Hey guys, I've been having a bit of trouble in some late game situations as zerg when going up against broodlords. My build focuses on getting a fast 3-3 while turtling to about 4-5 bases and then unleashing on my opponent all over the map with roach hydra infestor. This is a very gas heavy build, and my spire is usually fairly delayed.
I have had several late game situations where I'm way ahead in upgrades and sometimes even bases, but my opponent has worked on getting to brood lord tech very quickly. Assuming I don't scout this right away, how would you guys suggest I micro against a broodlord-roach army with only roach-hydra-infestor?
I find that with this unit combination, it's nearly impossible to get to the broodlords with infested terrans and hydras. I guess I could work on having small forces all over the map that will be hard to clean up with such an immobile force, but that only goes so far. What should be my approach to this situation?
Get less roaches, and more infestors, get more queens and spread creep FASTER. Play ZvZ after surviving the first 6 minutes as an Infestor-Roach turtle and get a spire quicker if you need to transform your tech.
to deal with broodlords you need to get corruptors or if you kill all your opponents ground army hydras + infested terrans will do the job nicely.
Also getting them yourself is pretty good as well .
With only roach/hydra/infestor just try to throw down a ton of infested terrans and snipe the broodlords. If your at his base when your fighting and his broodlords pop just retreat and get a spire. Honestly you should be scouting with an overlord every once in awhile to see if your opponent is going hive and getting hive tech.
Broods are slow. Don't fight them. Force a base trade. Roaches win every time.
edit:
I guess its not always this cut and dry, but to be 100% direct:
If you find yourself fighting roaches vs broods, you're not going to win army vs army. You have to use what you have: mobility. Kill bases, deny tech and production, and win that way.
Wtf is up with the replies in this thread? If you see broods without a spire, put down a spire immediately and do what Mr.Bitter said and stall by running around his broods and hitting his expos/tech if you can. Btw, hydras are terrible vs broods because any decent Zerg isn't going to let you target them. If you have a spire, do what blade55555 said and get corruptors.
On June 07 2011 11:10 Saracen wrote: Wtf is up with the replies in this thread? If you see broods without a spire, put down a spire immediately and do what Mr.Bitter said and stall by running around his broods and hitting his expos/tech if you can. Btw, hydras are terrible vs broods because any decent Zerg isn't going to let you target them. If you have a spire, do what blade55555 said and get corruptors.
I guess let's try generalizing this thread out to a broader topic. In the past couple of months, we've seen the ZvP metagame shift quite a bit. Usually us zerg players had felt forced into roach corrupter when we saw mass colossi, but in recent weeks we've seen multiple unit compositions that are also fairly strong against that style. The first one that comes to mind is roach + baneling drops. Also, the mass ling infestor into ultra has some popularity as well.
Lets apply that metagame shift to the ZvZ late game. Are there multiple avenues to deal with a broodlord army, or do I just need to get corrupters and stop thinking for myself? I would like to think I have more options than just mindlessly getting corruptors in the vs.broodlord situation, but if that's seriously the only way to be able to head-on attack the opponent's army, then I guess I'll just shut up.
On June 07 2011 11:10 Saracen wrote: Wtf is up with the replies in this thread? If you see broods without a spire, put down a spire immediately and do what Mr.Bitter said and stall by running around his broods and hitting his expos/tech if you can. Btw, hydras are terrible vs broods because any decent Zerg isn't going to let you target them. If you have a spire, do what blade55555 said and get corruptors.
I guess let's try generalizing this thread out to a broader topic. In the past couple of months, we've seen the ZvP metagame shift quite a bit. Usually us zerg players had felt forced into roach corrupter when we saw mass colossi, but in recent weeks we've seen multiple unit compositions that are also fairly strong against that style. The first one that comes to mind is roach + baneling drops. Also, the mass ling infestor into ultra has some popularity as well.
Lets apply that metagame shift to the ZvZ late game. Are there multiple avenues to deal with a broodlord army, or do I just need to get corrupters and stop thinking for myself? I would like to think I have more options than just mindlessly getting corruptors in the vs.broodlord situation, but if that's seriously the only way to be able to head-on attack the opponent's army, then I guess I'll just shut up.
Why do you feel like you have to fight the army?
Broods are expensive. Broods are slow. Broods suck up tons of supply. If he wants to push you with broods, pull your drones, expand to the other side of the map, and go wreck his shit with your vastly superior roach army.
To play on your ZvP example:
In the past couple of months we've seen the ZvP metagame shift quite a bit. It's like Zerg players learned that they don't have to engage a maxed Protoss deathball, but that they can force engagements at earlier points in the game, impairing the toss ability to hit critical mass.
Furthermore, we've seen Zergs punish the immobility of the deathball with drop, and multi-pronged, highly mobile roach harass.
Why fight a deathball if you don't have to?
Roach/infestor/brood is just as much of a deathball as stalker/sentry/colossus.
No one is telling you to stop thinking for yourself. We're encouraging you to expand your thinking past such a narrow-minded scope.
edit:
Beyond that, if you just flat out insist on fighting broods heads up, you don't have many options beyond corruptors.
Mutas are ok. Corruptors are going to beat them for cost, though.
Hydras just won't work.
Infestors with neural parasite is an incredibly cute, albeit unlikely to work possibility, as they don't afford you the ability to actually kill the broods.
The only other thing we have that shoots up are queens, and they're not going to do any better than hydras.
I don't understand your concept of mindless here. You have to do what works best. Very few zerg units shoot up, and hydras are completely denied if he has any sort of ground army. You could go mutas, but those are really fragile and have low range. Those are your only options if you want to fight them head on.
If you don't want to do so, do what bitter's saying.
I was just using 'mindlessly' as an adjective, but I was curious if there were any other unit compositions to be able to engage a brood lord army with. If there isn't, then I will use my advantages as a mobile army to pick him apart until my spire tech kicks in. I guess I was just seeing if anyone had any ideas for other ways to engage besides counter attacking. Thanks for the replies.
Attack where he can't be, usually you can hit his third while Blords are at his base, or where ever you can get it. If he tries to fight, he should have much much less army, since he spent the supply and resources for the broodlords, probably 4-5 at least. If you can clear his ground army, then just fungals and infested terran can take them down pretty fast once you have enough infestors.
Just played a game where we both had brood/roach/infestor/corruptor. Fungal the corruptors and target fire/corruption and you have advantage. Numbers are key. Hydralisks will help too but get eaten by broodlords so it's basically an air superiority battle after that. You can still use your roaches to snipe expos or get lots of speedlings if you choose.
You got very valuable insight from MrBitter, Saracen and Blade who have a game knowledge much higher than most commenters here. I would just add that broodlords cost more supply, money and time than corrupters. And they can't shoot back at the corrupters. If you see a spire you will have enough time to put down your own and have corrupters in time. I you insist on engaging with a ground army you take the risk that he fungles your army and just shreds it from afar with the huge broodlord range. I don't think that mutas would be a good idea since they need to get up close and stack, becoming fungle bait.
This is a ZvZ between Catz and Spanishiwa casted by Husky, which pretty much showcases Broodlord vs Ultra tech choices. Spanishiwa takes advantage of the Ultra's better mobility vs the slow, clunky broodlords.
I saw Idra just go mass corrupters when Destiny tried this, so I assume that would be the best choice. ZvZ lategame is so rare though, and I've only used broods once @_@ My opponent went hydras, which I can tell you just die to fungal growth..
First of all, if you're ahead on bases & upgrades and you're going for a roach/hydra/infestor mix, you should have already won. ZvZ is one of the matchups where it is extremely hard to get back into the game; even two or three drone count difference can lose you the game. That's why it's such a technical matchup and a huge test to your mechanics. The difference between a 2/2 roach and a 1/1 roach army is huge, and it makes no sense that you haven't pushed already to do severe economic advantage.
You need to scout. Him putting up a spire and producing corruptors in the process of getting ready for broodlords should guarantee a smaller, weaker ground army. You can simply just push with your roach hydra infestor and throw down a spire in the meanwhile for the inevitable counterpush. Oftentimes you can just win the game that way.
I want to echo what Bitter said about the immobility of brood lords. I almost never use brood lords in any matchup except ZvZ because of this reason. If he opts to go broodlords and slow push your bases, you can respond by dropping nyduses or flanking your army to either force him to turn back or create a base trade situation. He probably wont have hydras, or have a small number since brood lords are a huge resource sink, so eventually you will clean up his army when the spire comes up. If you find out that he's been sneakily teching up on you and you didn't scout properly, it's better to go for a base trade than force yourself into an engagement that guarantees a 100% loss.
EPT
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