• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:16
CET 07:16
KST 15:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Provigil(modafinil) pills Cape Town+27 81 850 2816
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1622 users

[G]Nerchio +1 Roach Speedling Expand ZvZ - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
June 01 2011 20:45 GMT
#21
I've had some experience with the build now. I find it is usually better to put down a lair as one pushes out if the opponent has fast exanded early game because the gas isn't doing much and the minerals are only enough for 6 lings, which wont do much at this point.

If the oppenent has a good defense, grab all 4 gas, make an overseer asap, and go for infestors while droning to use up minerals. It is very hard to hold off the counter attack or mutas without infestors. Use the overseer to contaminate their infestor energy upgrade so that their infestors spawn without extra energy. A third takes too many minerals that are needed for defending the counter attack so one has to use their game sense on that. I managed to get 5 infestors to pop at once when my oppenent reaches my base.
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
June 02 2011 13:00 GMT
#22
On June 01 2011 18:27 Nerchio wrote:
I don't think you can put this build order in a strict food count because the timings differ on what your opponent is doing(harass, ammount of units etc.). Some people say it's not so safe or it's easy to counter but from what i understood up to this point it's one of the safest builds in ZvZ(as safe as possible and at the same time with quite good economy - talking about expanding not the roach/ling attack @ about 9 mins).
We must also remember it's ZvZ so there will never probably be 100% safe build ever.


What would you say one should is the best way to identify and counter this build? The only thing that really gives this away is the poor saturation on the natural and the early evo chamber that goes up before the roaches pop and deny scouting. Missile attack takes 2m30s to evolve and the opponent should suspect that the attack timing waits for that to complete giving him a time window to drone and prepare for an attack. The strength however lies in that it looks like a pure roach build and the speedling switch is unscoutable (save for a ol sacrifice) as it happens in the main behind the roaches. The opponent would be unlikely to build any banelings against an apparent roach build.

What would you say about maynarding ~15-20 drones and take the 2nd gas on the natural, saturating that instead of the main as the main is unscoutable due to the roaches on the choke. Or do you think that leaves your too vulnerable as you can't scout the opponent?

It seems like an extremely powerful build that might be a zerg standard. It's virtually unscoutable and even if you anticipate it, the only advantage you can squeeze out is a marginal drone lead as it hits extremely hard.
OhMyGawd
Profile Joined February 2011
United States264 Posts
June 09 2011 23:44 GMT
#23
Really nice build

Think this will be my new opener, i love how it gives you the option to all in if you want or go strait up macro.

zomg
Uraotoko
Profile Joined December 2010
Chile15 Posts
July 18 2011 14:53 GMT
#24
Great guide. I think this should be added to the liquipedia, at least as stub but most likely will become a certified build
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-18 16:27:50
July 18 2011 16:12 GMT
#25
The problem with these sort of guides and transcribed build orders is that they often don't include or talk about the variations the players use based on scouting.

As the zerg player who has probably studied the most nerchio ZvZ-reps, I feel there's one big omission in the guide (apart from many small nuances that important but OK to omit).

If the opponent opens hatch first nerchio likes to skip the roach warren and go into a delayed ling speed opening instead, with an immediate expansion of his own. I saw someone reference to nerchio using this vs. morrow who always opened hatch first.

I want to try my special build vs you more nerchio.
CaptPanda
Profile Joined August 2010
48 Posts
July 23 2011 01:20 GMT
#26
I'm having a lot of problems against speedling expand with this build.

Things I've tried:

Transition to a bling/roach timing push as soon as I see him pull off gas. I can't make the timing work though, and he has roaches and a better econ when I hit. I want to say that he'll have roaches out before I can hit any bling timing, but more experimentation is needed.

Continuing with the build just seems to cause me to fall behind on econ. It's fairly fragile until +1 is out unless I want to produce a lot of roaches, but timing pushes are hard due to the constant threat of ling backstabs. Basically it's really hard to keep tab on how many lings he's producing especially on maps where it's not easy to have an overlord check saturation at his natural.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech129
SortOf 78
FoxeR 69
Nina 1
StarCraft: Brood War
GoRush 65
Shuttle 57
Bale 29
Icarus 10
Dota 2
XaKoH 438
NeuroSwarm133
League of Legends
JimRising 751
C9.Mang0446
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor83
Other Games
WinterStarcraft556
KnowMe354
Mew2King317
RuFF_SC279
minikerr21
febbydoto13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1141
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH62
• practicex 36
• Sammyuel 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1354
• Rush1174
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 44m
HomeStory Cup
1d 5h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-27
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.