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[G] Chinese PvZ - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Skwid1g
Profile Joined April 2011
United States953 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 04:31:17
June 25 2011 04:30 GMT
#121
:X hit back on my browser and it reposted, my bad.
NaDa/Fantasy/Zero/Soulkey pls
VeryAverage
Profile Joined January 2011
United States424 Posts
June 25 2011 06:46 GMT
#122
I've actually been following this up with HT/Archon instead of the double robo colossus as storms/feedback seems to solve most of my problems and because I already have the twilight council, it's a nice transition.

It also feels less vulnerable because if you didn't do a ton of damage with the blink stalkers, you feel weak with the double robo colossus until you hit a good number.

Also, storm drops are hilariously good.

The only thing I'm worried about is mass, mass muta. Can't do anything with storm if they fly over your units. I've hit one spire player and I got lucky and blinked up into his main and sniped his spire before he could get a critical mass of mutas.

Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
June 25 2011 08:35 GMT
#123
On June 25 2011 09:40 NB wrote:
i dont really see how this build is any new... early 2 bases lings with good upgrades infestors crush this (aka destiny forever 2 bases style). This basicly a way trying to apply TvZ into PvZ using the DPS of well upgraded stalks and blink mobility which 2-2 lings +fugnal just destroy it.

Any abusing mobility? u clearly hvnt seen blink stalkers +mothership on NA sever... Compare to that build, this one is just child play.

Not trying to bash/troll but I strongly recommend people dont use it else you just gona hear more cry about infestor imbalance (which i think is ballanced as a high level NA Protoss)


If you see he blindly went for ling/infestor with your 6gate push, you can go chargelot/archon which solves your problem. The 6gate opener is awesome because infestor/ling or a fast third aren't that good anymore.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
June 25 2011 09:11 GMT
#124
mass blink stalkers might be better than my similar 2 base chargelot/collosi

i use collosi due to love of the unit really, and build stalkers just as muta/corruptor counter

these guys are just amazing... i wonder if i can beat them PvP
Let's Do This! Leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
RockOut
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway39 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 09:22:55
June 25 2011 09:21 GMT
#125
The strength of the stalker heavy builds is not how they beat the zerg army. Speaking as a zerg, if I just get burrow, I can pretty much be safe until observers are out no matter what composition I get ( within reason). The strength is all the cool other advantages you get by doing this. The way of thinking shown in this thread is why the pvz mu has gone from being protoss dominated to not seemingly imbalanced at all. You tosses need to grow, no offence, or this forum will be filled with tosses complaining about imbalance very soon. I think this thread shows a very wrong headspace.
IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
June 25 2011 09:24 GMT
#126
On June 23 2011 02:39 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
I'm only in Diamond and I've been using this build a while (the general 7 gate, blink, +2, obs). Does that mean I'm ahead of my time? :D

It is very, very good. I've not lost with it yet in about 10 attempts.

What I like is that it can be somewhat all-inish - never resume probe production, don't expand, CB gates, or you can expand behind it with blink, +2, and robo already up.


infestors shut this down. ling infestor


lol i happen to go infestors always unlike some zergs who still prefer mutas

this build freaks me out though... when there are cliffs to abuse

i can't possibly defend against such a mobile force of stalkers without having my faster lings fly away from my infestors.
Let's Do This! Leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 10:23:03
June 25 2011 10:17 GMT
#127
this build is excellent just need alot of apm to do it lolol. also mass burrowed roaches with ups and good micro from zerg can beat this.

EDIT: by beat i mean KILL u
skyafterrain
Profile Joined November 2010
Thailand22 Posts
June 25 2011 11:31 GMT
#128
On June 25 2011 19:17 panda_inc wrote:
this build is excellent just need alot of apm to do it lolol. also mass burrowed roaches with ups and good micro from zerg can beat this.

EDIT: by beat i mean KILL u


Didn't this build provide you an observer.
With equivalent micro, I believe Blink stalkers own Roaches.
There is nothing either right or wrong but thinking makes it so
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 11:55:52
June 25 2011 11:47 GMT
#129
^
you forget zerg players can micro and do timing attacks too.
the weakness of this build is the lack of sentries.
you can blink all you like but when there is 40 roaches in your face wtf are you gonna do.
if you do have a robotics it will actually reduce ur chances of successfully holding it because you have less units. You need very good micro a few sentries and good cannon placement to beat the roach push.


EDIT: its a really good build, what I meant by apm earlier was that you have to be very active and careful and tactical with your stalkers. personally I prefer other easier to execute strategies because I feel this strategy can be too risky if you're not careful; and I don't recommend this build at all to players below diamond. Even diamond players will prolly struggle to macro properly while doing this build.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
June 25 2011 15:56 GMT
#130
Added some more stuff. Thanks for the day9 link
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Darclite
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1021 Posts
June 25 2011 21:11 GMT
#131
I think that this style will become more popular with the new maps: FFE is more viable on some of those than some maps in the pool, Slag Pits and Delta Quadrant are not good for this and will likely be removed (also letting people reorganize their vetoes). Most of the maps have cliffs accessible from low ground as long as you have vision (while this may seem obvious, keep in mind that it is easier to see the low-to-high-ground-blink coming on maps like Shattered Temple, Xel'Naga Caverns, and Metalopolis). The abundance of destructible rocks also works in favor of blink stalkers as well.

I may be wrong, as we don't know all that much about play on the Season 3 maps, but this seems likely in my opinion.
They're fools. You should eat them.
MassIncestor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
743 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 18:41:39
June 25 2011 21:23 GMT
#132
On June 24 2011 18:32 sleepingdog wrote:
On the problem of forge FE: personally, I'm currently playing around a lot with one gate FE in single player...if you've seen socke destroy ret on shakuras with a one gate FE into blink rush, then you'll know that this can be extremely strong. This does NOT mean that forge FE is inferiour, it's an alternative approach that serves two distinct purposes:
a) Make fast 6 gate blink viable on maps that aren't good for forge FE
b) Hide your tech as well as possible: one gate FE is inferior economicly but should - in theory - force zerg into a more defensive opening since a one gate FE opening build does NOT exclude a one base all-in, while forge FE does.


Your post might be blue, but that's not how Zerg early game works.

1gate FE goes down at 5:10, up until that point there is exactly _0_ deviation in what a Zerg does between FE and fast Cyber. Putting a Nexus down that early DOES exclude a 1-base-allin. And please don't argue with Nexus-cancel-4gate.

You don't take a 3rd before that against Forge/Nexus FE anyways because you want more drones before spending 300 minerals on a new hatchery.

On maps that favor Forge FE there is absolutely no reason not to do it, if you chrono your probes you can keep up with Zerg worker production without a problem, it's quite hilarious actually, to see a Zerg pumping pure drones off 4 Zerglings, and MC being able to keep up with that into the early 50's of the harvester-count.
ItsMartyz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands17 Posts
June 25 2011 21:25 GMT
#133
great build. I usually make a few(10) ht`s for storms and argons
What would you ask of us?
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 25 2011 21:30 GMT
#134
Sigh

I gotta deal with this shit too?

I+ Show Spoiler +
t's a good strategy, and a good guide too.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
ItsMartyz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands17 Posts
June 25 2011 21:33 GMT
#135
great build. I usually make a few(10) ht`s for storms and argons
What would you ask of us?
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
June 25 2011 21:53 GMT
#136
On June 25 2011 17:35 Arcanefrost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 09:40 NB wrote:
i dont really see how this build is any new... early 2 bases lings with good upgrades infestors crush this (aka destiny forever 2 bases style). This basicly a way trying to apply TvZ into PvZ using the DPS of well upgraded stalks and blink mobility which 2-2 lings +fugnal just destroy it.

Any abusing mobility? u clearly hvnt seen blink stalkers +mothership on NA sever... Compare to that build, this one is just child play.

Not trying to bash/troll but I strongly recommend people dont use it else you just gona hear more cry about infestor imbalance (which i think is ballanced as a high level NA Protoss)


If you see he blindly went for ling/infestor with your 6gate push, you can go chargelot/archon which solves your problem. The 6gate opener is awesome because infestor/ling or a fast third aren't that good anymore.

"SEE" is an interesting concept here where u committing to a 2 bases timing attack and ignore scouting tech. As the OP said, 3rd bases is almost never an option in this kinda strategy. How does chargelots archon is good when an infestor just fugnal a ball of zealot and they cant do anything?

everyone should know by now that with the infestor ling strat, by the normal time P push out with +1, lings already half way to +2+2 with at least 5 spine crawler. Again, Infestor is the hard counter to any sort of stupid 2 bases rush that Protoss bring on the table. Go watch destiny and you will understand.

strat like (im not taking my 3rd base etc) should never be taken seriously the better you get.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Xaeldaren
Profile Joined June 2010
Ireland588 Posts
June 26 2011 01:28 GMT
#137
How does this deal with early pressure?

I'm ashamed to admit it but I'm in Silver league and no one plays for a macro game, I'm getting hammered constantly by early Zerglings/Roaches.
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
June 26 2011 02:57 GMT
#138
Hello, 1k diamond zerg, here's my humble perspective

Ling/Roach is our way of saying, "Bet you can't macro that well under pressure" to a fast expanding protoss. We're usually right, in my experience.

I hate blink stalkers. They're the most cost effective thing in the game if you get them before I get infestors. You can kill infinite amounts of certain zerg units with proper micro and the micro is very easy for you. If I get a whiff of this build when I scout you, you're getting a roach/ling all-in, because I'd rather just kill you than deal with that shit

So, that means this build is really effective, and you should be very wary for early zerg all-ins because we hate blink stalkers. So much.

I would like to know what Protoss are afraid of seeing against this build, as if I let it happen, I pretty much lose every time. There doesn't seem to be a zerg "macro oriented" solution to these blink stalker builds.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
June 26 2011 08:03 GMT
#139
On June 26 2011 06:53 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 17:35 Arcanefrost wrote:
On June 25 2011 09:40 NB wrote:
i dont really see how this build is any new... early 2 bases lings with good upgrades infestors crush this (aka destiny forever 2 bases style). This basicly a way trying to apply TvZ into PvZ using the DPS of well upgraded stalks and blink mobility which 2-2 lings +fugnal just destroy it.

Any abusing mobility? u clearly hvnt seen blink stalkers +mothership on NA sever... Compare to that build, this one is just child play.

Not trying to bash/troll but I strongly recommend people dont use it else you just gona hear more cry about infestor imbalance (which i think is ballanced as a high level NA Protoss)


If you see he blindly went for ling/infestor with your 6gate push, you can go chargelot/archon which solves your problem. The 6gate opener is awesome because infestor/ling or a fast third aren't that good anymore.

"SEE" is an interesting concept here where u committing to a 2 bases timing attack and ignore scouting tech. As the OP said, 3rd bases is almost never an option in this kinda strategy. How does chargelots archon is good when an infestor just fugnal a ball of zealot and they cant do anything?

everyone should know by now that with the infestor ling strat, by the normal time P push out with +1, lings already half way to +2+2 with at least 5 spine crawler. Again, Infestor is the hard counter to any sort of stupid 2 bases rush that Protoss bring on the table. Go watch destiny and you will understand.

strat like (im not taking my 3rd base etc) should never be taken seriously the better you get.


I am not by any means commiting to a 2base push. The 6gate zealot +1 is to put pressure on him and give him trouble if he has a fast third. I use my push to scout what composition he has and get hallu to scout later on.

Also how can the zerg possibly have 2/2 by the 9min mark. And 5spine crawlers is quite the exaggeration, if he really did get 5 of them he's way overreacting and you can just take your third.

I thought people reached a consensus on chargelot/archon being one of the best unit compositions against doubleling infestors.

I don't recall saying "third base is almost never an option", expo timing is between 10:30 and 12:00 in a standard game, although if you can do damage you can get it later like lovecd and lovett.

And I'm not sure why you call this "a stupid 2base rush", the gameplan is to go into lategame with a lead created by constant midgame pressure.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
June 27 2011 04:28 GMT
#140
I have not tried this style beyond the 2base timing attack with +2 and blink, but if you are looking for a player who does this sort of strategy very well, try checking out Blackcitadel's stream on TL, he quite frequently goes for the mass blink stalker play.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
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