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Hi Guys,
Since its nowadays cool to give your build a name, I name it the "crispy wormhole rush", lol. Type "gg by crispy wormhole" if you win.
I recently got an idea for an pretty cool ZvZ cheese, even though I really hate cheesing I think its kinda new, so I want to show it. I dont think I saw anyone doing something like that, if I'm wrong correct me.
You can either read this Thread or watch the video, where I pretty much explained everything. I'm usually a German instructional caster (top Masterleague), so don't mind my English accent.
Youtube
General + Show Spoiler +So what I'm basically doing is a normal 8 pool but I'm cutting any drones after I build the pool, that way you will have 300 minerals when the pool finishes and you can build a hatch to get creep outside of your opponents base and then build a spinecrawler there. After that you follow up with your usual zerglings and take 2 drones with you. So its basically the same timing as an usual 8 pool spinecrawler rush but now you have an already finished spinecrawler in his base.
You will certainly win the game against an hatch first opening or even a standard pool opening (13 - 15 pool). With an 14 pool it is defendable if you are really really good with your micro and you exactly know what to do, but since no one knows this build yet, most opponents wont react properly and will even loose with earlier pools. With an normal earlypool aggression you will always loose against a player who knows how to defend properly.
I only recommend to do this on XNC (Ladderpool) cause there the timings are working out just fine, on other maps its not that effective, but still better than an usual earlypool.
Step by Step: + Show Spoiler +- place your pool at 8. Don't produce anything now. - send your drone out at ~75 minerals - At 300 minerals build your hatchery, cancel, build spine, build 6 zerglings. + Show Spoiler +- Build 2 zerglings with your next larva. [supply blocked now] - Send out a second drone together with your zerglings - Send out the third drone some seconds later - uproot your finished spinecrawler and wait just outside the creep for the zerglings to arrive. Move in everything at once + Show Spoiler +- Build 2 spinecrawlers as soon as possible and replace the supply with zerglings - win
Note + Show Spoiler +If your opponents sees your first drone with an Overlord, you can maybe just scout his base for some seconds to not make him leery. Usually no one will expect anything like that, but if he for some reason scouts the corner its bad news for you. If you want to defend against it you just have to scout your base at the 2 minute mark once, so I hope I don't make a zergs live harder with that thread (at least if you read this thread) Here are 2 replays. I practiced that build with TMClMaxim (almost Grandmaster). We tried different things like being passive, build 1 spine, 2 spines, no spines, stay defensive etc.. After some tries he got better at defending it but I usually still win. Maybe you have an better idea how to defend it nicely. Anyways its much more effective than an normal earlypool.
Replay 1 Replay 2
Have fun and tell me about your experience. ;-)
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hmmm since this build means that you wont be building any more drones, why dont you just all in? because if your cheese fails, you only have like what, 4 drones? might as well all in man...(the 4 drones can give you a better success chance) anyway, ill make sure to scout for this in the future.
my build beats this anyway.
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You still have to mine to get enough minerals to build 2 more spines and 4 zerglings, after that you could also all in or build even more zerglings. I think just let them mine and replace dead zerglings is the better option.
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I've watched your first replay and it seems like a good idea to proxy your spinecrawler, but you lose about 100 minerals by canceling the hatchery and if it gets scouted it will invoke an earlier pool and zerglings, which will hardcounter the 8pool despite the proxy spinecrawler. This seems like a intersting build to employ in a BoX on a 4-player map though and when gone unscouted results in a defwin against anything later then say a 13/14pool.
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Although I miss Cheesing and I thought it was as much a part of the game as any other part of Starcrat 2, Blizzard didn't and they've shown that with 1.3.3 amongst other patches and the new maps of which bases are marathon distances apart, so I honestly think this wouldn't work on the newer maps.
Even if they went 14 Pool 14 Gas, still no. Unless they're on the close positions on the new Lost Temple (or old one for that matter) they would probably go Overpool and still fend off your rush and have an economic advantage to come with it.
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hmm, as a z who prefers to go hatch first i think that at most this will make my second overlord go scout my main hill first. is there a followup if it gets scouted or would it be good to proxy the natural instead?
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On May 02 2011 06:33 Angueo wrote: Although I miss Cheesing and I thought it was as much a part of the game as any other part of Starcrat 2, Blizzard didn't and they've shown that with 1.3.3 amongst other patches and the new maps of which bases are marathon distances apart, so I honestly think this wouldn't work on the newer maps.
Even if they went 14 Pool 14 Gas, still no. Unless they're on the close positions on the new Lost Temple (or old one for that matter) they would probably go Overpool and still fend off your rush and have an economic advantage to come with it.
Yes. As mentioned, on the current Ladderpool you can beat a 13/14/15 pool with that only on XNC, on all other maps you have to rely that your opponent goes for an hatch first or he does general mistakes, so I wouldnt do it on other maps.
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On May 02 2011 06:35 yadunz wrote: hmm, as a z who prefers to go hatch first i think that at most this will make my second overlord go scout my main hill first. is there a followup if it gets scouted or would it be good to proxy the natural instead?
I didnt thought much about an followup. Its pretty much allin. If it gets scouted you can still try an usuall 8 pool + 3 spinecrawler rush. In this case a good player with a 14 pool will defend it most likely.
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I thought this was going to be some retarded strategy, but this is indeed a dirty, dirty cheese.
If you can micro your drones better, I could something like this being hotfixed (that is, early creep on the hatch building if you instacancel)
just played a friend of mine with this in custom zvz (he is a high master on NA). He didn't want me uploading the rep, but I think this is easy to counter if you look for it, but definitely punishes sloppy play.
If you have good OL scouting you'll be able to see the drone come in to your base, and can just send a few drones to attack the spine when that happens.
However, as for positioning, since yo'ure making 2 more spines, you should try to semi-wall your hurt spine with the two building ones (use pool+hatch to help make a wall) then you can defend it with your lings.
This is a great cheese though and should easily work up to low-mid master.
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i like this strat. Although Most likley in patch > 1.3.3 they will fix the hatch cancel creep spread for this reason. So until then i`ll cheese my way through the top 8 diamond into hopefully masters
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So you're the bastard who made people do this to me on ladder.
ZvZ, I planned to go hatch first. Luckily it was air positions and I scouted an 8 pool. 13 pooled and I found his spine crawler. At first I was like "What the hell, he's hacking", but then I realized that he did the hatchery trick to get creep. I easily defended with drones and lings and he ragequit.
BUT ANYWAYS, why would you make people do this. This is so inefficient and a terrible cheese in general.
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haha cool build man but if your inbase hatch gets scouted it's gg'd. Not for me
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Hm interesting build, but what is your 3rd drone for? Do you build a 3rd crawler?
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Really liked this - im not into cheese, but you gotta admit it has its advantages mainly ladder climbing
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Don't want to break your build but... this is what I do against early spine rushes : with the surplus of minerals I build as many lings as poss (duh), runby your spines that are in my base, build an extractor in your base, and kill off your base. The lings you have out never beat my lings and all the drones I have. I dont need to engage your spines, ever, because the creep fades from my base in time, all I need is that extractor. Actually the surplus of minerals of a normal 14pool I have over your low amount of drones is often enough to just make another hatch. My base in yow base!
It probably works against people who try to fight off the spines, but really, the simple concept of runby is enough to beat this, so I wouldn't want to place a win / loss in the hands of that kind of cheese. Nice thinking outside of the box tho.
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On May 02 2011 21:05 []Phase[] wrote: Don't want to break your build but... this is what I do against early spine rushes : with the surplus of minerals I build as many lings as poss (duh), runby your spines that are in my base, build an extractor in your base, and kill off your base. The lings you have out never beat my lings and all the drones I have. I dont need to engage your spines, ever, because the creep fades from my base in time, all I need is that extractor. Actually the surplus of minerals of a normal 14pool I have over your low amount of drones is often enough to just make another hatch. My base in yow base!
It probably works against people who try to fight off the spines, but really, the simple concept of runby is enough to beat this, so I wouldn't want to place a win / loss in the hands of that kind of cheese. Nice thinking outside of the box tho.
this is a good silver-level counter.
Instead, you could just watch the mini-map and kill attack the spine crawler as its building. You won't know for sure it's there, but you will know there's a drone that came and never left.
Scouting absolutely crushes this, but it really really punishes sloppy play if it's well executed.
Personally I think it's a great cheese, and if you're going to rely on abandoning your base as your default counter, I think you ought to think again.
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