start slacking off accidentally and getting too comfortable.
-----Audio:
---------I suggest using in-game audio if you are still fairly new to the game. You watch the professionals do their streams and alot of them will play music while they ladder, but they already have something in higher supply than you do: Attention to detail.
---------Until looking at the mini map has become almost second nature to you, I would suggest using the in-game audio for a heads-up of what is happening. Once you have that in the bag however you can go back to your music if you want.
---------Audio is also really good for detecting when somebody is dropping a proxy in your base, or a nydus worm in your base.
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Okay well that is all I can think of right now for people that are more around me. I know it's not perfect and there are things higher level players can show you all on an individual basis that will work alot better, but if you feel you have a hard time spotting what structures mean what when you scout your opponent, then this might give you a general idea if you need to play defensively or if you can play aggressively early game.
I am very interested in any feedback you guys might have, and I will upload replays to help validate what I am talking about as I get the chance to dig through my replay folder. Sorry this is so long and thank you for taking the time reading this, even if you don't much care for what I had to say.
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Quite interesting. It seems like self-assured and standard are somewhat similar in their conversation. I'm a crier!
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What I can tell from personal experience is that completely silent players can also be really good. They might be more focused on tournaments and such so they don't really even bother saying anything on ladder, since they're just massing games.
Otherwise it's an interesting guide, but I'd say it's pretty dangerous to assume anything just based on chat.
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this is retarted. and leaving it up could misslead noobs into basing their gameplay off chat.
User was temp banned for this post.
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No offense, but your use of the term psychoanalysis is completely wrong.
As for the rest of the post, it's completely ridiculous. Your illusory correlations are based only on anecdotal evidence.
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+ Show Spoiler +When the game starts they will simply say "gl". This, at least in the lower tiered leagues such as gold/silver/bronze, will indicate that your opponent will try a type of play people commonly refer to as "cheese"
gl = cheese?
I find that the people that dont reply to a glhf are going to cheese.
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On June 30 2011 14:22 drryworrx wrote:
-----Good Hy-gene:
---------Yes yes I know, should be common practice for everybody, but some people don't and I feel that it can really effect how your games play out. If you smell good, you'll feel pleased and not focus on yourself. If you stink, you'll smell yourself the whole time you are playing, and that is distracting.
---------Also, keep your fingernails trimmed. I don't know how many of my games I wasn't 100% in because I had broke a finger nail on my macro hand that had gotten too long and broke all the way down to the painful quick.
---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think.
Haha, what? This seems a little trollish to me. How much earwax would you need to have in your ear canal for that to happen?
In all seriousness, though, this post seems more like someone's personal experience with the ladder, and while it may be extensive, it surely won't be universal. Some people are silent and play standard, some people are good mannered but still cheese, etc. etc.
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On June 30 2011 14:59 Za7oX wrote:+ Show Spoiler +When the game starts they will simply say "gl". This, at least in the lower tiered leagues such as gold/silver/bronze, will indicate that your opponent will try a type of play people commonly refer to as "cheese" gl = cheese? I find that the people that don't reply to a glhf are going to cheese.
Yeah gl= glhf When people cheese, they usually talk ALOT to distract their opponents. They will throw something random at you, and try to get you to talk.
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I'm sorry but this is wrong. There is no way for you to be able to predict builds without knowing information about the players style before hand and trying to follow potential patterns based on what he types at the beginning is stupid.
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This reminds me of the thread where a guy thought that you could tell the race of your opponent by seeing how long it takes for them to say glhf. Except, holy shit, you have so many words.
I seriously doubt you can make such assumptions without real and reliable evidence.
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The percentages don't even make sense! Even the lowest range for each adds up to more than 100% and of course they are all biased and not supported by an actual statistic.
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On June 30 2011 15:07 BlackPanther wrote:
I'm sorry but this is wrong. There is no way for you to be able to predict builds without knowing information about the players style before hand and trying to follow potential patterns based on what he types at the beginning is stupid.
But it is true, have you ever played against someone who says "Fucking hate "XvX"? And then follow suite to completely demolish them?
I think though that there is 1 more type of person you missed.
The bad mannered 
These are the people who join games and continuesly do BM things at the start... Generally they do cheesy things or at least all-ins.
Examples would be like saying someone is bad, predicting their builds, telling them what you do etc etc.
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Not to bash you OP, but what you're posing as psychoanalysis is nothing of the sort and is very misleading. To give an analogy your analysis has about as much weight as saying that someone born in january will be more likely to cheese you and someone in may will be playing macro
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On June 30 2011 14:57 MageWarden wrote:
this is retarted. and leaving it up could misslead noobs into basing their gameplay off chat.
You should try to be confident in what you are doing rather than hope to guess what your opponent is doing based on some kind of chat metagame.
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Well like I said they're not always going to end up that way, and I am currently mid-ranged silver and that was just what it comes off to me as. I am aware people that don't talk aren't always going to try and go for that quick, satisfying kill.
My intention for this topic was to just to get people to be prepared for things in the way that works for me, not to make a build specifically designed around chat. Just to keep an extra, watchful eye open when something happens.
And as far as my "Psychoanalysis" header goes, I did google it, but I only went with one part of the definition, so I'm right AND wrong in using it. For those of you whom feel dumber for having read it, I apologize.
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I read this post completely skeptical about how you can analyze a player through simple things they say and such, being a psych major. I am unconvinced this hold any merit what so ever. Humans consistently look for patterns or sequences in everything we do, we just cant help it we notice things that stand out, or we recall things we have fresh in our mind and try to relate it to other parts of life. This is were "Cold Reading" comes into play. For you who don't know, cold reading is what TV fortune tellers use to make you think they can see the future or read your mind. They have a list of common statistics or statements that most people will hold true in what ever gender or age group they reside in. I figured this post would be based more on determining what kind of person someone is by there play style. This is very possible. However trying to judge what your opponent will do to you based on their vernacular use is extremely unsubstantial and very farfetched. I give you A for effort but move on to something up and keep up the posting on TL we need this community to grow!
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I am a silent player, I won often and high masters. I do not say anything because I focus and zone in. I always GG before I leave and don't bm. I disagree with your statement on me.
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Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy.
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While I applaud your efforts at "categorizing" players by their responses, I have to say that I'm higly skeptical of your published results. Different people react/play differently to different things, and trying to judge what another person will or will not do just by wheather or not they type "glhf" is generally a bad idea. Personally I prefer to judge their ingame actions by scouting.
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On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy.
My thoughts exactly.
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I understand that this is a gaming forum and not a scientific journal, but you may want to provide more data if you want to have the slightest credibility behind your idea.
As of now, it's just purely based on informal observations from yourself, and lacks any type of evidence.
You're also mixing up a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with the matter (in the "self assured" paragraph, you suddenly mention the fact that getting into lower leagues on purpose can lead to being banned... what does that have to do with your subject ?).
It might be interesting to do a study on the potential link between in game behavior and psychological profiles, but that is not what you are doing right now.
Edit : Oh, and I clearly doubt that it could really help people beyond the informative interest of the study. Because if you rely on such data instead of in game informations (scouting and stuff), you're just metagaming to an extreme that will probably make you a worse player.
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Cool idea but it seems like this only applies to bronze players
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lol, this reminds me of when my friends were in silver and they claimed that anytime an opponent told them 'glhf', they were guaranteed to be cheesing
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When the game starts they will simply say "gl". This, at least in the lower tiered leagues such as gold/silver/bronze, will indicate that your opponent will try a type of play people commonly refer to as "cheese"
Being in the silver league, people that cheese me never say "gl". As a matter a fact, 90% of the time they don't answer at all. I've started to become highly suspicious of people that don't answer to "gl hf"...
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I like this thread.
I'm the silent type! However, I'm a Zerg player. I think you need to change a lot of your definitions if the player is Zerg. I think most Zerg players are the silent type though - pissed off that 90% of their games are bullshit pulled on you one way or another. Mass voidrays (Im in High Diamond, no im not bronze), mass chargelot, cannon rushes, mass hellion. I feel every game is either me winning, or cheese.
I win most of my games, my record is very positive, and I'm not pissed off about a losing streak, although I'm probably just pissed off about losing some stupid game. It's not as bad losing 3 games in a row as it is to some stupid crap that shouldn't work but but but. I say "u2" but that's it.
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On June 30 2011 15:19 Kornholi0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 15:07 BlackPanther wrote:
I'm sorry but this is wrong. There is no way for you to be able to predict builds without knowing information about the players style before hand and trying to follow potential patterns based on what he types at the beginning is stupid. But it is true, have you ever played against someone who says "Fucking hate "XvX"? And then follow suite to completely demolish them? I think though that there is 1 more type of person you missed. The bad mannered These are the people who join games and continuesly do BM things at the start... Generally they do cheesy things or at least all-ins. Examples would be like saying someone is bad, predicting their builds, telling them what you do etc etc.
No, its wrong. Someone telling me they hate the current matchup they are playing can have a variety of implications which makes any sort of analysis, given the lack of information I would have about the opposing player, useless.
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sorry but what?
i switch between saying gg hf, gl hf, hf, u2, nothing, good luck little zerg, to anything i feel like.
there is no evidence that what players say at the start of the game is related to how they play, so i think this thread should be closed.
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This has nothing to do with psychoanalysis. OP is trying to use something extremely irrelevant (how people write in chat during games) to predict players behavior, which is never going to work. I generally only write GL at the start of a game and nothing else, am I a self-assured player or a silent player? Self-assured players apparently cheese, which I never do, so I guess I'm silent? That somehow means I'm on a losing streak and will be easy to beat, which isn't true at all since I'm high platinum and I win the majority of my games.
No basis for anything in this topic, just random drivel.
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don't use words like psychoanalysis if you can't spell them correctly. it makes everything else you say that much harder to believe.
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Oh boy, you had me at Silent
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OP, you give a lot of reasons to "take a break" from playing: Everytime I get angry I'm supposed to stop. Everytime I go on a win-streak I'm supposed to stop. You need to shrug off your feelings and play the game. You need to quit spending time on this psychoanalysis BS and play the game.
This explains why you're in silver. Analyzing chat behavior is doing nothing for your improvement.
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ROFL what kind of an OP is this?? what is this a guide to? i'm so damn confused
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Funny how your minimum values add up to 125%.. I bet you made up these statistics.
On June 30 2011 14:57 MageWarden wrote:
this is retarted. and leaving it up could misslead noobs into basing their gameplay off chat.
I love how you spell "retarded" wrong.
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I am sorry but this is absolutely rediculous. It must be a troll.
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Can't.Stop.Laughing.
I thought dude who was concerned that Idra was a hacker was a retard but this one is on another level. Sorry for my language.
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Yay! I'm a standard player! I'm the one who's playing with is enjoyable! 
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re-reading it this just has to be a troll >.>
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There's a reason why modern scientists don't use Psychoanalysis anymore: It's ineffective.
Please close this
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When I saw the thread I was getting excited. Maybe collossi are the phallus, and corruptors have penis envy. That's what makes zerg so vaginal.
But seriously I'm not sure what's up with this thread. Like others have said, probably troll . . .
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Edit: This isn't a troll thread, I think. Just not the most productive one.
You forgot the two common cases:
People who ask you what league you are in -- 87.2% chance they rush you, especially mass marines or proxy gates. The best people to play against.
People who cuss you out or bm from the start -- 54.0% chance they rush you, 100.0% chance they do a strategy that people find annoying (all-in, rush to cloaked unit x, turtle and deathball up).
All percentages made up on the spot. They may or may not be anywhere near the actual odds of occurence.
Also, I added up your probabilities of meeting each type. And came up with a range from 125% to 142%. Seems a little on the high side...
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Scouting>Pyschoanalysis. Seeing what's actually happening > guessing due to how they poise themselves at the start of games. Also don't play when angry? If Artosis and Idra did that they would never play any games.
Edit: do you have any data to support your findings. 9-13% is very specific.
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I did have a tendancy to insult Zerg players by always saying: "Ah great another six-pool."
And then just quietly leave them to rage or careful explain that they could actually play the game.
Didn't cheese the opponent afterwards but definitely got them dialoguing about there day on the ladder. Actually I found the ones that calmly responded tended to not attack until after my first push and the raging ppl would just let their macro go down the plug hole.
So some of the ideas you've assumed have some basis, but even with a probability its more effective to just scout the opponent and look for tells in the build order; much better habit in my opinion.
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On June 30 2011 23:19 k!llua wrote:
don't use words like psychoanalysis if you can't spell them correctly. it makes everything else you say that much harder to believe.
This.
Having missed the spelling mistake however, I came in this thread expecting someone who actually had some education on the subject, perhaps a psychology student at uni. And how does the thread go from analysing enemy behaviour into personal hygiene advice??
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On July 01 2011 00:43 aimless wrote:
Edit: This isn't a troll thread, I think. Just not the most productive one.
You forgot the two common cases:
People who ask you what league you are in -- 87.2% chance they rush you, especially mass marines or proxy gates. The best people to play against.
People who cuss you out or bm from the start -- 54.0% chance they rush you, 100.0% chance they do a strategy that people find annoying (all-in, rush to cloaked unit x, turtle and deathball up).
All percentages made up on the spot. They may or may not be anywhere near the actual odds of occurence.
Also, I added up your probabilities of meeting each type. And came up with a range from 125% to 142%. Seems a little on the high side...
ofcourse not, the possibility of an opponent doing a strategy in a game is about 132.3% to 140.9% so it only means there must be some inaccuracies in the OP, the question remains where??
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Here's a tip: if your opponent talks a lot/attempts to initiate conversation in the first few moments of a game, odds are cheese is happening
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Here's a tip, if they don't say gl hf back, scout
if they do say glhf, scout
if they bm you scout,
if they leave the game, you dont need to scout
if they ask what gl hf means, you dont need to scout.
glhf with your games :D
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Most useless thread ever. Probably troll.
We are trying too improve at this game. We don't need bullshit for that.
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This thread is bullsh!t
Close plz
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The op clearly has the Oedipus complex
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Two things,
Firstly, the OP breaks rule number 1 from the Strategy Forum Guidelines:
"Everything you say must be supported by evidence"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479
The OP has none, what remains is unsupported speculation - and is hence utterly worthless and has no place here.
Secondly:
On June 30 2011 15:34 drryworrx wrote:
And as far as my "Psychoanalysis" header goes, I did google it, but I only went with one part of the definition, so I'm right AND wrong in using it. For those of you whom feel dumber for having read it, I apologize.
The activity you are undertaking is not Psychoanalysis (it isn't even psychology); simply because you can google a term and pluck out a definition does guarrantee it's credibility. You ignorance astounds me.
The activity you are undertaking is called 'trolling'. If you do not know what this means I suggest you google it (do you see my irony?).
This thread is yet another example of the pointless rubbish that has reduced the strategy forum to what it is now.
I surely hope that the next purge is of truely Stalinist proportions.
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I feel like I've been trolled by reading this thread...
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this thread makes me sad.. as one styddying to become a psychiatrist at the moment its sad that things like this is spread on the internet, giving psychology a bad name.
please ignore this thread, in most universities today we have a scientific and professional relation to matters like personality and this thread is far from that
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I'm "silent", but it's not because I'm frustrated or have been on a losing streak, it's simply because I don't want my opponent to be lucky, and I couldn't care less whether or not they enjoy the game.
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I think this is something that is fun to have in the back of your mind, but you should absolutely not base your play off it, because it's completely case-by-case
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I liked reading the replies more than I did the OP itself.
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i am silent, since i removed all the uneccessary keys from my keyboard, so i have to use another keyboard to chat (which will cost too much time at game start) :-)
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On June 30 2011 16:13 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy. My thoughts exactly.
+1...
User was warned for this post
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your Country52797 Posts
Apparenty I'm a crier for saying "Hi. How are you?" at the start of each game.
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your Country52797 Posts
On July 01 2011 01:54 sOm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 16:13 Ruscour wrote:On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy. My thoughts exactly. +1...
+2
User was warned for this post
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i thought it was an interesting read, and i think some of you guys are slating it alittle hard, if you read it as a matter of opinion then thats far game, if you read it as pure fact then of course its going to sound crazy.
Nice read, thanks for fending off bordem whilst i was at work!
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fair game**
User was warned for this post
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I dont think it belongs in "Strategy Section". Second it isn't true. Half of the time i'll just "glgl" like a bot, or "glhf" if i feel to... Seriously, bad thread.
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Honestly people in lowers leagues think about this game more than I do, and I'm practically in masters.
Here's my tip. Stop thinking so god damn much about the game, and keep your money low.
Low money=winning.
Spending even 5 seconds thinking about your opponents "personality"=/=winning.
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Well the OP is completly wrong, I always say nothing during games( even gg) and I can cheese or play standard.
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This is not psychoanalysis and I'm not sure it is very helpful either.
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--I am a smoker, so I always have a lighter on me. As such to try and keep my fingers sharp as well as my mind, I will either spam grind the flint without hitting the gas on the lighter, or twirl it between my fingers as fast as I can.
---------I find that this helps me when I am playing StarCraft II, in situations where I need to push my macro that extra mile because my fingers will already be used to moving around quite a bit. Makes moving my fingers and hands from say Hotkey+1, to Hotkey+7 alot easier and smoother in my opinion
TL has officially jumped the shark
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On July 01 2011 02:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Honestly people in lowers leagues think about this game more than I do
agreed, i wonder where these threads come from. i anxiously await the return of the "ideal worker" split threads, should be any minute now.
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On June 30 2011 14:59 o29 wrote:
No offense, but your use of the term psychoanalysis is completely wrong.
As for the rest of the post, it's completely ridiculous. Your illusory correlations are based only on anecdotal evidence.
This. If you don't know what psychoanalysis is, don't use the word.
And everything is just wrong with those things.
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On July 01 2011 01:55 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 01:54 sOm wrote:On June 30 2011 16:13 Ruscour wrote:On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy. My thoughts exactly. +1... +2
+3
This tread needs to be closed.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Like a lot of people I think this is bad in it's execution but good in the idea. For something like this to work you would need to mass ladder, play the exact same way in every game, and then record the opponent's response. And repeat for a variety of situations. But hey, it was a good read
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I like what you were trying to explain in this thread, and you almost got the point across, but i am just not sure this could be called strategy. I just feel like all of this is just based of players you may have faced on ladder, and then you made up names for them and assigned random percents of playing them. I do agree that it is sometimes possible to "figure out " an opponent by looking at the chat, but i do not think that a guide for this can be made, even in just lower leagues.
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I normally just kill the dude while hes pulling a freud on me.
I don't put much stock in the OP at all. If you were in silver and got the analysis coreect 89% of the time you'd just kill him or deflect the cheese you know is coming.
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On June 30 2011 23:46 iChau wrote:Funny how your minimum values add up to 125%.. I bet you made up these statistics. Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 14:57 MageWarden wrote:
this is retarted. and leaving it up could misslead noobs into basing their gameplay off chat. I love how you spell "retarded" wrong.
get off my dick, i wrote that at 2 AM. and this is the internet
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On June 30 2011 16:13 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy. My thoughts exactly.
It wasn't invented by Freud, he just took most of the credit for it.
edit: What made Freud so popular was his theory of personality, not his version of psychotherapy, because quite frankly, it wasn't psychotherapy at all. It was all a series of case studies. He gave cocaine to one of his clients and was delighted to see he cheered up (the cheering up reached the level of mania, of course).
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Please, OP, this is poorly written. Your intentions are good, yet as a bronze league player, I find that chat doesn't really matter at all in my games. The players either 'glhf' or not. Besides, I use scouting to figure out what they're up to, not mind games.
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On July 01 2011 02:35 Sheikhspeare wrote:
This is not psychoanalysis and I'm not sure it is very helpful either.
it's more akin to those personality types...forget who made the big 5
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On July 01 2011 03:12 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 02:35 Sheikhspeare wrote:
This is not psychoanalysis and I'm not sure it is very helpful either. it's more akin to those personality types...forget who made the big 5
Big 5 is just a watered down version of Eysenck's trait theory.There isn't even any theory behind it, it's just the result of factor analysis.
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I stay silent even on win streaks
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United States12607 Posts
I really can't believe you guys are taking this so seriously. Doesn't anyone else appreciate the whimsy here? Sheeeeeeesh.
Yes, like there is some risk that players who read this thread will stop scouting come ON guys.
OP, I enjoyed reading. More entertaining than 90% of purported guides posted in SC2 Strategy.
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On July 01 2011 03:14 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 03:12 Roe wrote:On July 01 2011 02:35 Sheikhspeare wrote:
This is not psychoanalysis and I'm not sure it is very helpful either. it's more akin to those personality types...forget who made the big 5 Big 5 is just a watered down version of Eysenck's trait theory.There isn't even any theory behind it, it's just the result of factor analysis.
i'd say it's better. but i'm drunk. at 2pm...
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Those percentages add up to waaaay more than 100% ... ?
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not really in the mood for a silver league player giving insignificant statistics that they came up with by total guesswork
User was temp banned for this post.
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while i agree with most that the response type isn't really a way to base your play or assume an opponents play on, some of the ideas have some potential, though mostly attention to detail and mechanical ideas. the REM idea isn't a horrible one, and neither is the finger micro which can be performed outside of the game in many different ways, considering all you are attempting to do with that is increase your finger speed and dexterity.
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I'd like to add another explanation to the silent part. He could also be silent because he has his hands full with executing his build. I know I have that sometimes when I'm not sober ;P
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One might generously interpret the percentages to mean that there might be some overlap between groups; perhaps some "standard" people are also "self-assured"?
OP definitely draws some overly certain conclusions, but it does open an interesting question. What can you guess about a person (and their build) from their chat?
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On July 01 2011 16:44 ChristianS wrote:
One might generously interpret the percentages to mean that there might be some overlap between groups; perhaps some "standard" people are also "self-assured"?
OP definitely draws some overly certain conclusions, but it does open an interesting question. What can you guess about a person (and their build) from their chat?
i find that the more talkative a person is, the more likely they are to cheese you, attempting to use the chat as a distraction.
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I feel like this is a troll. One thing I have noticed though, is when an opponent doesn't reply to my gl hf, there's a good chance he's cheesing. Particularly with random players that get zerg and 6 pool. This doesn't apply all the time though, some people just want all the luck and fun for themselves lol
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On June 30 2011 14:22 drryworrx wrote:
...
---------Probability of facing this type of player: Around 12-13%.
...
---------Probability of facing this type of player: Around 9-13% depending on time of day.
...
You're being 100% serious, aren't you?
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Hello,
Haters gonna hate. I do this in real life all the time and to everyone who doesn't do it, it just seems like guesswork. Until you tell the person something about themselves that they have not told you. Thanks for the interesting pseudo-results.
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On June 30 2011 14:41 Sotamursu wrote:
What I can tell from personal experience is that completely silent players can also be really good. They might be more focused on tournaments and such so they don't really even bother saying anything on ladder, since they're just massing games.
Otherwise it's an interesting guide, but I'd say it's pretty dangerous to assume anything just based on chat.
Yeah this is more my experience too. If I meet a silence player it's usually someone that's really serious and is in some sort of "shell" and does only focus on the game and nothing else. Usually really strongs. Coming from my experience around high master.
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or you could just learn how to play the game
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On July 01 2011 03:14 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 03:12 Roe wrote:On July 01 2011 02:35 Sheikhspeare wrote:
This is not psychoanalysis and I'm not sure it is very helpful either. it's more akin to those personality types...forget who made the big 5 Big 5 is just a watered down version of Eysenck's trait theory.There isn't even any theory behind it, it's just the result of factor analysis.
Sorry, I read that as
"There isn't even any theory behind it, just the weight of empirical evidence".
You realise Eysenck's trait theory also used factor analysis, right?
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On June 30 2011 15:34 drryworrx wrote:
Well like I said they're not always going to end up that way, and I am currently mid-ranged silver and that was just what it comes off to me as. I am aware people that don't talk aren't always going to try and go for that quick, satisfying kill.
My intention for this topic was to just to get people to be prepared for things in the way that works for me, not to make a build specifically designed around chat. Just to keep an extra, watchful eye open when something happens.
And as far as my "Psychoanalysis" header goes, I did google it, but I only went with one part of the definition, so I'm right AND wrong in using it. For those of you whom feel dumber for having read it, I apologize.
I would advise this to everyone on TL.net:
Do not use words you don't know. If you have to google a word in order to use and understand it then it is assumable that you are not familiar with this word. This article is not about psychoanalysis. Use a header like, "Communication in 1vs1 bronze to gold" or something more specific. Your post will be taken more serious if you know what you are speaking about. Do not use foreign words or words sounding sophisticated in order to make things look more interesting.
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Pretty funny, assuming this is a joke, if not, then it's pretty terrible lol.
I'm a mix of all four by the looks of it lol.
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I love how OP makes a distinction between people who say "gl" and people who say "gl hf".
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While I disagree with almost every single assertion you made, I find the read suprising enjoyable.
I will give you five star if this were a blog ;]
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This parallels my own experience, although it's possible to be still more discerning:
glhf vs lghf or glhF: )
Within the percentage of 'standard' players, a precise 'glhf' (15%) generally indicates superior mechanics compared to a sloppy lghf(9-11%). Much can also be gleaned from the presence of a trailing smiley:
* If the glhf: ) is slow (28%), he's using one hand to hit shift+: and he's not very quick at it, which means he's not very experienced at adding units to control groups and will generally be worse at positional play. Expand aggressively, being sure to keep vision of the centre of the map.
* If the F is capitalised (45%), he's liable to hitting modifier keys too early and will almost certainly screw up the contents of his control groups at some point, preventing the casting of spells at critical moments or interfering with his macro. Harass these players to maximise their discomfort.
You might want to add this info to the OP.
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Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Every person is different, judging someones personality is a miniscule part of metagame analysis but often what someone says can be deliberately misleading.
I found myself vulnerable to making poor snap judgments when I was really into online poker. Its easy to start arrogantly thinking of people as predictable and machine like, and a lot of people will take advantage of this by counting on their opponent underestimating them. Even lower level players can be scheming and manipulative, so dont fall into the habit of trying to prejudice the "sheeple".
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On July 01 2011 03:17 JWD wrote:I really can't believe you guys are taking this so seriously. Doesn't anyone else appreciate the whimsy here? Sheeeeeeesh. Yes, like there is some risk that players who read this thread will stop scouting come ON guys. OP, I enjoyed reading. More entertaining than 90% of purported guides posted in SC2 Strategy.
But... but..
It's an OP in the TL strategy forum! I must blindly follow it - how dare you suggest I think for myself?!
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while i'm skeptical of pretty much everything you posted, i'm actually very curious as to how this would pan out if a well thought poll were to be put onto TL.net regarding your own in-game interactions and your following playstyle
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Just to clear the record, this wasn't intended to troll anybody and I apologize if it came off that way.
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On July 02 2011 17:42 drryworrx wrote:
Just to clear the record, this wasn't intended to troll anybody and I apologize if it came off that way.
What was it intended to be? A bad joke? I don't get it. I also don't get your in-game loading time timing push thread. Given these two mind numbing threads (both of which have zero explanation regarding their purposes), it's pretty reasonable to call you a troll.
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for the record, this wasn't intended to take place of scouting. It was just meant that based on my observations over months that just have that certain type of stuff in the back of your mind. I also mentioned that it was really only intended for gold or lower as that's where I've only ever heard it take place.
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There is also the awkward of society, where I once joined a game and said "gl hf," and then the Zerg just told me to "stfu for thinking you have the rights to talk when you play Protoss. Then he kept making an insult every 4 minutes into the game, so I just got pissed and 6 gated him.
I do not know if that fits in crying, as that is not really complaining but more of just being a douchebag. Either way, nice analysis, people in the comments are pointing out small things that you could spend more time on, but overall you have a well thought out picture of the types of players. Obviously it is not 100% accurate as there are always people that are "special" in their own way.
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heh yeah alot of zerg QQ about Terran and Protoss. Personally I don't have a problem with any match up and I main Zerg, so it just boils down to them not being able to handle toss. Ultra/bling/crackling/infestor = win
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On one occasion I was playing a zerg as protoss, he was a "crier" you could say, but he was obviously sandbagging or something because he was much better than me and seemed to my eyes to be very gosu. Anyway, throughout the entire game he had an advantage but kept keeping me barely in the game by not using the maximum force to kill me. This was in order to barrage me with verbal abuse re: my choice of playing protoss. Every surprise backstab with mutas was accompanied by a comment about no skill toss.
Anyway, this is an example of a crier who didn't meet your "psycho-analytic" profile.
And since you use the term psycho analysis in your title, shouldn't you be talking about the
sado-masochistic player type, ie. the people who choose to learn zerg??
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Always say gl hf before you start.
If they don't respond be suspicious of cheese.
60% of the time it works every time.
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Yes everyone, base your play off of your opponents chat. I dont understand how your brain works. This kind of thinking will keep you in silver league forever.
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On June 30 2011 16:02 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this a troll?
Psychoanalysis refers to a type of therapy that was made popular (and invented, if I'm not mistaken) by Freud. If OP described how the manner in which a Toss spread his units reflected upon his subconscious lust for his mother, you'd be more on track.
Also: 12-13% silent, 34-36% self assured, 9-13% criers, 70-80% standard. You've got a minimum of 125% there, buddy.
Rofl, and darn, I wanted to post the lack of mathematical make-sense-ness in the OP.
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On July 02 2011 18:52 iTzAnglory wrote:
There is also the awkward of society, where I once joined a game and said "gl hf," and then the Zerg just told me to "stfu for thinking you have the rights to talk when you play Protoss. Then he kept making an insult every 4 minutes into the game, so I just got pissed and 6 gated him.
I do not know if that fits in crying, as that is not really complaining but more of just being a douchebag. Either way, nice analysis, people in the comments are pointing out small things that you could spend more time on, but overall you have a well thought out picture of the types of players. Obviously it is not 100% accurate as there are always people that are "special" in their own way.
This has more to do with psychology than the entire OP.
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On June 30 2011 14:59 o29 wrote:
No offense, but your use of the term psychoanalysis is completely wrong.
As for the rest of the post, it's completely ridiculous. Your illusory correlations are based only on anecdotal evidence.
i agree with this completely. this just wrong. altho the attempt was interesting enough to get me to read. Your conclusions seem completely off.
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Drrywarrx,
Well, as a quantitative psychologist (a statistician who knows a thing or two about psychology), and know that I have taught several undergraduate courses at a division one university here in the US over statisticis and psychology, here's my two cents.
First, I wish you would give your credentials, and as you did not, I bet at best you've taken a psychology class or two in college, if that, though who knows, maybe you were just sloppy not mentioning your own credentials. Second, as many have pointed out, "psychoanalysis" is improperly used, as it stems from Freudian theories, essentially classifying people as having problems later in life, personality-wise, due to experiences in stages of development (oral,anal,genital, etc.) Now, also keep in mind that classifying people into "cubby-hole" categories is about the only relationship to psychoanalysis you have, that and it's loosely based on your own psychological theories. Third, I'd like to point out that your percentages add up to over 100%. Given, you never mentioned mutual exclusivity, so perhaps overlap does exist, though I am concerned about the numbers. Furthermore, I'd like the numbers to be based upon true, objective counting of your games and communications, not just "willy-nilly" anecdotal experiences, as I fear your theory may be based upon. Forth, nit-picky again, but R.E.M. is indeed rapid eye momvement, but I hope you realize that it refers to a behavioral indicator of when the subject is dreaming, not scanning your field of view quickly while conscious, but I'll forgive you for that, as we can recoin words as long as we realize that is what we're doing, not simply out of ignorance, lol.
But in any case, despite my previous grievances, I'll critique your theory a tad. First, you can't truly know much about someone with little intel, such as gg; gl; fuck you I hope you die; God I hate race X, so OP; I love your handle, I love your portrait, can I have your babies? etc.
Perhaps your reads can be true, anecdotally, and those instances you read your opponent right (likely by luck), will stick out more than the times you were wrong, at least that's my guess, due to knowledge of cognitive psychological theories of memory formation and emotional encoding, etc.
Although, your tip about anger. Bullshit. I'm sorry for my harsh words, but to ignore your emotions is NOT good advice, and many people on TL seem to think the only way to win is to have the emotional control of a Vulcan. We Humans are emotional beings, and we evolved emotion for a reason: If you get angry or scared, there's probably a good reason, you're being threatened and you need to heighten your response times. Given, you need to learn to control this somewhat, so as not to be sloppy, but it can be benefitial to work with your emotions, not against them. Maybe being more robotic works for people with robotic personalities, but not everyone is wired the same.
Furthermore, as to your reads, they can be culturally specific. For instance, I hear Korean tourneys discourage any chatter, as it is "BM". Or so some casters believe, and not being lucky enough to go to Korea myself, I'll just take their word for it. So, imagine you're reading an opponent as, "Oh he's so quiet, must be a n00b" perhaps he's just from a culture believeing that chatter is bad mannered, perhaps you're right and he doesn't even know how to chat in game, much less use hotkeys. "oh, he said 'gl', must be self-assured and cheesing me". WTF? No. Just, no. Maybe they're genuinely wishing you good luck, and are playing a standard game. And what if they're not wishing you gl? Well, maybe they're superstitious and irrationally believe wishing you luck will increase their own odds of losing. Or, maybe they come from the Broadway philosophy of wishing luck by saying break a leg, for fear that gl will give someone bad luck, and thus by wishing you gl, they're actually improving your odds of having bad luck.
You know, my point is you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. And that's what chatter is, a turnip. I'm just not willing to buy this without more credible data, as it just doesn't make sense, and I can't buy your argument due to a lack of credibility on your part, as you've demonstrated already, your lack of credentials by missusing vocabulary, as many others have pointed out.
I apologize if this rant I had seems a bit scathing and cruel, but I'm just supplying my honest critique, despite whether it hurts your feelings, an unintentional side effect, I promise. But honestly, I think you're going down a blind alley here, and without any prior experience with the person you're up against, you just can't make any good reads like this, and you're best to just improve your mechanics and nothing beats good scouting. Perhaps at the pro level, and especially in best of 3 rounds in a tourney, etc, reads can be made, but on the ladder, you never know your opponent, and I think you're wasting your time attempting such reads.
I could be wrong, perhaps there is indeed something there, despite our abilities to come up with contradicting anecdotal evidence, but without good, objective data, I just can't buy this.
~Duncan Idaho
PS- As to your comment: "...but if you feel you have a hard time spotting what structures mean what when you scout your opponent, then this might give you a general idea if you need to play defensively or if you can play aggressively early game." I believe I can help you here. You dont just scout structures, that is important, but you scout for drone saturation, number and composition of units, positioning of units, what do they reaveal at their ramp vs. what are they trying to hide in the back of the base, current upgrades on units, are any buildings (tech labs, forge, pool, etc.) squirming/flickering, etc. How much energy does the nexus/caster units have? How much gas have they mined? In short, this may be part of your problem, that you simply don't know what to scout for. Sure, obviously you don't have to worry about dt's if they have no dt den (whatever its called, I'm not a Toss player, hehe), assuming they didnt proxy hide it somewhere. But learning how to make reads, and whether they're all-in (typically low worker saturation is your clue), throwing up defensive structures, etc. is what the real pros are scouting for, not just what buildings currently are in their repertoire.
Also, knowing your timings and what is possible to happen at what times, and how strong it can be, and what that implies as to what else they have the ability to do if they pulled off the timing perfectly (usually not much else unless they're just really sloppy and doing a lukewarm, little bit of everything build). Although, getting out of the low levels, I'd advise is less based on reads, and more based upon mechanics, e.g. larvae vomiting, muleing every 50 energy, chronoing efficiently, always making workers, never getting supply blocked (i.e., don't let the "you must construct additional pylons/olords/depots", be your cue to make one, until you get reminded again, always preemptively make them, such that more supply will be available right as you're able to afford/make more units.), etc. Big emphasis on the supply block part, it will help immensely. Knowing what unit counters what is nice, but it's so much easier to get out of the low leagues with brute force rather than finese (i.e., he has a single immortal? no worries, I don't need to switch out of roaches necessarily, cause I have 200 food worth of them.) True, finese can help, but as a caster in one of my tourneys for gold and under I participated back when I was still gold said (Ipp I think was his name? During the Rising Cup here on TL), "Micro can only get you so far, but good macro is what will get you out of the lower leagues." And I can't say how right he was. Learn your mechanics, and the rest will be worth learning later once you improve those first.
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Ahahaha what a hilarious post.
OP is too funny.
Edit:
If troll post then well done. The effort is there, and the results are too (see above my post rofl).
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I have one short answer to counter everything you just said, Duncan.
This was intended to be humorous, and therefore I purposefully misconstrued meanings and averages. I may not be great with math, but I know how to add and I was fully aware of it when I typed it out and it was done that way intentionally.
Wasn't meant as a troll topic, just a good humor one. I guess some of the best trolls are the people who do it accidentally, huh?
EDIT: Also, you can't say listening and using all of your emotions is always a good thing. Rapists follow their emotions, people get murdered over anger, people lose those precious to them, including their lives do to pride.
Emotions should be embraced, but also should be controlled and monitored carefully, lest we allow ourselves to murder, rape, steal ect., ect..
You don't need to be a psyche major to know that practical reasoning skills and rational thinking plummets when anger rears its ugly little head. Even though this was a silly topic intended to be taken as such, it is true that when you are angry you will inevitably get sloppy and make mistakes. Maybe they will be small mistakes as like getting supply blocked, or over-reacting and making more units than necessary.
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On July 03 2011 09:01 drryworrx wrote:
I have one short answer to counter everything you just said, Duncan.
This was intended to be humorous, and therefore I purposefully misconstrued meanings and averages. I may not be great with math, but I know how to add and I was fully aware of it when I typed it out and it was done that way intentionally.
Wasn't meant as a troll topic, just a good humor one. I guess some of the best trolls are the people who do it accidentally, huh?
Oh, so you were trolling... Well, hopefully no Mod sees that, as that's not taken lightly... lol jk
In any case, whatever then, I really thought you were serious and thought I should help you out before you got mugged and raped in that blind alley you were going down...
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haha duncan. I didn't "troll" intentionally though. My sole intention was to just release a "guide" that was so absurd and ridiculous that people would laugh at it and enjoy themselves reading it. I haven't been on forums for a while though and I forget that some people do take it really seriously.
And thank you, my butt cheek is not ready to be spread just quite yet 
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On July 03 2011 08:39 DuncanIdaho wrote:
Drrywarrx,
Well, as a quantitative psychologist (a statistician who knows a thing or two about psychology), and know that I have taught several undergraduate courses at a division one university here in the US over statisticis and psychology, here's my two cents.
First, I wish you would give your credentials, and as you did not, I bet at best you've taken a psychology class or two in college, if that, though who knows, maybe you were just sloppy not mentioning your own credentials. Second, as many have pointed out, "psychoanalysis" is improperly used, as it stems from Freudian theories, essentially classifying people as having problems later in life, personality-wise, due to experiences in stages of development (oral,anal,genital, etc.) Now, also keep in mind that classifying people into "cubby-hole" categories is about the only relationship to psychoanalysis you have, that and it's loosely based on your own psychological theories. Third, I'd like to point out that your percentages add up to over 100%. Given, you never mentioned mutual exclusivity, so perhaps overlap does exist, though I am concerned about the numbers. Furthermore, I'd like the numbers to be based upon true, objective counting of your games and communications, not just "willy-nilly" anecdotal experiences, as I fear your theory may be based upon. Forth, nit-picky again, but R.E.M. is indeed rapid eye momvement, but I hope you realize that it refers to a behavioral indicator of when the subject is dreaming, not scanning your field of view quickly while conscious, but I'll forgive you for that, as we can recoin words as long as we realize that is what we're doing, not simply out of ignorance, lol.
But in any case, despite my previous grievances, I'll critique your theory a tad. First, you can't truly know much about someone with little intel, such as gg; gl; fuck you I hope you die; God I hate race X, so OP; I love your handle, I love your portrait, can I have your babies? etc.
Perhaps your reads can be true, anecdotally, and those instances you read your opponent right (likely by luck), will stick out more than the times you were wrong, at least that's my guess, due to knowledge of cognitive psychological theories of memory formation and emotional encoding, etc.
Although, your tip about anger. Bullshit. I'm sorry for my harsh words, but to ignore your emotions is NOT good advice, and many people on TL seem to think the only way to win is to have the emotional control of a Vulcan. We Humans are emotional beings, and we evolved emotion for a reason: If you get angry or scared, there's probably a good reason, you're being threatened and you need to heighten your response times. Given, you need to learn to control this somewhat, so as not to be sloppy, but it can be benefitial to work with your emotions, not against them. Maybe being more robotic works for people with robotic personalities, but not everyone is wired the same.
Furthermore, as to your reads, they can be culturally specific. For instance, I hear Korean tourneys discourage any chatter, as it is "BM". Or so some casters believe, and not being lucky enough to go to Korea myself, I'll just take their word for it. So, imagine you're reading an opponent as, "Oh he's so quiet, must be a n00b" perhaps he's just from a culture believeing that chatter is bad mannered, perhaps you're right and he doesn't even know how to chat in game, much less use hotkeys. "oh, he said 'gl', must be self-assured and cheesing me". WTF? No. Just, no. Maybe they're genuinely wishing you good luck, and are playing a standard game. And what if they're not wishing you gl? Well, maybe they're superstitious and irrationally believe wishing you luck will increase their own odds of losing. Or, maybe they come from the Broadway philosophy of wishing luck by saying break a leg, for fear that gl will give someone bad luck, and thus by wishing you gl, they're actually improving your odds of having bad luck.
You know, my point is you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. And that's what chatter is, a turnip. I'm just not willing to buy this without more credible data, as it just doesn't make sense, and I can't buy your argument due to a lack of credibility on your part, as you've demonstrated already, your lack of credentials by missusing vocabulary, as many others have pointed out.
I apologize if this rant I had seems a bit scathing and cruel, but I'm just supplying my honest critique, despite whether it hurts your feelings, an unintentional side effect, I promise. But honestly, I think you're going down a blind alley here, and without any prior experience with the person you're up against, you just can't make any good reads like this, and you're best to just improve your mechanics and nothing beats good scouting. Perhaps at the pro level, and especially in best of 3 rounds in a tourney, etc, reads can be made, but on the ladder, you never know your opponent, and I think you're wasting your time attempting such reads.
I could be wrong, perhaps there is indeed something there, despite our abilities to come up with contradicting anecdotal evidence, but without good, objective data, I just can't buy this.
~Duncan Idaho
PS- As to your comment: "...but if you feel you have a hard time spotting what structures mean what when you scout your opponent, then this might give you a general idea if you need to play defensively or if you can play aggressively early game." I believe I can help you here. You dont just scout structures, that is important, but you scout for drone saturation, number and composition of units, positioning of units, what do they reaveal at their ramp vs. what are they trying to hide in the back of the base, current upgrades on units, are any buildings (tech labs, forge, pool, etc.) squirming/flickering, etc. How much energy does the nexus/caster units have? How much gas have they mined? In short, this may be part of your problem, that you simply don't know what to scout for. Sure, obviously you don't have to worry about dt's if they have no dt den (whatever its called, I'm not a Toss player, hehe), assuming they didnt proxy hide it somewhere. But learning how to make reads, and whether they're all-in (typically low worker saturation is your clue), throwing up defensive structures, etc. is what the real pros are scouting for, not just what buildings currently are in their repertoire.
Also, knowing your timings and what is possible to happen at what times, and how strong it can be, and what that implies as to what else they have the ability to do if they pulled off the timing perfectly (usually not much else unless they're just really sloppy and doing a lukewarm, little bit of everything build). Although, getting out of the low levels, I'd advise is less based on reads, and more based upon mechanics, e.g. larvae vomiting, muleing every 50 energy, chronoing efficiently, always making workers, never getting supply blocked (i.e., don't let the "you must construct additional pylons/olords/depots", be your cue to make one, until you get reminded again, always preemptively make them, such that more supply will be available right as you're able to afford/make more units.), etc. Big emphasis on the supply block part, it will help immensely. Knowing what unit counters what is nice, but it's so much easier to get out of the low leagues with brute force rather than finese (i.e., he has a single immortal? no worries, I don't need to switch out of roaches necessarily, cause I have 200 food worth of them.) True, finese can help, but as a caster in one of my tourneys for gold and under I participated back when I was still gold said (Ipp I think was his name? During the Rising Cup here on TL), "Micro can only get you so far, but good macro is what will get you out of the lower leagues." And I can't say how right he was. Learn your mechanics, and the rest will be worth learning later once you improve those first.
Mother fucking epic win good sir.
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^he mad. A Job well trolled
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I always say glhf, regardless of whether I cheese, play standard or try something crazy. the game is no fun when you're mean.
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(Hello, I am joe. This is my first post, and I only post because I am currently in training to be a psychoanalyst, and because i am diamond in everything).
I am so glad that another member of this exceptional community has observed the pronounced affect that the psyche can have upon play at any given moment. Of course, we all know this: MC, dictated by his charismatic bravado, destroying because of his attitutude; Idra, refusing to be dismissed, because he thinks he is the best; Happy, dominating in silence better than anyone.
Yet this discussion is always already flawed by its lack of discussion about what the self actually is when it plays the game: isn't this really the question?
As of thus far, this dicussion has focused on what a player says before the game; and this is less that worthy of discussion, imho. The idea is phenomonal though--how can i think better to play better???
I think that the answer lie in the typical lacanian response (french psychoanalytic philosopher, pay no mind if you don't know him, he was a baller), which is to say, that it is less that I play the game, then that the game plays me, at least when I am doing well.
There is a theory in contemporary american psychoanalytic theory called flow, and i think that the SC player, when playing well, perfectly emulates the ideal: focused; concentrated; loss of time consciousness; focused on a singular goal.
THe best question, then, is how can I enter this state???
Psychoanalysis is about desire; but I have already misspoken: psychoanalysis is about why we desire what we desire, and how. Why does psy consistently play 15 hatch when he knows of the high probability of a 2 rax all in? Why does Idra demand perfection, refuse to win without it; why does he believe the win to be worth more than it actually is? Whats up with Julyzerg, so quiet and underspoken, and simultaneously so aggressive, demanding that the Other react to his play?
I say Other, rather than other, because this other, the one we play upon the latter, is not a simple person we would know from our normal existence; no, we know that he will behave in such and such a way because of the meta-game: litteraly, the 'I' that is reflected in the system.
Thus, I believe that the best way to capture the energy engulfed within the desire to dominate is paradoxically distancing oneself from that desire: engaging desire merely makes you repeat the meta; this is is easily counterable; the best, the best, the best, do not play like everyone else, but like themselves.
There are a variety of tenable strategies in a game with the complexity of SCII; thus, the best question must be: where am I, how do I play, and why is the way I play better?
What the Other says at the begining of the game is a guessing game, but I do admire your bravado. Psychoanalysis is useful in this setting, but not to the extent that you can statistically verify a persons tendancies based upon their begining of the game comments. E.g. (no pun), I frequently open games saying: "Isn't Shakira fine? I'd love to waka her waka."
This is a good tactic if it works, because no one would have a ready answer, and hence would be distracted from the required singular desire of the SCII player, the desire to fucking kill.
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@guapogato
Jesus christ I would hate to be your professor. Thousands of commas, verbose and in-eloquent writing style. At least provide a tl;dr if you write a wall of text. Sorry if I'm being rude but that was a terrible read.
On topic:
OP should spend less time "psychoanalyzing" his bronze opponents and learn the damn mechanics of the game instead.
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United Arab Emirates8 Posts
Dear drryworrx,
Let me say that although I disagree with your analysis I do think it's cool that you put in time and effort into thinking about this. Don't let the haters get to you. It's ok to be wrong! but you're thinking and that's a start. As for those that say you should focus on your mechanics well, let them be. Play your game. Enjoy it! that's what Starcraft is about. Not everybody wants to be in masters or grandmasters. My brother likes it just fine in bronze, I'm in high plat at the moment and I cast a lot of games with Imba.tv.
I mean seriously, the majority of players type gl hf and forget that that's exactly why they spend time playing the game :D
Antarah
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it took me until here
---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think.
to realize he was trolling. before then, i thought he was just genuinely stupid. man, i suck
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Why is it that if someone has a complete breakthrough in strategy they always have under 50 posts.
---------Keep your ears clean kids. It could save your probes.
I'll add something that's always helped me. I've never been a huge fan of day9. I think he rambles a lot and it's hard for me to dedicate an hour I could be on the ladder to watch him live. But when I skip through his VODs and pick the useful information out of the personality and humor I've learned a few things and one of them is very pertinent to this thread.
If you intend on winning and not making friends:
At the start of every game type gl hf then open message log and block communication.
Then focus on the game.
That hygiene section was just absolutely hilarious. I assure you, you're in silver because of reasons that don't relate to breaking nails or cloggy ears. While I personally appreciate the effort, it would be much better directed towards practicing.
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Sofar I have noticed one simple rule.
If your opponent is a zerg and is giving you a huge chat right at the start.
"where u from?"
"what leage u from?"
"are you good in zvz?" and so on.
He will 9 out of 10 times be cheesing you, hoping to distract you.
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Most "silent" types I face on ladder are 70% cheesing me, sometimes I just blind counter these cheeses just by seeing if they respond or not
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On July 01 2011 03:17 JWD wrote:I really can't believe you guys are taking this so seriously. Doesn't anyone else appreciate the whimsy here? Sheeeeeeesh. Yes, like there is some risk that players who read this thread will stop scouting come ON guys. OP, I enjoyed reading. More entertaining than 90% of purported guides posted in SC2 Strategy.
no i dont appreciate the whimsy. nor do i appreciate u trolling me with pictures of dessert. nor does this guide have a more of sample size than 1. according to the forum guidelines: "Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player". So what happened here?
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I am high master but i am always silent no GL HF from me, i will only talk if you pause or i have to pause.
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Like I've said many times, it's not supposed to be something you live and die your games by, just in the lower tiers such as what I am in, just something to keep in the back of your mind that is a possibility of what MIGHT happen. even if it is such a slim chance of 125%+.
Where bad manners is still highly prevalent.
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Very interesting.
Moar !
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This is a troll OP thread if it isn't incredibly obvious.
Oh yes the statistics by percentage are very accurate, minimum of 125% players are categorized!
"---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think."
If you have ear wax that builds up so much that you can't hear anymore, then you have a medical issue.
"All information that I will write down here has been collected largely by myself, with help from my brother, during the course of our plays of the game from the first days of the beta up until present day"
Wait wait let me get this straight. You claim to have gotten the beta key at an extremely early date meaning you are eager to get started early on. And you've been apparantely playing from then all the way till now. So I guess you're obviously in maste- Silver? Really? Does that sound like total bullshit, or did you play 1 game after a week?
Anyway, considering the very high unlikelihood of the content, at LEAST show where you got your numbers. Considering the OP has not bothered to reply to ANYTHING, it means it's just a troll who doesn't care.
Close thread?
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This is a cool guide and i think master players can learn something from this
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Can't believe some here took the OP's word for granted.
Made up percentages are wrong 89% of the time.
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Here we have a low level player, the OP, over complicating things.
Rather than relying on highly subjective interpretation of meaningless data, a player looking to improve should learn to read game facts.
You can avoid a lot of this weird stuff by learning to scout and increasing your execution speed.
The OP really shines a light on what goes on in the mind of players stuck in lower levels. He's basically come up with this system of psychoanalysis to dodge becoming a better scouter.
It's all guess work by the OP even if he has some statistics/replays to back it up, the conclusions are still fuzzy compared to just scouting the opponent to pin him on a build.
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On July 04 2011 07:39 sas911 wrote:
This is a troll OP thread if it isn't incredibly obvious.
Oh yes the statistics by percentage are very accurate, minimum of 125% players are categorized!
"---------Keep your ears clean. Hearing "Your probes are under attack!" the moment it happens versus a second or two later because you've got earwax up the wazu can play a bigger part than you might think."
If you have ear wax that builds up so much that you can't hear anymore, then you have a medical issue.
"All information that I will write down here has been collected largely by myself, with help from my brother, during the course of our plays of the game from the first days of the beta up until present day"
Wait wait let me get this straight. You claim to have gotten the beta key at an extremely early date meaning you are eager to get started early on. And you've been apparantely playing from then all the way till now. So I guess you're obviously in maste- Silver? Really? Does that sound like total bullshit, or did you play 1 game after a week?
Anyway, considering the very high unlikelihood of the content, at LEAST show where you got your numbers. Considering the OP has not bothered to reply to ANYTHING, it means it's just a troll who doesn't care.
Close thread?
I have been replying to people. Did you even look at my name or did you just read the post?
And to you other dude who I don't know your name of, the last post guy:
I am not dodging getting better at scouting, and I'm not encouraging people to skip scouting and do just this. I have said several times in here that you should NOT stop scouting. Maybe I should say it in all caps so you can read it?
THIS IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO TAKE PLACE OF SCOUTING, IT IS JUST SOMETHING PRE-SCOUTING TO THINK ABOUT, NOT TO LIVE BY. JUST TO GET YOU TO THINK OF THE POSSIBILITY BASED ON WHAT I FIND.
there, hope all of you who apparently can't read can see that one at least. Don't say I'm not saying anything when I am and you're just being ignorant, mkay?
Tooda-loo.
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As much as i respect everyone(mostly) posting on Team Liquid. It would be better off for anyone (range from Bronze to Professional) to just practice rather than spend your time reading the OP and the comments. That is, if you want to get better, not to laugh/rage/compliment/ignore at OP.
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On July 03 2011 13:18 guapogato wrote:
(Hello, I am joe. This is my first post, and I only post because I am currently in training to be a psychoanalyst, and because i am diamond in everything).
I am so glad that another member of this exceptional community has observed the pronounced affect that the psyche can have upon play at any given moment. Of course, we all know this: MC, dictated by his charismatic bravado, destroying because of his attitutude; Idra, refusing to be dismissed, because he thinks he is the best; Happy, dominating in silence better than anyone.
Yet this discussion is always already flawed by its lack of discussion about what the self actually is when it plays the game: isn't this really the question?
As of thus far, this dicussion has focused on what a player says before the game; and this is less that worthy of discussion, imho. The idea is phenomonal though--how can i think better to play better???
I think that the answer lie in the typical lacanian response (french psychoanalytic philosopher, pay no mind if you don't know him, he was a baller), which is to say, that it is less that I play the game, then that the game plays me, at least when I am doing well.
There is a theory in contemporary american psychoanalytic theory called flow, and i think that the SC player, when playing well, perfectly emulates the ideal: focused; concentrated; loss of time consciousness; focused on a singular goal.
THe best question, then, is how can I enter this state???
Psychoanalysis is about desire; but I have already misspoken: psychoanalysis is about why we desire what we desire, and how. Why does psy consistently play 15 hatch when he knows of the high probability of a 2 rax all in? Why does Idra demand perfection, refuse to win without it; why does he believe the win to be worth more than it actually is? Whats up with Julyzerg, so quiet and underspoken, and simultaneously so aggressive, demanding that the Other react to his play?
I say Other, rather than other, because this other, the one we play upon the latter, is not a simple person we would know from our normal existence; no, we know that he will behave in such and such a way because of the meta-game: litteraly, the 'I' that is reflected in the system.
Thus, I believe that the best way to capture the energy engulfed within the desire to dominate is paradoxically distancing oneself from that desire: engaging desire merely makes you repeat the meta; this is is easily counterable; the best, the best, the best, do not play like everyone else, but like themselves.
There are a variety of tenable strategies in a game with the complexity of SCII; thus, the best question must be: where am I, how do I play, and why is the way I play better?
What the Other says at the begining of the game is a guessing game, but I do admire your bravado. Psychoanalysis is useful in this setting, but not to the extent that you can statistically verify a persons tendancies based upon their begining of the game comments. E.g. (no pun), I frequently open games saying: "Isn't Shakira fine? I'd love to waka her waka."
This is a good tactic if it works, because no one would have a ready answer, and hence would be distracted from the required singular desire of the SCII player, the desire to fucking kill.
Hahahahahahahaha...Lacan + SC2 = greatest post ever. You my friend have had a great win.
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I made a topic about the influence of the greeting on the playstyle a while ago and the general consensus was:
If they say nothing at all, they don't care about your feelings so they will cheese you.
If they say just gl, they do a strategy which you can only defend with luck, meaning they will cheese you.
If they say more than gl hf, they try to distract you and then they will cheese you.
If they say just gl hf, they try to lull you into a false sense of security and then they will cheese you.
If they say any swearwords, they are angry about a previous loss and they will cheese you.
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I had no idea earwax could do that to your hearing, madness!!!
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And whats about flamers?
a) gl hf
b) fuck urself
What they do, Mr. Psychoanalysis?
Lol, what a nonsense thread, srsly nc.
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Mods always whine about stuff on this forum, hell, even helping out is considered temp bannable unless you watch every replay OP posts... yet posts like this are allowed?
Seriously, are the moderators joking with us?
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I'm very silent player, but it doesn't have anything to do with losing streaks. I'm simply too preoccupied talking with voices inside my head.
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On July 03 2011 13:18 guapogato wrote:
(Hello, I am joe. This is my first post, and I only post because I am currently in training to be a psychoanalyst, and because i am diamond in everything).
I am so glad that another member of this exceptional community has observed the pronounced affect that the psyche can have upon play at any given moment. Of course, we all know this: MC, dictated by his charismatic bravado, destroying because of his attitutude; Idra, refusing to be dismissed, because he thinks he is the best; Happy, dominating in silence better than anyone.
Yet this discussion is always already flawed by its lack of discussion about what the self actually is when it plays the game: isn't this really the question?
As of thus far, this dicussion has focused on what a player says before the game; and this is less that worthy of discussion, imho. The idea is phenomonal though--how can i think better to play better???
I think that the answer lie in the typical lacanian response (french psychoanalytic philosopher, pay no mind if you don't know him, he was a baller), which is to say, that it is less that I play the game, then that the game plays me, at least when I am doing well.
There is a theory in contemporary american psychoanalytic theory called flow, and i think that the SC player, when playing well, perfectly emulates the ideal: focused; concentrated; loss of time consciousness; focused on a singular goal.
THe best question, then, is how can I enter this state???
Psychoanalysis is about desire; but I have already misspoken: psychoanalysis is about why we desire what we desire, and how. Why does psy consistently play 15 hatch when he knows of the high probability of a 2 rax all in? Why does Idra demand perfection, refuse to win without it; why does he believe the win to be worth more than it actually is? Whats up with Julyzerg, so quiet and underspoken, and simultaneously so aggressive, demanding that the Other react to his play?
I say Other, rather than other, because this other, the one we play upon the latter, is not a simple person we would know from our normal existence; no, we know that he will behave in such and such a way because of the meta-game: litteraly, the 'I' that is reflected in the system.
Thus, I believe that the best way to capture the energy engulfed within the desire to dominate is paradoxically distancing oneself from that desire: engaging desire merely makes you repeat the meta; this is is easily counterable; the best, the best, the best, do not play like everyone else, but like themselves.
There are a variety of tenable strategies in a game with the complexity of SCII; thus, the best question must be: where am I, how do I play, and why is the way I play better?
What the Other says at the begining of the game is a guessing game, but I do admire your bravado. Psychoanalysis is useful in this setting, but not to the extent that you can statistically verify a persons tendancies based upon their begining of the game comments. E.g. (no pun), I frequently open games saying: "Isn't Shakira fine? I'd love to waka her waka."
This is a good tactic if it works, because no one would have a ready answer, and hence would be distracted from the required singular desire of the SCII player, the desire to fucking kill.
you're an entertaining guy
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On a slightly similar note when I first started SC2ing sometimes Id get nervous playing someone who was Slightly Favored or Favored, especially when they had an unusual portrait which I presumed was from getting a lot of wins. Which I also assumed meant they were very good. Naturally enough this was often the case.
Accordingly, Ive made sure as I racked up 250, 500, 750 terran solo wins that Id update my portrait with the appropriate reward in the hope that some opponents may play worse against me, i.e be somewhat nervous.
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As all this advice and reflection is based on your experiences; I would like to see where you are pulling these statistics to join your thought-out ideas on what inferences you can make from player's conversations.
Do you save replays to look over how often you meet opponents of each type (silent, self assured)? How many matches have you played to break down the percentages? 20? 50? 100? 200? When you throw out these percentile brackets (like 12-13%), I am forced to assume you have either played over 100 games or like to pull statistics out of your rear end. When I do the same, I go more broad, like, "I 4gate around 25% of my PvP matches" or somesuch. And do check your percentages. Words have meaning, numbers have meaning. If you want to tell us the ratio of players you face that do things, but don't actually log statistics in any form, use (for example) Very Rare, Rare, Common, Very Common.
I went in here expecting quite a bit more. Looks like you came in thinking Guide and Helpful for Low Level and really just wanted to share your discussion on how you characterize the players you face, and what kind of observations you have used to correlate their conversation to their play. This topic is much better served as [D] Observations on how to Psychoanalyze your opponent. Since your facts and analysis are offered merely on your own merits, it is not a Guide--not enough effort.
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Oh dear god, you just made me spray out coffee all over my screen. Thanks ALOT!
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EPT
