EPTYou're quite welcome. I am using Windows XP and mine is located at:
C:\Documents and Settings\Kaitlin\My Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\99999999\Hotkeys
Thank you so much :D shoulda thought of that.
Bravotango's "Base J" Customized Hotkeys - Page 3
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Dakewlguy
United States3 Posts
You're quite welcome. I am using Windows XP and mine is located at: C:\Documents and Settings\Kaitlin\My Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\99999999\Hotkeys Thank you so much :D shoulda thought of that. | ||
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Xylarthen
United States137 Posts
Sure, I could use a Dvorak simplified keyboard to type rather than a traditional qwerty, but is the learning curve worth the outcome? Will using "Base J" influence anything else I do with my keyboard such as typing or playing another game? My point is, while it is a good idea, sound in principal, and might work for you, there seems to be far too much involved for the outcome. Although, this is a great contribution to the TL community, so thank you for your effort. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On May 08 2011 14:14 Xylarthen wrote: Quite original, but shouldn't it be taken into consideration that the ASDF "natural" or even the JKL: "lefty" setup are designed with the purpose of already adhering to the natural hand placement a person is used to with a keyboard? Sure, I could use a Dvorak simplified keyboard to type rather than a traditional qwerty, but is the learning curve worth the outcome? Will using "Base J" influence anything else I do with my keyboard such as typing or playing another game? My point is, while it is a good idea, sound in principal, and might work for you, there seems to be far too much involved for the outcome. Although, this is a great contribution to the TL community, so thank you for your effort. Even though your fingers are on FGHJ, you can "believe" they are really on ASDF and do this system. I went back and put in parenthesis the ASDF keys for every unit, building, and spell. Let me pull an example from the opening of the OP: 1. Press E. 2. Press R. 3. Press F. 4. Press A. Congratulations, you've just begun your Weapons and Armor Upgrades at your double Forge. Want to Chronoboost those upgrades ? Try: 1. Press E. 2. Press E. 3. Press F. 4. Hold the Spacebar down and click your Forges, which are now in the middle of your screen. Even though your fingers are actually located on FGHJ, you believe they are on ASDF. So, when you type 'ERFA', you are actually typing 'YUJF', but that's ok. You're not looking at your keyboard trying to figure out where the YUJF keys are with your hand in this awkward location, you're simply typing 'ERFA', which you have been able to do for years. That's how I suggest going through this. Use the letters in parentheses to tell you what finger needs to hit which key. For the second part up there, to type 'EEF', your middle finger clicks the key that is above it twice, then your index finger hits its home key. That is the finger motion required to execute the chronoboost. Never mind that since your hand is adjusted, you're actually hitting 'YYJ'. Starcraft II processes a chronoboost. As far as you know, or care, you've only typed EEF. I doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. It's not going to affect how you type or anything else, certainly not any more than the craptastic hand positions the default layout forces us to use. Now, granted, it might make it difficult to write love letters to your opponent in any comprehensible way during a game, but that's not what we're here for. | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
btw, is this way of changing hotkeys allowed in online/lan tournaments. Considering changing hotkeys kinda like this way^^ | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On May 08 2011 14:54 Welmu wrote: wow! That Clandestine Scouting seems pretty broken method... I bet we'll start seeing much more proxies in future >_> btw, is this way of changing hotkeys allowed in online/lan tournaments. Considering changing hotkeys kinda like this way^^ I'm hoping to get a definitive answer on that as well. I know I'm not worried about it for myself, but it would be a deal breaker for anyone who had any aspirations in that direction. Well, the hotkey changes I'm sure would be allowed, the question is the "customization" of the keyboard and mouse inputs. | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
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Shurafa
United States79 Posts
This is copied from my original guide here :http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209178 + Show Spoiler + I really like the “Cartesian” hotkey setup (the Control Groups are both horizontal and vertical like the X,Y planes on a graph.) I started experimenting with this during the PTR when Blizzard enabled custom hotkeys. I took a few months off soon afterwards however so I did not get to develop the layout much since then. I have been playing again and tweaked my hotkeys. They are still under development and thus are not set in stone. Though I must say I am very happy with them right now as I can already see a big improvement in my play. Why this setup is so strong?: With this type of hotkey setup you never have to move your finger more than few inches to reach any hotkey (the majority of the time it is less than one inch). At high levels of play this is crucial as it means you will be that much more efficient and save precious milliseconds during the course of a game. I could definitely see this type of hotkey setup becoming a standard at high levels of play. My Hotkeys: (I play Random) General Control Group Hotkeys: + Show Spoiler + ` for scouting (next to the 1 key). Later on becomes Control group 4. Mouse button 4,5 = Control groups 1 and 2 Caps Lock = Control group 3 Protoss Hotkeys: + Show Spoiler + Macro: 1,Q,A,Z (Nexus, Gatway, Stargate, Robo) Unit Production: 2, Worker Gateway: W,E,R, 2, 3 Zealot,Senty,Stalker, HT, DT Stargate: W,E,R Phoenix, Void Ray, Carrier Robo: W,E,R,2 Observer, Warp Prism, Immortal, Colossus Unit Control Groups: Mouse 4, Mouse 5, Caps Lock, `, F, G Unit Control: Attack = Space Bar, Hold Position = S, Patrol = D Idle Workers: Alt+Space Bar Camera Positions F1-F5 Spells/Abilities: Typically W,E,R Load/Unload: X,C Terran Hotkeys: + Show Spoiler + Macro: 1,Q,A,Z (Command Center, Rax, Starport, Factory) Unit Production 2, Worker Barracks: W,E,R, 2, Marine, Marauder, Reaper, Ghost Starport: W,E,R,2,3 Banshee, Viking, Raven, Medivac, Battlecruiser Factory: W,E,R Hellion, Tank, Thor Unit Control Groups: Mouse 4, Mouse 5, Caps Lock, `, F, G Unit Control: Attack = Space Bar, Hold Position = S, Patrol = D Idle Workers: Alt+Space Bar Camera Positions F1-F5 Spells/Abilities: Typically W,E,R Load/Unload: X,C Repair: X Liftoff: V Zerg Hotkeys: + Show Spoiler + Macro: 1,Q,A,Z (Hatcheries, Queen1, Queens2, Queen3) Select Larvae 2 Unit Production 2, Worker 3,4,W,E,R,X,C,V Overload, Zergling, Roach, Hydra, Infestor, Muta, Corrupter, Ultralisk Unit Control Groups: Mouse 4, Mouse 5, Caps Lock, `, F, G Unit Control: Attack = Space Bar, Hold Position = S, Patrol = D Idle Workers: Alt+Space Bar Camera Positions F1-F5 Spread Creep X Spells/Abilities: Typically W,E,R Load/Unload: X,C Burrow/Unburrow: R Sample Macro Hotkey Usage: + Show Spoiler + Protoss: 1,2 builds Probe (selects Nexus, builds Probe) Q,W builds Zealot A,W builds Phoenix Z,W builds Observer Terran 1,2 Builds Probe (selects Command Center, Builds SCV) Q,W Builds Zealot A,W Builds Phoenix Z,W Builds Observer Zerg: 1,2,2 Builds Drone (selects hatchery, selects larvae, builds Drone) 1,2,3 Builds Overlord 1,2,4 Builds Lings A few key things to note. Using the spacebar to attack means that you can use your thumb to attack while manipulating your control groups with your fingers. This seems to flow really well and allows you to do more than one thing at once with your hand. Also centralizing most spells on a single hotkey (in my case W) is incredibly efficient. (For example banshee research and produce banshee both use the letter W). Blizzard has not implemented a method of changing the functionality of the Control and Shift keys. Therefore you MUST use these keys as the control group assignment modifiers. This is one of the main reasons I choose the layout I did as it allows for the closest proximity to the Control and Shift keys. Had this not been the case I may have taken a much different approach. I have also recently started using Mouse 4/5 (Forward and back button) as control groups 2/3 with great success! I find that it has great synergy with using your thumb to attack with spacebar and your finders to macro. A word of cation to people wanting to give this a try. This is not for the feint of heart. Learning a new set of hotkeys (especially one that is so drastically different than the norm) can take quite some time. However in the long run I believe it is well worth it. Think Tiger Woods changing his swing (He did this when he was already widely considered the greatest golfer in the sport) his consistency suffered in the short term however in the long term it made him a better player. The same is true in Starcraft. I would love to hear from others who have revamped their Hotkeys to non standard control groups. How has this worked out for you in the long run? Do you feel as though it has made you more efficient? My Hotkey File as of 041111: If you want to use it as a template. 1. Copy and paste the spoiler text into notepad/textedit. 2. Save it as Hotkeyname.SC2Hotkeys. 3. Place it in your Hotkeys directory of Starcraft. (Search your documents folder for this) + Show Spoiler + [Settings] AllowSetConflicts=1 [Hotkeys] Sound=Control+Shift+Alt+M PTT=Control+Shift+Alt+Grave ChatDefault=Enter MenuAchievements=Alt+F9 StatPanelArmySupply=Control+Alt+I AlertRecall=O CameraCenter=Control+Equals CameraFollow=Control+Shift+Alt+BracketOpen ControlGroupAppend0=Shift+Z ControlGroupAppend1=Shift+Grave ControlGroupAppend2=Shift+BackMouseButton ControlGroupAppend3=Shift+ForwardMouseButton ControlGroupAppend4=Shift+CapsLock ControlGroupAppend5=Shift+ForwardMouseButton ControlGroupAppend6=Shift+BackMouseButton ControlGroupAppend7=Shift+1 ControlGroupAppend8=Shift+Q ControlGroupAppend9=Shift+A ControlGroupAssign0=Control+Z ControlGroupAssign1=Control+Grave ControlGroupAssign2=Control+BackMouseButton ControlGroupAssign3=Control+ForwardMouseButton ControlGroupAssign4=Control+CapsLock ControlGroupAssign5=Control+F ControlGroupAssign6=Control+G ControlGroupAssign7=Control+1 ControlGroupAssign8=Control+Q ControlGroupAssign9=Control+A ControlGroupRecall0=Z ControlGroupRecall1=Grave ControlGroupRecall2=BackMouseButton ControlGroupRecall3=ForwardMouseButton ControlGroupRecall4=CapsLock ControlGroupRecall5=F ControlGroupRecall6=G ControlGroupRecall7=1 ControlGroupRecall8=Q ControlGroupRecall9=A IdleWorker=Alt+Space QuickSave=Control+Shift+Alt+Q StatusAll=Control+BackSlash StatusOwner=BracketClose StatusEnemy=Alt+SemiColon TeamResources=Alt+W TownCamera=Alt+Grave WarpIn=Alt+1,Alt+Q CameraSave0=Control+F1 CameraSave1=Control+F2 CameraSave2=Control+F3 CameraSave3=Control+F4 CameraSave4=Control+F5 CameraSave5=Control+F6 CameraSave6=Control+F7 CameraSave7=Control+F8 CameraView0=F1 CameraView1=F2 CameraView2=F3 CameraView3=F4 CameraView4=F5 CameraView5=F6 CameraView6=F7 CameraView7=F8 [Commands] 250mmStrikeCannons/Thor=W AWrp=R ArchonHallucination/Sentry=E Armory/SCV=X AssaultMode=E Assimilator/Probe=4 Attack=Space AutoTurret/Raven=W Baneling/Zergling=W BanelingNest/Drone=C Banshee/Starport=W Barracks/SCV=W Battlecruiser/Starport=3 Blink/Stalker=W BroodLord/Corruptor=E BuildCreepTumor/Queen=X BuildCreepTumorPropagate/CreepTumorBurrowed=X BuildPointDefenseDrone/Raven= Bunker/SCV=E BunkerLoad=X BunkerUnloadAll=C CalldownMULE/CommandCenter= CalldownMULE/OrbitalCommand=W Carrier/Stargate=R Charge/Zealot=W CloakOff=E CloakOnBanshee=W Colossus/RoboticsFacility=2 CommandCenter/SCV=2 CommandCenterLoad=X CommandCenterUnloadAll=C CorruptionAbility/Corruptor=W CyberneticsCore/Probe=X D8Charge/Reaper= DarkShrine/Probe=4 DarkTemplar=3 DefensiveMatrix= Domination/Nova=L Drone/Larva=2 EMP/Ghost=C EngineeringBay/BarracksTechLab= EngineeringBay/SCV=X EvolutionChamber/Drone=E EvolveAnabolicSynthesis2/UltraliskCavern= EvolveCentrificalHooks/BanelingNest=W EvolveChitinousPlating/UltraliskCavern=W EvolveGlialRegeneration/RoachWarren=W EvolveInfestorEnergyUpgrade/InfestationPit=W EvolveOrganicCarapace/RoachWarren= EvolveTunnelingClaws/RoachWarren=E EvolveVentralSacks=C ExperimentalPlasmaGun/Raynor=Comma Explode/Baneling=W Explode/BanelingBurrowed=C Extractor/Drone=4 Factory/SCV=W Feedback/HighTemplar=W FighterMode=W FleetBeacon/Probe=X ForceField/Sentry=W Forge/Probe=C FungalGrowth/Infestor=E Gateway/Probe=W GatherProt=C GenerateCreep/Overlord=E Ghost/Barracks=R GhostAcademy/SCV=2 GhostHoldFire/Ghost=T Goliath/Factory= GravitonBeam/Phoenix=W GravitonBeam/Urun=Comma GreaterSpire/Spire=R GuardianShield/Sentry=E Hallucination/Sentry=R Halt=V Hatchery/Drone=2 Heal/Medivac=R Hellion/Factory=W HighTemplar=2 HighTemplarHallucination/Sentry=W HireDevilDogs/MercCompound=L HireHelsAngels/MercCompound=BackSlash HireSiegeBreakers/MercCompound=Comma Hive/Lair=E Hydralisk/Larva=E HydraliskDen/Drone=2 Immortal/RoboticsFacility=R ImmortalHallucination/Sentry=5 InfestationPit/Drone=3 InfestedTerrans/Infestor=W InfestedTerrans/InfestorBurrowed=C Infestor/Larva=R Interceptor/Carrier=W Lair/Hatchery=E Land=V Larva=2 Lift=V Lower/SupplyDepot=X Marauder/Barracks=E Marine/Barracks=W MassRecall/Mothership=W Medic/Barracks= Medivac/Starport=2 MissileTurret/SCV=R MorphBackToGateway/WarpGate=C MorphMorphalisk/Queen=W MorphToOverseer/Overlord=W Mothership/Nexus=3 Move=BackSlash MoveHoldPosition=S MovePatrol=D Mutalisk/Larva=X NeuralParasite/Infestor=C Nexus/Probe=2 NukeArm/GhostAcademy=X NukeCalldown/Ghost=R NydusNetwork/Drone=E Observer/RoboticsFacility=W OrbitalCommand/CommandCenter=W Overlord/Larva=3 PhasingMode/WarpPrism=W Phoenix/Stargate=W PhoenixHallucination/Sentry=T PhotonCannon/Probe=E PlantC4Charge/Raynor=L PointDefenseDrone/Raven=E Probe/Nexus=2 ProbeHallucination/Sentry=2 ProtossAirArmorLevel1/CyberneticsCore=E ProtossAirWeaponsLevel1/CyberneticsCore=W ProtossBuild/Probe=W ProtossBuildAdvanced/Probe=E ProtossGroundArmorLevel1/Forge=E ProtossGroundWeaponsLevel1/Forge=W ProtossShieldsLevel1/Forge=R PsiStorm/HighTemplar=E Pylon/Probe=3 Queen=W Raise/SupplyDepotLowered=C Rally=8 RallyEgg=H Reaper/Barracks=2 ReaperSpeed/BarracksTechLab=T Refinery/SCV=4 Repair=X ResearchBansheeCloak/StarportTechLab=W ResearchBattlecruiserEnergyUpgrade/FusionCore=E ResearchBattlecruiserSpecializations/FusionCore=W ResearchCharge/TwilightCouncil=W ResearchDurableMaterials/StarportTechLab=3 ResearchExtendedThermalLance/RoboticsBay=R ResearchGhostEnergyUpgrade/GhostAcademy=E ResearchGraviticBooster/RoboticsBay=W ResearchGraviticDrive/RoboticsBay=E ResearchHallucination/CyberneticsCore=3 ResearchHiSecAutoTracking/EngineeringBay=X ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab=W ResearchHighTemplarEnergyUpgrade/TemplarArchive=E ResearchInterceptorLaunchSpeedUpgrade/FleetBeacon=E ResearchMedivacEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=2 ResearchNeosteelFrame/EngineeringBay=C ResearchPersonalCloaking/GhostAcademy=W ResearchPsiStorm/TemplarArchive=W ResearchPunisherGrenades/BarracksTechLab=R ResearchRavenEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=5 ResearchSeekerMissile/StarportTechLab=4 ResearchShieldWall/BarracksTechLab=W ResearchSiegeTech/FactoryTechLab=E ResearchStalkerTeleport/TwilightCouncil=E ResearchStrikeCannons/FactoryTechLab=R ResearchVoidRaySpeedUpgrade/FleetBeacon=W ResearchWarpGate/CyberneticsCore=2 ReturnCargo=T Roach/Larva=W RoachWarren/Drone=X RoboticsBay/Probe=C RoboticsFacility/Probe=W SCV=2 Salvage/Bunker=E SapStructure/Baneling=E Scan/OrbitalCommand=E Scourge/Larva= SelectBuilder=5 SensorTower/SCV=C SiegeMode=W SiegeTank/Factory=E Snipe/Ghost=X SpawnChangeling/Overseer=W SpawningPool/Drone=W SpectreHoldFire/Spectre=Comma SpectreWeaponsFree/Spectre=L SpineCrawler/Drone=V SpineCrawlerRoot/SpineCrawlerUprooted=E SpineCrawlerUproot/SpineCrawler=W Spire/Drone=W SporeCrawler/Drone=R SporeCrawlerRoot/SporeCrawlerUprooted=C SporeCrawlerUproot/SporeCrawler=X Stalker=R StalkerHallucination/Sentry=4 Stargate/Probe=E Starport/SCV=E Stim=W Stimpack/BarracksTechLab=E Stop=H StopGenerateCreep/Overlord=R SummonNydusWorm/NydusNetwork=W SupplyDepot/SCV=3 SupplyDrop/OrbitalCommand=R TemplarArchive/Probe=3 TerranBuild/SCV=W TerranBuildAdvanced/SCV=E TerranInfantryArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=E TerranInfantryWeaponsLevel1/EngineeringBay=W TerranShipPlatingLevel1/Armory=C TerranShipWeaponsLevel1/Armory=X TerranVehiclePlatingLevel1/Armory=E TerranVehicleWeaponsLevel1/Armory=W Thor/Factory=R TimeWarp/Nexus=W Transfusion/Queen=E TransportMode/WarpPrism=E TwilightCouncil/Probe=2 Ultralisk/Larva=V UltraliskCavern/Drone=X Unsiege=E UpgradeBuildingArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=2 UpgradeToPlanetaryFortress/CommandCenter=E UpgradeToWarpGate/Gateway=X VikingFighter/Starport=E VoidRay/Stargate=E VoidRayHallucination/Sentry=R VoodooShield/Tosh=Comma Vortex/Mothership=E WarpInScout/Stargate= WarpPrism/RoboticsFacility=E WarpPrismHallucination/Sentry=X WeaponsFree/Ghost=Y Wraith/Starport= YamatoGun=W Zealot=W ZealotHallucination/Sentry=3 ZergBuild/Drone=W ZergBuildAdvanced/Drone=E Zergling/Larva=4 hydraliskspeed/HydraliskDen=W overlordspeed=X zergflyerarmor1=E zergflyerattack1=W zerggroundarmor1/EvolutionChamber=R zerglingattackspeed/SpawningPool=E zerglingmovementspeed/SpawningPool=W zergmeleeweapons1/EvolutionChamber=W zergmissileweapons1/EvolutionChamber=E Point of note that any sort of program that changes your hotkeys outside of battlenet is NOT ALLOWED in LAN tournaments. So if you play in LAN you want to keep this in mind as only Blizzard hotkey sets are allowed. If you do not play in a LAN then using the mouse scroll, mouse 4/5 buttons and spacebar for Shift, Control, Alt, Attack and Control groups is incredibly strong! They also sell keyboards that have Macros built into them that allow you to do multiple commands with one hotkey. For example you can have a hotkey to select all hatcheries they select all larvae then spend all your money on a specific unit. I have a friend who plays zerg and his favorite style is Muta/Ling so he has three macros for Drones/Lings/Mutas. When he presses the macro it selects all hatcheries then all larvae and spends all his money on lings. This allows him to reinforce instantly! As for the J hotkey setup. It seems that one of the main objectives of this setup is to allow access to as many hotkeys as possible. Why do you need so many hotkeys? In general the game does not have that many options so extra hotkeys is not really an issue. The main issue I have is accessiblity to hotkeys. This is why I like using Spacebar, Mouse 4/5 and Capslock for hotkeys as they are very easy to use. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On May 09 2011 00:56 Shurafa wrote: Point of note that any sort of program that changes your hotkeys outside of battlenet is NOT ALLOWED in LAN tournaments. So if you play in LAN you want to keep this in mind as only Blizzard hotkey sets are allowed. Assuming this is the case, and I have no reason to believe it's not, then this answers one of my unknowns, and anyone with desires to play in such tournaments would not want to adopt my configuration. However, if you just want to roflstomp from the comfort of your own home... Of course, I'm not sure this conclusively answers whether it's ok in tournaments such as NASL, although the caliber of players in NASL likely fall into the category of being too hard-coded into what they have been using for so long already. On May 09 2011 00:56 Shurafa wrote: If you do not play in a LAN then using the mouse scroll, mouse 4/5 buttons and spacebar for Shift, Control, Alt, Attack and Control groups is incredibly strong! They also sell keyboards that have Macros built into them that allow you to do multiple commands with one hotkey. For example you can have a hotkey to select all hatcheries they select all larvae then spend all your money on a specific unit. I have a friend who plays zerg and his favorite style is Muta/Ling so he has three macros for Drones/Lings/Mutas. When he presses the macro it selects all hatcheries then all larvae and spends all his money on lings. This allows him to reinforce instantly! Unfortunately your friend's macros are against Blizzard's "One click = One action" policy and could result in account action. The keyboard I have also has these "macro" capabilities, but I don't use them because I don't want to risk the ban hammer. As for the J hotkey setup. It seems that one of the main objectives of this setup is to allow access to as many hotkeys as possible. Why do you need so many hotkeys? In general the game does not have that many options so extra hotkeys is not really an issue. The main issue I have is accessiblity to hotkeys. This is why I like using Spacebar, Mouse 4/5 and Capslock for hotkeys as they are very easy to use. Yeah, that is one of the objectives, but there are others, such as much less contortion of the hand for Ctrl, and Shift, and also making frequently used abilities like making pylons as easy as typing "FF" instead of "BE" all, while holding Shift with a non-dextrous finger, as opposed to holding Spacebar with the thumb. I think most people would prefer easy access to more hotkeys rather than less. It allows them better army control, better options in how they arrange their control groups, better spell casting, etc. I'm not suggesting people use all 10 control groups, just providing easy access, so they can make those decisions based on their gameplay style. It does make it easier to attack on different fronts, which will exploit an opponent who has less control groups in use. | ||
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Millicant
United States78 Posts
Pros: Easy Access to everything. No moving your hand around - just as advertised Generally smooth access to more than the first couple control groups. This makes it easy to access Nexus, production, and upgrade buildings, and then have easy access to 5 or so army control groups. Shift as spacebar. I love this. So convenient, falls under the first pro I guess. Cons: I don't like having all my production facilities on one group. I prefer that the warpgates and robo's are separate. This is partially because it now takes 3 clicks to produce from a robo or stargate where it used to take 2. Seems inconsequential, but it still throws me off a little. No typing. I can't communicate with my opponent, even if I want to. "glhf" and "gg" still work, but that's it. No spacebar, etc, makes typing impossible. This includes searching for custom games. I have to de-activate the script in order to make it possible to search for "+Macro +Die" for instance. This includes alt-tabbing out of SC2, as I frequently do, to change music, deal with skype, etc. This setup relies on the pinky to do some maneuvering for the "odd" stuff, like DT's or cannons (both on D and out of the way). I'd almost prefer that my index finger had that stretch, but it works okay. I tried to go back and play with my more or less "Standard" hotkeys and was surprised at how ungainly they felt. Despite the things that annoy me about this setup - I think I will be adopting it for more testing and personalization. The only other downside is that I feel it's quite race specific. I played random until a few weeks ago and still do for all team games. I'm going to have trouble with that. Overall - an excellent setup. I applaud you for the work and thought it took to create this, and thank you for sharing it with us. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:10 Millicant wrote: So I've been playing with this setup for a bit and here's some thoughts on it: Pros: Easy Access to everything. No moving your hand around - just as advertised Generally smooth access to more than the first couple control groups. This makes it easy to access Nexus, production, and upgrade buildings, and then have easy access to 5 or so army control groups. Shift as spacebar. I love this. So convenient, falls under the first pro I guess. Cons: I don't like having all my production facilities on one group. I prefer that the warpgates and robo's are separate. This is partially because it now takes 3 clicks to produce from a robo or stargate where it used to take 2. Seems inconsequential, but it still throws me off a little. No typing. I can't communicate with my opponent, even if I want to. "glhf" and "gg" still work, but that's it. No spacebar, etc, makes typing impossible. This includes searching for custom games. I have to de-activate the script in order to make it possible to search for "+Macro +Die" for instance. This includes alt-tabbing out of SC2, as I frequently do, to change music, deal with skype, etc. This setup relies on the pinky to do some maneuvering for the "odd" stuff, like DT's or cannons (both on D and out of the way). I'd almost prefer that my index finger had that stretch, but it works okay. I tried to go back and play with my more or less "Standard" hotkeys and was surprised at how ungainly they felt. Despite the things that annoy me about this setup - I think I will be adopting it for more testing and personalization. The only other downside is that I feel it's quite race specific. I played random until a few weeks ago and still do for all team games. I'm going to have trouble with that. Overall - an excellent setup. I applaud you for the work and thought it took to create this, and thank you for sharing it with us. Great feedback, thanks for the info. A lot of what you mention, I have gone back and forth on, but fortunately, they are easy modifications to make. I can probably offer a couple tips to point you in the right direction in making them work better for you. I have also experienced the lack of a spacebar when trying to type. However, since all I have to do with my (customizable) keyboard is hit Fn + 1 to the standard layout, it's not a problem. Using your script, I can see how it's a bit more cumbersome. I'm a little surprised you have trouble with Alt + Tab, as nothing in the setup really changes that, unless the nature of the script is such that if you change the right alt button, it also affects the left alt button. If that's the case, I guess I'd suggest making the Caps Lock key the Alt key, so at least you could Alt + Tab with Caps Lock + Tab. But you're a lot more familiar with that scripting than I am, I'm just throwing ideas out there. I think the decision of what to put on which control group is best left to each individual to decide, I just wanted to offer my thoughts and suggestions as far as why I put certain control groups where and why some I felt were better suited for spellcasting while others, not so much. I have found putting all my production facilities on one control group to work for me because it reduces the number of keys I "tap", but that's definitely personal preference. There is only the Nexus control group that I "really" emphasize should be on "Y", (E in ASDF), as the frequent actions of building probes and chronoboosting follow with fluidity from that position. I've even considered making my production facilities on "T" (W in ASDF) instead of mouse wheel back, and putting an army segment on the Mouse Wheel Back, just because I like to spam WEWEWEWEWE, which is of course TY in Base J position. About using the pinky for some of the "out of the way stuff", I completely agree. I made a judgment call that moving the pinky one slot to the left was preferable to other options, such as index finger moving 2 to the right, for 'L'. I think 'B' is also open, since it's in a build menu, it won't conflict with 'Hold Position". But those are very easy to adjust. Part of the reason for me using 'D', i think was because it was "D"ark Templar and a Photon Cannon, which is "D"etection. It was my memory device for learning them when I first set them up. Changing the actual control groups or the Move, Patrol, Stop, etc. commands would be more difficult, but which key activates a Photon Cannon or Dark Templar risks little conflict. The actual keys used to build and research things, such as J, F, and G are "fairly" arbitrary and can be easily re-arranged, amongst themselves. If making Stalkers is more intuitive for you with your ring finger (S) than your index finger (F), then that's perfectly ok. In my own personal play style, I seem to make Stalkers most, at least for now, so I put it on J (F in ASDF). I actually continued writing quite the book, but I'm going to cut it off here for now. I went into a bunch of detail of the evolution of the system, but I've had a couple drinks, and I'm tired, so I think I'll hold off before I put that out there. I may write up a little "tips" post to aid people in coming up with their own hotkey system, as I think I've learned quite a bit about what conflicts and what doesn't. There are some things you can do that are bit surprising, and there are some things you can't do, that seem to be pretty silly conflicts. I think it would be helpful for people to know. So, perhaps tomorrow. Again, thanks for taking the time and actually embracing the drastic changes. I feel like my execution has become much better since changing, and I hope it does for you too. Ideally, we can either improve the design or get high level input on the best way to control the army, given the additional control groups we have access to. | ||
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Millicant
United States78 Posts
It's very clear that you put a lot of thought into this! That's good and bad for me. I get to benefit from it, but I'm having trouble coming up with any way to improve it as you've thought of most everything already. I'm going to try switching the production facilities to "T" so I can do the "ytyt" tapping - I think that would be much easier for me. I've been putting my armies on "h" and "n" and haven't even been using the mouse scroll - I'm also going to try that more regularly. One thing I wondered about - why did you put move on "m" and not use that for another control group? I was parsing through the original post and the config again but couldn't figure it out. I thought of one other thing I wanted to get your input on: "U" as ctrl instead of "alt" as ctrl. Seems like using your thumb for the control functionality (My most common use is to select all of one kind of unit/building) would be more intuitive. What was the rational on that and how would swapping those affect this system? SCRIPT SECTION - new and improved! As far as the alt-tabbing, I fixed that. My script assigned the generic "alt" to be swapped whereas I re-assigned only the right alt. I fixed that now - good idea on using only the left alt. Furthermore - I've edited it even more to make it only active when SC2 is running, which will be nice. As for the typing problem - the script now allows for they key combo "ctrl & enter" to pull up the chat, suspend the script, and allow you to type normally in-game, with no modifications whatsoever to your keys. Then once you hit "enter" to send the message, it resumes the script and your hotkeys return. Furthermore, for typing in the menus and chat while NOT in game, I added another suspend: "Ctrl & Right arrow" which allows totally normal keyboard function until you hit CtrlRight again. Just tap it before/as the game starts and you're set. Tap it again afterwards to chat at the home screen. All of this is explained somewhat in the comments in the script. It's also disabled by default for login until you activate it for game. Note: I do not support Macro's in any way. They are banned by blizzard and for good reason. This script does not break the one keypress one action rule and merely allows a varied hotkey setup to be used. That being said I've done this with AutoHotkey, found at it's namesake .com. I've also compiled it to a standalone .exe for anybody who wants to try this setup out and doesn't have a customizable keyboard or mouse. I'll post it if there's any interest. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On May 10 2011 17:06 Millicant wrote: Awesome response thank you. It's very clear that you put a lot of thought into this! That's good and bad for me. I get to benefit from it, but I'm having trouble coming up with any way to improve it as you've thought of most everything already. Thanks. I've actually been sitting here playing around with a new version that's even more consolidated, but possibly more complicated. I was debating posting it here as the thread seems to have fallen by the wayside, which kinda surprises me, honestly. I can understand people who aspire to play in tournaments that don't allow customizations like this, but I think people don't realize what they're missing here lol. Anyways, I've been toying with doubling up on Y, T, and H by adding the ALT modifier, so, from those three keys, I have six control groups. Adding in the two for the mouse scroll, in each direction, then the Mouse Forward button on the side, then one more, which I've tentatively put on R for my observer, but I'm still tweaking it. It seems promising for making nice concaves and having several groups on the map in different areas. I'm just not sure if it's too "tight" I guess, as far as TYH being 3 control groups and adding Alt to each one making 3 more control groups lol. It sure does cut down on the number of keys you have to reach for though. I've eliminated even having to reach up for 7, and down for N and , with this new setup. My opponents watching our replays are gonna wonder how the hell I have all 10 control groups, 8 of them being army lol. Still working on it though. I'm going to try switching the production facilities to "T" so I can do the "ytyt" tapping - I think that would be much easier for me. I've been putting my armies on "h" and "n" and haven't even been using the mouse scroll - I'm also going to try that more regularly. One thing I wondered about - why did you put move on "m" and not use that for another control group? I was parsing through the original post and the config again but couldn't figure it out. Hmm. Move isn't on M. Patrol is M. Move is some key that we'll never use. I think it's \ . And the only reason it's bound at all is so everything in the control group setup screen isn't red lol. As for logic of why it's Patrol, and not a control group, it was just a preference, really. In my gameplay that I was taking into account when I set it up, I used patrol a lot. I tend to try to put my worker probe on patrol around my opponent's base for early scouting, until I get better. So, I wanted it to be an easy to access button. Also, I realized that some control groups needed not only immediate access ability, but the ability to cast important spells after (HTs). Some only needed to be accessed quickly to move them around ( thinking Colossus ), and others just needed "fairly easy" access, but nothing micro intensive, such as Observer. Spreading the "quality" of the real estate made it flow better, allowing good keys for non-control group stuff as well. I thought of one other thing I wanted to get your input on: "U" as ctrl instead of "alt" as ctrl. Seems like using your thumb for the control functionality (My most common use is to select all of one kind of unit/building) would be more intuitive. What was the rational on that and how would swapping those affect this system? My rationale was twofold. First, before I moved to the Base J position, I had been using the Spacebar for the "Backspace Functionality", and I had grown accustomed to using it to return to my base for whatever needs, and also to chrono probes from all my nexuses rapidly. When I slid my hand over and changed the Spacebar to Shift, I wanted to keep the same "mechanic" intact. The second comes, I guess, just because I've been trying to think of better layouts incessantly. I've tried control on my mouse, the middle mouse button, the side mouse button, and I tried it down where you suggest, because on the surface, it seems natural. The thumb is your modifier that you can basically hold down and your fingers do the rest. My right thumb is my Alt modifier, the left thumb is on spacebar, why not use that button for control. I see two drawbacks, one minor, the other not so much. The minor one is just that it's slightly more difficult to execute Ctrl + Shift when you are using your thumb for both. It's possible, and not very hard in fact, but not as simple and comfortable as Spacebar + R. I say R because that's how I think of it, I don't have to translate all the time for these weird finger positions. In ASDF, it's Spacebar + R, which is easy. The bigger drawback is this. Your thumb rests between the two keys, obviously, so it can hit either. What if you accidentally register a Ctrl, when you tried to Shift ? Like when you're Shift appending to your army as you warp in reinforcements during battle ? You're going to be frantically trying to macro as quickly as possible so you can return to your army and adding new units to the control group could turn into replacing your control group with the new units. If you accidentally mistype you just lost control of your army. As soon as I thought of that, I thought it was too likely a scenario to risk, even for it to happen once in a rare while. My own personal experience with Ctrl on 'U' has been surprisingly easy to adjust to, though. Don't forget, Ctrl is also set as the "Tab" functionality, so you'd be tabbing with your thumb, instead. If you swap, don't forget to find another place for the "Backspace" functionality, that is, if you use it. Keep in mind though, a frequent use of it will be for chronoboosting probes, which will be the sequence "YJ" + whatever you chose. SCRIPT SECTION - new and improved! As far as the alt-tabbing, I fixed that. My script assigned the generic "alt" to be swapped whereas I re-assigned only the right alt. I fixed that now - good idea on using only the left alt. Furthermore - I've edited it even more to make it only active when SC2 is running, which will be nice. As for the typing problem - the script now allows for they key combo "ctrl & enter" to pull up the chat, suspend the script, and allow you to type normally in-game, with no modifications whatsoever to your keys. Then once you hit "enter" to send the message, it resumes the script and your hotkeys return. Furthermore, for typing in the menus and chat while NOT in game, I added another suspend: "Ctrl & Right arrow" which allows totally normal keyboard function until you hit CtrlRight again. Just tap it before/as the game starts and you're set. Tap it again afterwards to chat at the home screen. All of this is explained somewhat in the comments in the script. It's also disabled by default for login until you activate it for game. Wow. Impressive. I settled for just typing GLHF (no space of course lol) and if they talk more during the game, I'd just msg them after explaining why I couldn't respond. Note: I do not support Macro's in any way. They are banned by blizzard and for good reason. This script does not break the one keypress one action rule and merely allows a varied hotkey setup to be used. I don't see anyway for Blizzard to have a problem with it. It's a very nice solution to a problem, indeed. That being said I've done this with AutoHotkey, found at it's namesake .com. I've also compiled it to a standalone .exe for anybody who wants to try this setup out and doesn't have a customizable keyboard or mouse. I'll post it if there's any interest. If you post it, I'll put it in the OP. | ||
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CrAzEdMiKe
Canada151 Posts
Errr... Well, ummm... How? With what? I'm ready to copy and paste, but I don't know what to paste it into. =P | ||
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Millicant
United States78 Posts
I wrote a little AutoHotKey script do switch around the keyboard keys. AutoHotKey (AHK) is basically a scripting program that allows you to edit inputs and outputs. It's quite powerful but I've used it in a very simple capacity in order to NOT break Blizzard's "1 key 1 action" rule. You can find out more about AHK by going to it's namesake + .com. It has a lot of non-SC2 related applications. Very cool program. So instead of requiring you to install AHK and copy/paste the script, I compiled it into an .exe that runs independently. Here's the list of Functions: Keybinds: + Show Spoiler + Space -> Shift u -> Control Right Alt -> Numpad 5 Wheel Down ->Numpad Mult Wheel Up -> Numpad Div Middle Mouse Button -> ' Mouse Side Button2 -> ; Mouse Side Button1 -> Alt These work with the posted hotkey setup by default Enabling/Disabling + Show Spoiler + Once you start the .exe, the script is DISABLED. Once SC2 is running, script is running, however hotkeys are still DISABLED. You can type in menus and chats with no problem. When you hit "Control + Right Arrow" the hotkeys are ENABLED. Begin gaming! When you hit "Control + Right Arrow" the hotkeys are DISABLED. It's a toggle, see? In-Game, when you hit "Control + Enter" the hokeys are DISABLED so you can type to your opponent. Then once you hit "Enter" to send the message the hotkeys are ENABLED. So whenever you want to type to your opponent in game, just hit "Control + Enter" instead of just "Enter." Hit "Enter" to send your message and go back to the game. If that doesn't make sense either reply or read the above messages too. I'll try to clear it up  Download + Show Spoiler + http://www.mediafire.com/file/05batbqv2e4d7yu/Base J Hotkeys.exe If anybody out there has AHK - you can decompile it to see the script and edit it as desired. Once again - thanks to OP for awesome hotkey setup. Still working out my own take on them. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On May 23 2011 04:03 Millicant wrote: Hey Mike, I wrote a little AutoHotKey script do switch around the keyboard keys. AutoHotKey (AHK) is basically a scripting program that allows you to edit inputs and outputs. It's quite powerful but I've used it in a very simple capacity in order to NOT break Blizzard's "1 key 1 action" rule. You can find out more about AHK by going to it's namesake + .com. It has a lot of non-SC2 related applications. Very cool program. So instead of requiring you to install AHK and copy/paste the script, I compiled it into an .exe that runs independently. Here's the list of Functions: Keybinds: + Show Spoiler + Space -> Shift u -> Control Right Alt -> Numpad 5 Wheel Down ->Numpad Mult Wheel Up -> Numpad Div Middle Mouse Button -> ' Mouse Side Button2 -> ; Mouse Side Button1 -> Alt These work with the posted hotkey setup by default Enabling/Disabling + Show Spoiler + Once you start the .exe, the script is DISABLED. Once SC2 is running, script is running, however hotkeys are still DISABLED. You can type in menus and chats with no problem. When you hit "Control + Right Arrow" the hotkeys are ENABLED. Begin gaming! When you hit "Control + Right Arrow" the hotkeys are DISABLED. It's a toggle, see? In-Game, when you hit "Control + Enter" the hokeys are DISABLED so you can type to your opponent. Then once you hit "Enter" to send the message the hotkeys are ENABLED. So whenever you want to type to your opponent in game, just hit "Control + Enter" instead of just "Enter." Hit "Enter" to send your message and go back to the game. If that doesn't make sense either reply or read the above messages too. I'll try to clear it up Download + Show Spoiler + http://www.mediafire.com/file/05batbqv2e4d7yu/Base%20%20J%20Hotkeys.exe If anybody out there has AHK - you can decompile it to see the script and edit it as desired. Once again - thanks to OP for awesome hotkey setup. Still working out my own take on them. Wow I don't know why but my antivirus system just freaked out when I downloaded your file and removed it immedietly, lol. Anyway good job for making it possible for the rest of us! | ||
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Millicant
United States78 Posts
On May 23 2011 05:02 eYeball wrote: Wow I don't know why but my antivirus system just freaked out when I downloaded your file and removed it immedietly, lol. Anyway good job for making it possible for the rest of us! Really!? Damn, I wonder why. Well here's the script text, not compiled. Use AHK and it will work that way. I promise you there's not a virus in the file. AV programs might not like it because it logs and alters in/outs. Not sure though - my AV (kaspersky) doesn't say anything about it. EDIT: I even tried re-downloading it to see if it would throw up any flags but I got nothing. If you're worried about viruses - download AHK, put the script below in a notepad file, and "Open with..." AHK. Exact same thing. Plus that way you can read exactly what it does. + Show Spoiler + Suspend, On ; Script is not running by default, to allow you to login and use menus normally until you're ready to play. #IfWinActive ahk_class StarCraft II ; None of this document matters unless you're playing SC2 ;----------------------------------------------------------------- ;This section is just the remappings to allow "Base J" style hotkeys space::Shift u::Control U::Control RAlt::Numpad5 WheelDown::NumpadMult WheelUp::NumpadDiv MButton::' XButton2::; XButton1::Alt ;----------------------------------------------------------------- ;This section allows for typing while in game by hitting Control + Enter. ;It will pull up the chat window and allow you to type normally; as if the above remappings don't exist ^Enter:: Suspend, On Send {Enter} Return ;----------------------------------------------------------------- ;This part will send your message in game and resume the "Base J" remappings above automatically Enter:: Suspend, Permit If s Suspend, Off Send {Enter} Return ;----------------------------------------------------------------- ;Once you are back in the Menu you hit Control + RightArrow. This disables all hotkeys and the keyboard functions normally ;This is intended for in the SC2 Menu and chat with friends/channels or searching for customs. ;Once you are set to play again hit Control + RightArrow and the keys are ready for play. ^Right:: Suspend If s S = 0 Else S = 1 Return ;----------------------------------------------------------------- #IfWinActive #NoEnv ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases. SendMode Input ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability. SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir% ; Ensures a consistent starting directory. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
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Blitztoad
United States8 Posts
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TheAmpersand
United States12 Posts
I'm curious as to whether utilizing more mouse buttons might make the learning curve less steep for myself. Do you feel like changing your layout has made it easier for your muscle memory to develop? During tense fights do you find yourself still trying to hunt for the right keys to press? The OP make me think of creating a hotkey setup where all necessary macro actions performed by the mouse buttons. Mouse hand would me by macro hand, and my keyboard hand would be my micro hand. I just got a Razer Naga, and I'm still trying to figure out how it would be best to take advantage of the extra mouse buttons. From searching through these forums it seems like its 'common knowledge' that it's better to stick with the standard layout and use the keyboard. Using mouse buttons are a 'gimmick'. I have my doubts until I try for myself. The whole idea of using the mouse wheel for tapping is brilliant IMHO. | ||
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Loophole
United States867 Posts
Changing hotkeys doesn't take as long as people think. I played BW for 10 years, and when I wanted to change my hotkeys for SC2, it only took a few games of playing against the computer and building everything I could think of to get my brain used to it. Mabye 10 - 20 ladder games later it was completely set it. I just played 1 game vs a comp and many of the more used key combinations are already set in my head, because they are pretty intuitive. I have one question about the setup, Kaitlin. The escape key isn't remapped. Sometimes I need it to cancel a structure. Can you think of anywhere it would work in this setup? | ||
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