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On May 25 2011 22:19 Blamajama wrote:
As a terran who employs a similar build, I'd say the best way to counter this pre-hive tech is to go pure ling/baneling against Thors, and muta harass for a heavy tank build. My push is always before the 12-15 minute mark as the zerg moves out to take his third and fourth. I know as soon as the zerg puts that third expansion down he is behind in units. My push comes right after that, and many times zerg doesn't even have enough energy for neural parasite if he goes infestor. Pure lings/banelings have given me issues. Balance your roach/baneling ratio and trade armies as many times possible. That's zergs only chance against terran mech.
i've often been theorycrafting whether or not PFs and tons of missile turrets in the mineral line can defeat muta/ling/baneling
assume all the minerals are dumped into extra OCs, and turrets...(using the engineering bay to upgrade only the armor and range of the buildings)
then get like 2 factories per base pumping out thors, tanks, and ghosts with scvs to back (upgrading the vehicle armor)
basically just emp consistently and run scvs away when banelings come...lings and mutas are no problem when the armor is so high.
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I played a large scale zvt yesterday. I had brood lords and he actually backed up his siege with ghosts. EMP + tank made my infestors entirely useless, vikings in the sky sniped broods 1 by 1. I'm just saying the things you guys mention do have counters if the terran are privy to it.
Also for those talking about expoiting mobility and use nydus. First of all it is not too likely that he won't see it since you need to send over an ovie. Killing a nydus is insanely easy, a few viking can prevent it from ever popping up. Second, even if you do get into his base, his army can decimate yours much faster than the other way around, and you lose the ability to reinforce which is more important for zerg than terran. To top it all if, if you use pure roaches, he will just float his buildings out. I've learned not to try base trades with terran because of this.
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I agree. I also need help with ZvHeavy mech terran with lotsa tanks thors and mmm....
Just wondering, since infestors get sieged tanked so bad, maybe use then mostly for infested terrans? If they can unburrow safely then sure, FG....
What about drops? Would they work well? Just send LOTS of Overlords and drop?
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As funny as it sounds, mass muta actually kills a terran going mech without a bit of marine support. In your replay you invested a lot into roaches and infestors so you wouldnt have enough gas to afford it, but whenever I see a terran investing so much of his factory time and ressources into siege tanks and thors without marines, I mass up as many mutas as possible and take greedy expansions.
The mutas will render all the siege tanks and hellions useless. Often times you will still need roaches to stop the hellions from just sprinting into your mineral lines.
Then tech to broodlords as you did. The problem with mech terrans is that your composition will vary greatly based on what mech unit he is most heavy on, obv mutas will suck against pure thor with BF hellions or any time marines are included.
As a meching terran (i love me my tanks in tvz lol), id definately have to disagree with this, if i see a pack of mutos that even approaches 30 or so, i basically reduce my tank count and increase my thor count, along with hellion count, becuase i know you dont have enough gas for mutos AND infestors(unless you get on like 5 base, but then you can just contiously trade with me and i'll lose eventually =P), and use the hellions for harass and for the brolords that i know are coming (thor+hellion is acually not terrible, but you will still definately need vikings). Once you get more than 10 thors, mutos just melt. Along with turrets like a boss, you cant even punish me when i move out.
To the OP though, as a TON of people above me have stated, you definately need to be active with your units. and try to pull the terran in every direction. if you want to, you can treat it like a protoss who is turtling on 2 base to get to their deathball.
How do you respond to that? nydus, drop, run bys, constant army trading, and quick bases. Now granted, run bys arnt quite as useful against mech, but can still be good in certain siutations.
All in all, just try to be a little more active and constantly trade and you'll eventually learn the subtle timings and game sense to start crushing mech ♥
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Also for those talking about expoiting mobility and use nydus. First of all it is not too likely that he won't see it since you need to send over an ovie. Killing a nydus is insanely easy, a few viking can prevent it from ever popping up. Second, even if you do get into his base, his army can decimate yours much faster than the other way around, and you lose the ability to reinforce which is more important for zerg than terran. To top it all if, if you use pure roaches, he will just float his buildings out. I've learned not to try base trades with terran because of this.
True, but we're saying (or at least I am saying) that only if you can, since even in the pro levels players are sometimes able to get Nydus Worms out.
Also, the point is not to fight his army in his base. He's not going to decimate your army because you're there to destroy buildings and harass and then retreat once his army gets back home. Floating buildings out is good for you.
The goal of that is not to trade bases, but make him go back home so you can secure more bases and/or drone and/or mass and basically give you another 1-22 minutes of time. If he decides not to defend, then it's an all-in for him -- quickly do some damage, and then return home in time to defend his mech push.
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EPT
