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Hey TL, I'll try to keep it short.
I'm a Zerg and whenever I play a Terran or a Protoss, I get really scared, there are so many potentially dangerous things which I need to watch out for 4/6Gate/Blueflame/Void Ray/Banshee (just to mention a few) all of these can potentially end the game if I'm not prepared for it without really setting back my opponent.
Not scouting or not being able to do so makes me feel like I'm on the verge of dying.
I want to know what the Zergs equivalent of that? When you're playing against Zerg, what are you scared of? Where do you get killed if you don't watch out?
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The way Zerg functions there's actually much less to be scared of. It's less being scared of an attack and being scared of a really scary economy that can pump out massive amounts of units. Zerg has to live in fear because of the drone mechanic. It's just how it works.
That and mutalisk harass, I guess. Or if you play like July and randomly kill them. But don't do that.
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Mutas. Always the damn mutas.
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I'm a bad Terran and I'm gold, I am always reluctant to take a third against zerg, I always feel that they have taken the whole map and are going to overwhelm me really fast, especially on the bigger maps.
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On April 01 2011 06:48 HRSA wrote:
The way Zerg functions there's actually much less to be scared of. It's less being scared of an attack and being scared of a really scary economy that can pump out massive amounts of units. Zerg has to live in fear because of the drone mechanic. It's just how it works.
That and mutalisk harass, I guess. Or if you play like July and randomly kill them. But don't do that.
Do that, or at least know how to do it. It's a real shame when you have a significant advantage over your opponent and you could go for the kill but you don't, since you're not yet on 4 bases/65 drones/200 army. And I know what I'm talking about, happens to me all the time.
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I'd have to go with Mutas as well. They give the zerg map control and make it a headache to take additional bases (beyond your natural).
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On April 01 2011 06:54 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 06:48 HRSA wrote:
The way Zerg functions there's actually much less to be scared of. It's less being scared of an attack and being scared of a really scary economy that can pump out massive amounts of units. Zerg has to live in fear because of the drone mechanic. It's just how it works.
That and mutalisk harass, I guess. Or if you play like July and randomly kill them. But don't do that. Do that, or at least know how to do it. It's a real shame when you have a significant advantage over your opponent and you could go for the kill but you don't, since you're not yet on 4 bases/65 drones/200 army. And I know what I'm talking about, happens to me all the time.
If that fails, you can't recover. That's why I say you shouldn't. Aggressive Zerg before you establish yourself is incredibly volatile, and if you lose that all in, you lose the game.
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watch july vs jinro in the gsl world champion team league. jinro was scared beyond belief.
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Something either tyler or incontrol have said on state of the game is that zerg doesn't really have a unit where they get it and then win, like if a bio ball isn't ready for your storm or you have a few collosi and your opponant doesn't have corruptors.
In terms of harassment, burrowed roaches are overlooked sometimes although their low speed can spell disaster in some situations. Mutas can deal an extremely large amount of damage to a mineral line that isn't protected properly, they are probably the "scariest" single unit zerg gets.
zerg is the most defensive race though, the really scary thing is when you let zerg do what they want for too long.
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defilers ultralisks and cracklings
not anymore.. feels bad , man
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As Protoss, I fear only about 3 or 4 things Zerg can do.
1). Produce a ton of roaches and stomp my crappy gateway (usually off 2 bases).
2). As soon as I leave my base, run 20 speedlings into my mineral line.
3). Timing attack with roach/hydra just before my colossi come out.
4). Suddenly produce a ton of mutas when I neither have blink nor Phoenixes.
Once these cease being a danger, I usually feel more confident and win.
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Runbys! Thanks Aequos. Those are really good for scariness.
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I agree with people talking about map control. With lings early game and mutas later I'm always scared to move out of my base with anything less than a full-force push against Zerg. It makes scouting and expanding diffcult.
I'm also scared of Zerg tech switches late game. First you make vikings for brolords and wipe their army, thinking you've won, but the zerg immediately remaxes with ultras and wins the game. If I get that late game vs Zerg, I've usually lost.
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Roaches - cost-effective, can deal with most ground-units.
Mutas - I better invest money into static defense or watch my mineral line getting obliterated, followed by some tech/construction building.
Everything else seems OK - not easy, mind you - but those 2 units...I'd rather not face them.
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The fact that a good Zerg can max out in under 14 minutes is enough to scare me
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On April 01 2011 06:56 HRSA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 06:54 Ahelvin wrote:On April 01 2011 06:48 HRSA wrote:
The way Zerg functions there's actually much less to be scared of. It's less being scared of an attack and being scared of a really scary economy that can pump out massive amounts of units. Zerg has to live in fear because of the drone mechanic. It's just how it works.
That and mutalisk harass, I guess. Or if you play like July and randomly kill them. But don't do that. Do that, or at least know how to do it. It's a real shame when you have a significant advantage over your opponent and you could go for the kill but you don't, since you're not yet on 4 bases/65 drones/200 army. And I know what I'm talking about, happens to me all the time. If that fails, you can't recover. That's why I say you shouldn't. Aggressive Zerg before you establish yourself is incredibly volatile, and if you lose that all in, you lose the game.
While it's quite true, it's not always true.
Let's say you are on two base, with quite some drones, and that a Toss 4-gate you (sounds familiar, right  ?). He fails. From that, if you go on heavy macro mode off three bases, the Toss can turtle hard and wait until he's maxed to come out. But if you actually know how to pump a scary wave of unit to do significant amounts of damage you'll do for sure since he has not much army left, you can end the game right now. And even you fail, well, you still have an expansion up and running whereas he hasn't.
It's situational, but it never hurts to KNOW how to attack when you have to IMO.
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I actually think, the thing that makes Zerg really scary are counterattacks. Thats also why Terrans hate mutas so much, they just can't leave their base and as long as they are in their base Zerg doesn't have to worry about them. Also I think as Zerg its worth it trading an expo with Terran/Protoss when countering. Basiclly my argument is that you are always one base ahead of your opponent. So if they are on 2 base and you are on 3 you have about 1.5 times the income (not counting mules, its always true for gas). If your opponents attacks you and kills one of your bases and you end up countering and kill one of his, its 1 base vs 2 base and you have 2 times the income.
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As Protoss; Speedling runbys, roach timing rushes, and mutalisks. Oh god the mutalisks.
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On April 01 2011 07:05 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 06:56 HRSA wrote:On April 01 2011 06:54 Ahelvin wrote:On April 01 2011 06:48 HRSA wrote:
The way Zerg functions there's actually much less to be scared of. It's less being scared of an attack and being scared of a really scary economy that can pump out massive amounts of units. Zerg has to live in fear because of the drone mechanic. It's just how it works.
That and mutalisk harass, I guess. Or if you play like July and randomly kill them. But don't do that. Do that, or at least know how to do it. It's a real shame when you have a significant advantage over your opponent and you could go for the kill but you don't, since you're not yet on 4 bases/65 drones/200 army. And I know what I'm talking about, happens to me all the time. If that fails, you can't recover. That's why I say you shouldn't. Aggressive Zerg before you establish yourself is incredibly volatile, and if you lose that all in, you lose the game. While it's quite true, it's not always true. Let's say you are on two base, with quite some drones, and that a Toss 4-gate you (sounds familiar, right ?). He fails. From that, if you go on heavy macro mode off three bases, the Toss can turtle hard and wait until he's maxed to come out. But if you actually know how to pump a scary wave of unit to do significant amounts of damage you'll do for sure since he has not much army left, you can end the game right now. And even you fail, well, you still have an expansion up and running whereas he hasn't. It's situational, but it never hurts to KNOW how to attack when you have to IMO.
In the case of a failed all in from the opponent, I'll agree with you. I misinterpreted what you said and thought you meant just at a strange interval to all in, which I feel is more like July does.
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- Map control. Zerg can get with lings and mutas to control the map. If i move out to attack or take a 3rd i fear seeing a bunch of lings counter into my natural and rape my mineral line.
- Creep. It sucks trying to stop the spread of creep and knowing the Zerg knows where your army is while on it, and fear being surrounded or flanked if you're caught out of position since Zerg is very fast on creep.
- Banelings. When you look away for 2 seconds and have no detection then look back and your 30 marines have just exploded into a pool of acid from burrowed blings its the worst feeling ever.
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I play a very passive style based off of making slow timing attacks and expanding behind them, and i often get steamrolled because zergs can just take the whole map and drone up while i just sit in my base (scouting is something i do poorly).
when I get to 3 base i feel really safe, or if i see more than a couple hydras.
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Many terran attacks can be stopped by queens and simcity dude. If you see blueflames,tech, banshees, vikings, anything make 4-5 queens off 2 base. The by product? So much creep spread and dominating any drops + air play.
What I hate facing are the Z who sling -> 2 base roach. Or a quick lair tech, 2 base roach dropper. Roaches in general are so dirty strong yet so few zergs use them well. If someone is doing banshee nonsense. just queen up, get to lair make a spire + a few mutas and heavy tech switch to dual evo roach sling infestor 2/3 base play.
Played a guy, tqdrone I think, who wrecked me BADLY with a 2 base roach defense -> roach drop on my main on taldar. Don't fall into sling bling muta if you don't have the control to. Mutas should NEVER be stagnant. Creep should be everywhere. You should have JUST enough units first two or so engagements.
A few things that always scare me.
Take an early 3rd. Mass queens (5-6 on 3 base). Dual evo roaches + infestors. Proper sling bling muta play where mutas get upgrades + a flock. Upgrades in general do so well for zerg. Proper flanking and creep spread make zerg too aggressive and you get put into a defensive mode. We all know you HAVE to be in the zergs face, or just be plain studly to beat many zergs.
Counter attacks, Sling run bys. Mutas that pick off any fucking thing. A zerg that takes a third and then 4th by the time I got a saturated 2nd.
random crap.
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Counter attacks & Mutalisks.
Basically any zerg that abuses their units mobility and terran's immobility defensively.
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Zerglings. Really. I have a deep paranoia regarding zerglings (me=P). And the reason is that they give map control, can counter attack and that if you have many of them you can so easily do runbys and attack expansions anywhere on the map. Warping stuff in is not enough most of the time, so yeah... I hate lings. And I am scared of Hydras and roach all ins. But it is jsut because my PvZ is horribad.
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'Toss chiming in here:
-Zerglings - be it some unexpected huge number early game, a mid game chunk denying my 3rd or a hidden nydus, I can not abide zerglings, I swear I've lost to zerglings more than than anything else in the game, and yet they continue to beat me.
-Roaches - massed up for some huge timing push, my forcefields tend not to be up to MC's level, plus they do insane damage and are hard to take out and are often quickly reinforced, I hate seeing 10 more roaches roll in as I';ve just barely survived a push.
-Broods - They're sticky to counter at best and it's really hard to survive the tech switch.
-Tech Switch - I know it's not a unit... but zerg can switch like no other, and it by far is the worst thing about playing a late game zerg.
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Muta harass and banelings would be at the top of my list.
Crazy econ, drops, and map vision via creep are certainly on there too but the other races have ways of doing more or less those same thing so I left them off.
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Queens and drones, man, queens and drones. Scariest shit in the world.
If your opponent is kind enough to play a gentleman's game and not interact with you beyond scouting for 12-14 minutes, you get the joy of smashing his face with a maxed army, 3-5 expansions, and 60-70 drones... meaning that your maxed army should stay maxed until he's good and dead.
This is why you'll often hear protoss referring to IncontroL's "Shark mode", where they do prods that aren't meant to do damage, but are meant to stop you from droning, and make units instead. Any protoss player should fear your drone count.
Zerg can also threaten all areas of the map at once. Nydus worms, dropverlords, mutalisks and speedlings are huuge mobility tools that absolutely can punish your opponent for trying to keep up with your economy. Protoss or Terran should HAVE to have every area of their base covered, pylons covering every shady corner, and at least one separate hitman squad hotkeyed, so as to avoid getting decoy dropped in their main with 6 roaches, sending their whole army and then having their front hit with a bunch of nomnoming insects.
We, as zerg players, should make our opponents feel like they're stuck in a horror movie with something always lurking wherever they're not looking. If we're not achieving that, I think we're doing it wrong.
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As protoss:
- Mutas
- Zergling runbys (probably worse than mutas in some cases) and lings in general. I find it hard to judge just how much supply a group of lings is worth and how much damage it will do to my army
- The sheer amount of map control a zerg is able to gain in the early/mid game
#1 scariest thing:
- A zerg who doesn't over-drone and actually gets aggressive off 2 bases (or 3) with roach/hydra balls, drops or even just ling harass. The efficiency of roach/hydra vs gateway units in a favourable engagement makes a midgame zerg very difficult to break for me.
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On April 01 2011 06:45 Grapefruit wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey TL, I'll try to keep it short.
I'm a Zerg and whenever I play a Terran or a Protoss, I get really scared, there are so many potentially dangerous things which I need to watch out for 4/6Gate/Blueflame/Void Ray/Banshee (just to mention a few) all of these can potentially end the game if I'm not prepared for it without really setting back my opponent.
Not scouting or not being able to do so makes me feel like I'm on the verge of dying. I want to know what the Zergs equivalent of that? When you're playing against Zerg, what are you scared of? Where do you get killed if you don't watch out?
Hey Grapefruit:
(1) Mutalisks. If you make them and the timing for a 5/6 gate rush has passed, I'm pretty boned.
(2) Mass expanding. If Z gets two bases ahead or is making mass drones
(3) Mass speedlings waiting to ambush/surround me when I take a Xel'Naga tower with my ball of sentries/stalkers. Early game P is so fragile that more than 3 lost sentries leans the "gg" meter decidedly in Zerg's favor.
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- Run-by
- Mutas
- 2 base push while I'm expanding (roaches + speedlings)
- Early aggression (mean 6 pool, baneling bust, roach + speedling)
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its scary for Z because you cant f** scout, and dont give me that overlord sac and ling poke bs, half of the people do some kind of 1base allin which you can easily hide from a Z because of the wall and a couple of marines / stalkers chilling around.
Scariest while playing against Z are obv muta's or, as artosis would say, SO MANY BANELINGS
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banelings!!!! i love being a zerg who burrows banes unexpectedly, or hides a big pack of lings behind where their army willl attack my choke so that when the banes start rolling forward, the lings can come from behind and just say "hold still you little bastards" to all the pretty marines and sentries :D
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On April 01 2011 06:50 flodeskum wrote:
Mutas. Always the damn mutas.
Rofl this.
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What makes zerg so bloody spooky? Tech switches and a monster of an economy.
For me as a terran, every move has to be planned just so since all of my units have specific roles:
Against a Toss: see what they are building, gather up a counter force and hammer it home. IE Spot early robo, expect collosus and go marauder viking with a smattering of marines and medivacs.
Against another terran: find out if there is a bio push coming, if there is get a bunker and a tank...if you since drop play, get towers...etc
Against a Zerg, this works too...once. After you "hammer it home" you find the nail was re-maxed into a screw...and it just screwed you.
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on 1 base -> upgraded speedlings
on 2 base -> mass roaches
after either of those, a hard techswitch to pure hydralisks.
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very interesting thread. Im looking forward to it !
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Mutas. Banelings.
Having to move across creep. Hate that.
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Midgame 2 base baneling busts can really punish terrans for macroing too hard, but that banks on the T not having too large of a tank force. If they do, baneling busts with overlord drop can really do damage.
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Mutas and burrowed banelings. Few things have as much potential and shock value (for lack of a better term) than burrowed banelings. And mutas just never die (not that they're hard to kill, but they're are just always more and more and more.
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Toss here.
1) Mutas. I absolutely hate 3 gate expanding and running into a wall of spine crawlers at my first poke, with mutas in my mineral line. I've lost so many games trying to all-in at this point since muta defense is so damn hard I choose to avoid it. Lings just destroy stalkers/sentry.
2) Random tech switches into mutas or out of mutas. I don't understand how but I've lost a ton of games where I spot roaches, yet end up finding a ball of mutas in my base. Or expecting to" Go Fucking Kill Him" with one big push and run into a wall of roach/hydra. Don't get it.
3) Early mass lings. I hate having to cancel or even lose my nexus simply because it gets fully surrounded by early lings, or I just my entire stalker/sentry ball because lings are so good and I run out of forcefields.
4) Early roach aggression. The ability for Z to pump out a game ending amount of roaches in the early mid game is ridiculous. A lot of it has to do with me getting used to macro Zs, but it still can be incredibly hard to know how many cannons to throw up to help my gateway army defend, and even then it may not be enough. As weird as it is I'm actually afraid of close positions on Shattered Temple for this very reason in PvZ.
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Mutalisks and to a slightly lesser extent, Banelings.
Because Mutas are just so mobile and the moment I move out I'm terrified that I'm going to get my bases attacked. Especially with the fact that creep gives vision.
And it might also be that I keep forgetting to get Thors and leave a couple aside from my army for defense. >.>;
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People have hit the main ones I think but I'll add my two cents.
Early game:
Zerglings in my expo mineral line wrecking stuff. The way I open vs zerg is using a bunch of hellions to do a soft contain on the zerg while I establish my expo and I cut a lot of units in favor of starting early tech. Basically, I play like a zerg does, only replace drones with upgrades. I get more unit producing structures than I can support, but only build out of them if I need to, favoring upgrades over units. Works just fine, unless 12 zerglings slip past my hellion contain and wreck my economy.
Mid game:
Banelings and creep. Burrowed banelings especially. 2 burrowed banelings can kill an entire push and a terran pushing out with only scans for detection on two base simply can't afford the expenditure to scan all the way to the zerg to kill tumors and landmines. Ya need a raven and ravens slow you down a lot. A lot of biomech timing pushes move out as stim is finishing and they don't even have a starport yet.
Also, while it's a bit risky, a bunch of banelings can just autokill a planetary fortress. Once I'm past my 3rd base, losing the 4th this way isn't a big deal, I'll just counter attack immediately while all zerg's banelings are dead, but that's not always an option when I've just established my 3rd.
Also, there's the mass expo fear. Combine it with good creep spread and you can convince yourself that zerg has expanded to every corner of the map. (Often, I find out they did, but they couldn't support it and it actually ends up working in my favor, but it takes me an extra 10-15 minutes just to hunt down all their bases)
A really well timed huge roach/ling attack/infestor(or not) attack right before I'm ready to move out. The ones that have hurt me a lot are when the zerg harasses with his first 6 mutas, sees my thors and immediately goes back to roach/ling/bling and just gets a whole crap ton of them and hurls them at my front door. Pro tip; if you see some thors with your mutas but only 1 factory, you can bet there aren't going to be any tanks for a while because thors and tanks take a long time to build. My particular build doesn't get siege tech until I'm just about to move out with a timing push while double expanding and making the tech switch back to Bio, so a timing attack just before I get that army made by a roach heavy army is quite the scary thing.
Late game:
Losing air superiority.
I dunno if zergs realize this, but often times I find they just give me air superiority without a fight. They do their little muta harras in the mid game and I get thors to kill the mutas and then their mutas die and they don't make any more and suddenly my medivacs can roam free. I get that mutas are no good in a standup fight, but terrans need that air superiority to do a lot of things that annoy the zerg. If we have to get a lot of vikings or thors to stop you then 1 of two things will happen.
1) We have to get thors which are SLOW. Holy god, you can see a thor based push coming for miles and just splash banelings all over them until they inevitably die.
2) We get so many vikings that the rest of our army is totally useless against your lings and banelings. Same problem zerg has with corrupters against protoss. Not quite as bad, they can be landed of course or be used to hunt overlords, but there's no cost effective number of vikings for killing corrupters or mutas, especially when you take FG into account. A late game techswitch back to mutas, maybe with increased carapace is extremely good and very scary.
And once you have air superiority, you can deploy the biggest late game fear, the mighty mighty broodlord. It's like a flying siege tank that shoots zerglings. Better than a gun that shoots chainsaw bullets.
Those are the things that scare the crap out of me as a Terran vs Zerg.
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Protoss and Terran wall of against Zerg. They *have* to. If yet don't they lose all their workers.
Midgame, Protoss and Terran never run dudes around the map unless it's a large and strong enogh group to not be surrounded and killed by zerglings. The slow "deathball" style of play Terran and Protoss do is less because their units are powerful and more because if they ran their army around the map haphazardly, zerglings run in and either kill their army or their workers.
The zergling is the most subconciously feared unit in the game. The existence of zerglings force Terran and Protoss to have the playstyle they have. No other unit affects the game state more with and without their presence.
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On April 01 2011 09:55 lorkac wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Protoss and Terran wall of against Zerg. They *have* to. If yet don't they lose all their workers.
Midgame, Protoss and Terran never run dudes around the map unless it's a large and strong enogh group to not be surrounded and killed by zerglings. The slow "deathball" style of play Terran and Protoss do is less because their units are powerful and more because if they ran their army around the map haphazardly, zerglings run in and either kill their army or their workers. The zergling is the most subconciously feared unit in the game. The existence of zerglings force Terran and Protoss to have the playstyle they have. No other unit affects the game state more with and without their presence.
Actually, this is so very true, though not quite what OP was asking, I think. Still, yeah, every P and T walls without exception, every move and every expansion is taken with the question "If 20 zerglings show up, is this still a good idea?" in mind.
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The sheer macro and tech switch shenanigans... economy provided
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i'm t. mutas, banes, and burrowed shenanigans
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1) Ling Runbys
ling runbys do such ridiculous damage that you should almost always try to do a counter attack when the opponent moves out
it's really hard to stop because they either have to warp in a lot of zealots at home (which can't catch up to the lings anyway or kill them fast enough) or spam canons all over which is, of course, inefficient
it's also really scary when you lose all your sentries to lings xD
2) creep
it's like maphacks! they walk out of their base and they're like, oh shit, they see me
3) baneling drops
omg, if you're rich or ahead put lots of banelings in overlords then just drop them all over their mineral line; almost instant gg unless if their army kills your base
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I am a terren, and i think that zerg is the scariest race for me to play agaisnt. 6-8 pools are a horrifying thought, balings make me want to rage quit and when i see a single brood lord i just leave.
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i play terran and toss on diamond and in terrans case mutas are scary Till i get some thors. but if i dont push fast enough and broodlords enter the playground then im scared i lost it. As toss im not scared for anythign except maybe a large large early roach push
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I'm hoping that HoTS will give zerg a unit (c'mon lurkers) that will keep people on their toes =D
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Muta harrass. having a tank push get obliterated by banelings wiping out marines because you were macroing.
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As protoss, i fear zerg's mobility which in turn makes me afraid of their harassment capabilities. Any time i move out and see speedlings rushing into my mineral line i freak out. I also am very fearful of muta harass because i never seem to have enough to take care of it.
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MAIN REASON? ZERG IS OVERPOWERED AND TOSS IS UNDERPOWERED. COMPLETELY TRUE FACT. (Just joking, but in all seriousness, I'm vouching for a well needed Protoss buff.)
1) Speedlings - They LOOK scary. When you have 18 zealots, the opponent can have an equivalent of 72 zerglings. If it wasn't for mechanics of hugging the wall AND surface area dps, IT'D BE FCKING SCARY.
2) Roaches - They are insanely strong. No, you don't get it ... they are insanely ridiculously strong. They have 145 hp, do insane amounts of damage, and cost a measly 75 minerals and 25 gas. When you have immortals, you're still like "Oh crap" because the opponent probably got 4 roaches for just the cost of one immortal. In fact, I go void rays just to make sure my zerg opponent doesn't rape me with tons of roaches. Not only do they rape gateway units, but they're so durable that you can't own until you have >2 collusus. That is pretty well into the game.
3) Mutas - If you don't kill them, they will build up into critical numbers. Phoenixes can only kite them, but cannot mass as much as they can. When your opponent goes mass mutas, you *MUST* get storms. Archon's splash would suck too much.
4) Broodlords and Ultras are the actual semi balanced unit for their cost. Yes they cost a lot, but it's the only zerg unit that deserves as much power for their cost. Every other zerg unit does way too much damage or have too much hp for their cost vs. Protoss unit.
The main thing is, in a straight up fight, Forcefield placement is what makes Protoss bearable. To be a straight up awesome Protoss player (where you cannot 4-gate [and sadly, I've never done 4-gates because I never learned to play with a 4-gate, and hence have been a macrotoss since day 1]), you cannot just Macro up. You *must* learn how to use forcefield, and this simple aspect of either make or break Protoss is what makes early game zerg so scary. =/
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The 'rawr' part.
Jokes aside, I think it's the dynamic production capability of it when played perfectly.
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On April 01 2011 10:36 ScythedBlade wrote:
(Just joking, but in all seriousness, I'm vouching for a well needed Protoss buff.)
Funny. You're funny.
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On April 01 2011 10:46 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 10:36 ScythedBlade wrote:
(Just joking, but in all seriousness, I'm vouching for a well needed Protoss buff.)
Funny. You're funny.
In all honesty though, I am NEVER fearful of a PvT or a PvP game. It's always like "well, that's expected" let's do something.
But with zerg denying scouting ability, insane map control, and the ability to be ridiculously overpowered on large maps (because if they try to take out a base, and the succeed, but in the process, your army kills off their army, your counterattack LITERALLY can be unsuccessful in ANY damage because of the zerg's ability to reproduce si damn quickly), zerg is pretty crazy.
But with Terran and Protoss, it's always like "Well, there's only this many possibilities they can do". With Zerg it's "HOLY CRAP, how am I going to be prepared for EVERY possible action they can do.
It's like an exponential decision tree everytime I'm playing against zerg opponents. That's pretty oped =(.
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On April 01 2011 06:50 flodeskum wrote:
Mutas. Always the damn mutas.
Totally this. Also, roaches when I'm outnumbered.
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The fact that we can mass a 200/200 roach hydra army in around 10-12 minutes if you don't try to beat or control our horrible early game mechanics (i.e crap larva). That's the only scary part, when a terran/toss knows he didn't do enough damage, it's 7-8 minutes in and your zerg's somewhere in that GSL macro map just beyond the fog of war, you JUST got your 2nd base up and fully saturated..
And then you see the creep slowly start to make its way to your natural.
That's when shit's pretty scary. though people have found a way around this by being ultra aggressive or using aggression early game to funnel zergs into a gas-heavy counter comp or something they can easily scout or intuitively guess to do, or just use zergs main early/midgame weakness. + Show Spoiler +It rhymes with Man Tie Bear
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You should read Mondragon's guide
![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/2dglufr.jpg)
And apply it to Terran too. It works wonders.
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Larva inject is particularly scary as players learn to abuse it in early to mid game.
Larva inject gives Zerg insane production capabilities without investing too much in production infrastructure.
Mass roaches or mass banelings off of 40 drones or so is sooo scary for Terrans.
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as terran blings as toss roach corrupter
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Muta Harrasment : Annoying
Critically massed, fully upgraded mutas : OOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCK
But the general idea of burrowed roaches, scare the fuck away from me.
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As a protoss, definitely roachs. Mutas, not so much, but oh the roaches. Especially if they start speedlings to prevent pressure.
The mass eco off 3-4 bases is probably the most terrifying of all, especially with Day9's 300 food push.
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eheheh this reminded me of one of MrBitter's VOD's where he was talking to TLO
TLO advocated for using drops, after you do those a couple times the protoss/terran will be scared shitless of attacking even if you just send a bunch of empty overlords hehe.
seriously, if you drop 8 roaches/hydras, kill a robotics bay and leave, it's pretty awesome.
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Mass lings.. like 50+ plus. Especially in PvZ before Colossi.. Toss really has to waste a crapload of FF to survive. Lings are cheap too so you don't really lose much.
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that early 20 speed roach army...is scary. As I learned earlier today, ultraling infestor is also very very scary. I didn't know infested terrans lasted 30(!) seconds.
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On April 01 2011 07:06 Uncultured wrote:
As Protoss; Speedling runbys, roach timing rushes, and mutalisks. Oh god the mutalisks.
This exactly. Mutalisks are demon spawn as far as I am concerned!!! Want me to stop fourgating?? Stop using Mutas, lol.
Seriously though, Mutas are very scary for toss to handle.
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Like... when 7 roaches comes knocking at my front door when i got just 3 gateway units and WG is 10 seconds from completion.
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For me? Roaches...I need to learn stuff besides mass gateway units
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I do Pheonix openings against zerg just so that I don't have to deal with muta harass. It's the scariest thing in the game to me.
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mutas run bys banelings w/o enough ff, and a shitload of corruptors, like 3 pre colossi.
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I'm always paranoid that they took 4 more bases than me and at disparate corners of the map.
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Fungal Growth, that shit scares the crap out of me these days.
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The fact that I my computer largs and doesn't let me micro vs. banelings.
Mutas
And the fact that they can max out at 13:00 when I can only max at 14:10
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What is scary is when a Zerg actually applies pressure and doesn't sit back and macro. An active opponent is so much more intimidating than someone that just sits and spams D
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On April 01 2011 07:27 Staboteur wrote:
Queens and drones, man, queens and drones. Scariest shit in the world.
If your opponent is kind enough to play a gentleman's game and not interact with you beyond scouting for 12-14 minutes, you get the joy of smashing his face with a maxed army, 3-5 expansions, and 60-70 drones... meaning that your maxed army should stay maxed until he's good and dead.
This is why you'll often hear protoss referring to IncontroL's "Shark mode", where they do prods that aren't meant to do damage, but are meant to stop you from droning, and make units instead. Any protoss player should fear your drone count.
Zerg can also threaten all areas of the map at once. Nydus worms, dropverlords, mutalisks and speedlings are huuge mobility tools that absolutely can punish your opponent for trying to keep up with your economy. Protoss or Terran should HAVE to have every area of their base covered, pylons covering every shady corner, and at least one separate hitman squad hotkeyed, so as to avoid getting decoy dropped in their main with 6 roaches, sending their whole army and then having their front hit with a bunch of nomnoming insects.
We, as zerg players, should make our opponents feel like they're stuck in a horror movie with something always lurking wherever they're not looking. If we're not achieving that, I think we're doing it wrong.
And this is exactly why I want to play Zerg. I'll be the first to admit that I'm simply not good enough :/
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Mutalisks.
I play terran, and it feels like I have absolutely no alternative but to mass marine because the zerg will almost always build mutalisks. And terran has nothing else that will stop mutas satisfactorily. Thors get magic boxed, and missile turrets are candy corn for a muta flock unless you way overmake them, which just lets the zerg macro. Vikings are a joke.
I don't want to make marines against zerg. Between banelings, infestors, and roaches, I want to make other bloody units. For alleged "weak harassment units" there are not a lot of options for units that actually defeat mutalisks heads up.
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Queens. They look scary. 
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July makes Zerg scary. I think if more Zergs decided to go kill mode the moment they sense weakness, more T and P players would be terrified of the swarm.
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Like others have stated, flock of mutalisk makes me really afraid to move out as protoss. As soon as they pop out, expanding get's really difficult and unless I have phoenix fleet left from early game harass, I can just start writing letters to papa and mama probes.
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Being a terran player (3200 masters last season for credentials) mutas and infestors. Mutas are scary because of how much control it gives the zerg. A flock of 25+ mutas are always scary about counter-attacks. Infestors can deal so mich damage so quickly now. Little miscontrol and your marines PLUMMET in health. Also creep spread is scary. If i see creep, that is where my push has to begin, once your on creep anything goes, the zerg has vision and mobility. Theres my 2 cents.
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Burrowed banlings. So deathly.
@ OP: What strategy you use isn't the all deciding factor. No stategy is perfect. It's also a mental thing. That may even be the bigger part of it. You may be scared of what your opponent can do, but that also works the other way around. Putting on some pressure every now and then can work wonders. It often doesn't really matter what unit comp you got when you dont need to kill your opponent just yet. Show some aggression, keep poking, do some damage, pull back.
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On April 01 2011 07:27 Staboteur wrote:
We, as zerg players, should make our opponents feel like they're stuck in a horror movie with something always lurking wherever they're not looking. If we're not achieving that, I think we're doing it wrong. Recently I tried to incorporate that into my strategy: Fear. The opponent should fear to leave his base, giving me the opportunity to get 3 bases running because with 6 gas I can have both tech as well as numerous units. Then the second part of my devious plan is set in motion: I waste some units to his defence forces. He should now think that he can actually survive staying 1-base because I suck. If everything goes how I want, he will counter-attack and his force will be surrounded by my lings with mutas dealing extra damage, so I have enough units left to go for the kill. Otherwise I have to keep scouting his base. He either will move out to expand, which I have to counter. If he gets his expo up, I must not let him keep that for long and decide if I attack his main or his expo. If he decides to tech to tier 3, I must be prepared either.
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Baneling Bust or Roach early roach timing, but both are pretty self defeating and not particularly strong.
Essentially nothing is scary other then infestors v Terran.
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Creep spread, mutas and baneling bust is always something to be afraid of as terran.
Mostly just the mutas though, makes taking a third fairly difficult.
New infestors are pretty scary too, although if zerg gets infestors instead of mutas then terran can take a third quite a bit easier.
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Poll: If you are matched against zerg, you say...NPNP ;D (7) 54% OH F*** (6) 46% 13 total votes Your vote: If you are matched against zerg, you say... (Vote): OH F***
(Vote): NPNP ;D
Poll: How scary is Zerg?1 (3) 38% 4 (3) 38% 5 (2) 25% 2 (0) 0% 3 (0) 0% 8 total votes Your vote: How scary is Zerg? (Vote): 1
(Vote): 2
(Vote): 3
(Vote): 4
(Vote): 5
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The scariest thing about zerg is, if played right, you never know when and how and from where they will attack you, could happen at any moment.
Overlords and creep spread give you excellent map vision, better than any other race, and allows you you to find weaknesses very easily.
Fast bulk production means you can build the ideal unit composition to exploit that weakness quickly.
Fast units, nydus and an army of dropships means you can get them units to where they will do most damage fast.
Cheap units means it is no big deal if not every attempt works out. Zerglings have the best DPS per cost in the game, and they are fast. It is very effective and efficient to attack with them where the opponent has no defenses and do a lot of damage quickly, and even to get out again.
Multipronged attacks. No other race does them as well.
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a good zerg should be feared for the following things:
Droning/outmacroing- if you don't attack a zerg and he gets a quick 60-70 drones, you are in a lot of trouble.
Mobility- zerglings and mutas can harass worker lines/new expos very easily and pull out, so positioning your army carefully is very important.
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Mutas and banelings can be scary, but the main thing that can be intimidating about zerg is their mobility, especially on creep. It's very easy to overextend in the midgame and get surrounded and crushed if you misjudge the size of the zerg army, for example.
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nothing makes zerg scary... sry... 3900 masters zerg here season 1
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Maybe not any one particular unit but rather the idea of suddenly being swarmed by Bling and Muta.
Watching the pro TvZ games, when its Marine-Tank vs Baneling-Zergling-Muta, the Terran has to move around very carefully and methodically. One mistake with positioning the tanks and suddenly this flood of Banes and Lings steamrolls him. I think its pretty tense from the Terran players perspective as soon as he leaves his base.
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banelings
2 banelings can clear a 2 min worth of marines
droning up
muta
but mostly ( at least bronze to plat ) ppl play only bane bust and roach rush, this is scary if im nt prepared
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those god damn mother fucking mutas. everytime i halluci scout im just praying to see a roach warren and an evo TT. my heart sinks if i see a spire =/
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The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass.
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On April 01 2011 22:27 cuoongwhomy wrote:
The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass.
Yep, muta harassment is a-moving, and actually being good with banelings vs. split marines or marauder/thor shields is a-moving.
Not saying that zerg has hard micro (micro isn't hard for any race), but saying they're all about the A-move is pretty stupid.
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Back when I used to play protoss (now I'm zerg :D) I loathed muta harras. As terran I didn't mind because 90% of the time zerg would turn away from 1 turret even though they had 20 mutas but cannons they didn't care about and would savage my mineral line. As toss I also felt there wasn't a good counter to mutas mid game besides cannons and I always placed my pylons around the edge and they would get sniped by the mutas eventually wearing me down and causing me to rage 
I've never found burrowed banelings to be a problem because I will scan to kill off creep and if there were any banelings I would spot them.
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On April 01 2011 22:27 cuoongwhomy wrote:
The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass.
This is rubbish. If you a-move banelings into thors and tanks instead of marines, you have 40+ marines to deal with, with medivacs and you have zerglings and mutas which are a joke against that mix. You need a seperate hotkey for ground army (lings, roach, ultras etc), banelings, mutas and possibly infestors. Terran you really only need marine/medivac hotkye and tanks, then protoss have the classic 1a deathball, although against terran and zerg you will need a hotkey for stalkers to blink and kill corruptors/vikings.
Saying one race only needs 1 hotkey for their army is ridiculous
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mutas.
ling runbies.
i feel like eating my shorts when every time they're in my bases.
i dislike the way toss works in sc2, and i'd take the zerg weaknesses in exchange for the macro ability, queens, and mobility, if i only could be arsed to switch, having played toss since 2000, and being too casual to learn another race
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Overlord drops worry me the most in Pvz and burrowed banelings in pvt. Drops just seem so underused with how easily zerg gets the means to drop and rarely do I see a overlord near my base and think that my mineral line is about to get destroyed.
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On April 01 2011 22:53 Swad1000 wrote:
Overlord drops worry me the most in Pvz and burrowed banelings in pvt. Drops just seem so underused with how easily zerg gets the means to drop and rarely do I see a overlord near my base and think that my mineral line is about to get destroyed.
Trust me, there is no need to worry about burrowed banes in PvT. :D
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On April 01 2011 22:33 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 22:27 cuoongwhomy wrote:
The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass. Yep, muta harassment is a-moving, and actually being good with banelings vs. split marines or marauder/thor shields is a-moving. Not saying that zerg has hard micro (micro isn't hard for any race), but saying they're all about the A-move is pretty stupid.
What a rubbish
obviously you dont' play zerg or you wouldn't be saying that
zergs have to micro banelings or you waste extra banelings for killing marines. On top of that, because of marine splitting, we have to split our baneling as well.
you a-move muta? seriously? this is one of the units that need micro as well. you don't just a-move into mineral or army. You have to micro them and pay attention to army movements or which unit to take out first. If you don't believe me, watch idra vs mvp and see how idra micro his mutas instead of a move and tell me after that mutas a-move
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While I agree with most of the ideas stated so far (runbys, muta harass, taking the map, etc) I think the truly scary element of Zerg is not just one unit, strategy, or timing attack. Instead, they have the unparalleled ability (especially in the late game) to tech switch instantly. Pro Zergs know how to abuse this, and it can be truly frightening. Most Zergs I play on ladder, however, don't. If you lose your roach/hydra mix, don't simply remake roach/hydra. Look at their army composition after the battle, and remax your army based on that. Protoss and Terran can't remake their tech units effectively to combat this.
Take the 300 food push for example. It's not scary only because of the sheer size of the army, but because they can remax on what they choose, while right after a big (even trade) battle, a Protoss/Terrran will pretty much only be able to have a large number of gateway/barracks units. This unique Zerg mechanic is far more scary than any single Zerg unit combination, and when used appropriately, can more than compensate for the fact that Zerg balls aren't nearly as scary as Protoss and Terran ones.
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Mutas, mutas, mutas!
Protoss player here. Mutas give me nightmares. Overlord drops give me panic attacks. Infsestors are starting to make me uneasy too.
If you're not prepared for it, anything in the Zerg arsenal will be scary. Also zerg's ability to tech switch with no investment in production facilities can be quite devastating.
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The ability to remax instantly.
Think about it.
Zerg engages you in the middle of the map. Good flanks, decent Infestor use, but it's a dead even trade. Both armies wiped out. Your on 6 Gate, 2 Robo, 2 Stargate. You're trying to rebuild your army.
Suddenly, Zerg shows up with a brand spanking new army of Roach, Hydra, Corruptor, or whatever the hell abomination he decided to throw at you. You've only had 2 warp in cycles.
Fear grips your heart. You're Chronoboosting your 6 gates, your Robo, you're praying that your Cannons can hold.
But it DOESN'T END. They keep coming. Your now mined out. You can't expand. You're afraid to move out of your base, but you can't survive on only 1 gas and 3 mineral patches. He's everywhere. He's attacking, harassing. Probes are dying. Your army is slowly dwindling to nothing.
Then the end comes in a tidal wave of Zerg. And you know that nothing could have stopped the flood.
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I play Protoss and i have nightmares about Baneling drops in my mineral lines. It requires so few to execute, yet so much to notice and react without loosing 20+ scvs its ridiculous, especially if they drop on 2+ places at the same time.
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Zerg is scary because they cannot really win or put pressure until mid game after you got 2-3 bases and must play defensively most of the time. The toss and terran can basically hit you whenever they like from 1 base on. Also Zerg is the only race that can’t really wall in and to keep up economically they must take a second base early making them vulnerable in general.
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On April 01 2011 23:37 dAko wrote:
I play Protoss and i have nightmares about Baneling drops in my mineral lines. It requires so few to execute, yet so much to notice and react without loosing 20+ scvs its ridiculous, especially if they drop on 2+ places at the same time.
Yea, its pretty similar to warping in 4 DTs and sending one to each of Zergs 4 bases
I think most people are afraid of baneling busts or early roach aggression vs Zerg. The other part is that people feel the need to kill Zerg early to reduce the huge macro advantage Zergs can get.
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When i play against Zerg i am scared of any Pool rushes...Baneling Busts...one Base Roach Pressure...or Mutas Ball.
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On April 01 2011 23:09 Imperium11 wrote:
While I agree with most of the ideas stated so far (runbys, muta harass, taking the map, etc) I think the truly scary element of Zerg is not just one unit, strategy, or timing attack. Instead, they have the unparalleled ability (especially in the late game) to tech switch instantly. Pro Zergs know how to abuse this, and it can be truly frightening. Most Zergs I play on ladder, however, don't. If you lose your roach/hydra mix, don't simply remake roach/hydra. Look at their army composition after the battle, and remax your army based on that. Protoss and Terran can't remake their tech units effectively to combat this.
After loosing my roach hydra mix I look deep into my soul and mind to determine the ideal units to make and mix and carefully formulate my plan and set it into motion and then make the only 2 viable late game anti-gateway units.
It's not always viable to make the other useful composition of infestor/broodlord when it's a gas heavy 50 & 74 train time composition and your opponent is pushing out across a map with a <60s rush distance. Baneling are good only as a bonus punch to your army, mutas aren't for combat, and ling/bling is a composition that relies on keeping army sizes low.
I think most people are afraid of baneling busts or early roach aggression vs Zerg. The other part is that people feel the need to kill Zerg early to reduce the huge macro advantage Zergs can get.
Most players now realize that if they can secure 3 bases and not die the macro advantage eventually goes away, if it was even there to begin with.
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On April 01 2011 23:00 DrunkApple wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 22:33 goiflin wrote:On April 01 2011 22:27 cuoongwhomy wrote:
The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass. Yep, muta harassment is a-moving, and actually being good with banelings vs. split marines or marauder/thor shields is a-moving. Not saying that zerg has hard micro (micro isn't hard for any race), but saying they're all about the A-move is pretty stupid. What a rubbish obviously you dont' play zerg or you wouldn't be saying that zergs have to micro banelings or you waste extra banelings for killing marines. On top of that, because of marine splitting, we have to split our baneling as well. you a-move muta? seriously? this is one of the units that need micro as well. you don't just a-move into mineral or army. You have to micro them and pay attention to army movements or which unit to take out first. If you don't believe me, watch idra vs mvp and see how idra micro his mutas instead of a move and tell me after that mutas a-move
Whoa dude, reread my post and the person I was quoting. I don't think zerg requires no micro.
The first sentence was sarcasm
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On April 01 2011 23:09 Imperium11 wrote:
While I agree with most of the ideas stated so far (runbys, muta harass, taking the map, etc) I think the truly scary element of Zerg is not just one unit, strategy, or timing attack. Instead, they have the unparalleled ability (especially in the late game) to tech switch instantly. Pro Zergs know how to abuse this, and it can be truly frightening. Most Zergs I play on ladder, however, don't. If you lose your roach/hydra mix, don't simply remake roach/hydra. Look at their army composition after the battle, and remax your army based on that. Protoss and Terran can't remake their tech units effectively to combat this.
Well... This doesn't scare me personally because of my preferred late game composition of marine/ marauder/medivac/viking/ with 1 factory of tanks or thors depending on what I'm fighting.
Marine Marauder is the go to core of the terran army and is able to deal equally with anything the zerg can throw at me. Tactics on the ground will determine how I use my army, if I will stim and run or press the attack, if I will position myself in a choke or in a concave and I'm pretty good at making that snap decision. Played tons of Rome Total war, I'm good at the tactics.
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I know several people who switched from Toss to Zerg solely because of mutas.
I switched to Terran because of roaches. And because of PvP but mainly oh my god the roaches.
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Couple things scare me: that huge ball of mutas flying into your base. everyone knows that situation
second one: noticing that zerg is 2 bases ahead and has very good saturation
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On April 02 2011 00:01 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 23:00 DrunkApple wrote:On April 01 2011 22:33 goiflin wrote:On April 01 2011 22:27 cuoongwhomy wrote:
The ability to A click attack move to pwn the other 2 races without micro. All you need is good macro to be a decent zerg. If you play toss, you have to learn to put down force field and guardian shield and defend against mutas harass. If you play terran; you have to learn to shoot and scoot micro, hellion micro, drop ship micro, and defend against muta harass. Yep, muta harassment is a-moving, and actually being good with banelings vs. split marines or marauder/thor shields is a-moving. Not saying that zerg has hard micro (micro isn't hard for any race), but saying they're all about the A-move is pretty stupid. What a rubbish obviously you dont' play zerg or you wouldn't be saying that zergs have to micro banelings or you waste extra banelings for killing marines. On top of that, because of marine splitting, we have to split our baneling as well. you a-move muta? seriously? this is one of the units that need micro as well. you don't just a-move into mineral or army. You have to micro them and pay attention to army movements or which unit to take out first. If you don't believe me, watch idra vs mvp and see how idra micro his mutas instead of a move and tell me after that mutas a-move Whoa dude, reread my post and the person I was quoting. I don't think zerg requires no micro. The first sentence was sarcasm
Sorry T.T I honestly suck at identifying sarcasm T.T
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As Terran,
1) Mutas
2) Banelings
3) I have 2 bases, you have 6
4) Infestor play
4) Moving out - There is no ability to retreat.
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On April 01 2011 06:59 Aequos wrote:
As Protoss, I fear only about 3 or 4 things Zerg can do.
1). Produce a ton of roaches and stomp my crappy gateway (usually off 2 bases).
2). As soon as I leave my base, run 20 speedlings into my mineral line.
3). Timing attack with roach/hydra just before my colossi come out.
4). Suddenly produce a ton of mutas when I neither have blink nor Phoenixes.
Once these cease being a danger, I usually feel more confident and win.
Pretty much all of this.
Also for example Muta's are easy to very deal with if you suspect them, but if you lack a decent amount of stalkers because your going mainly zealot immortal for example, you are screwed.
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Roaches and Speedlings. Roaches for their disgusting cost efficiency and Speedlings for having 30dps per 100 minerals and 4.7 movement speed.
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On April 01 2011 06:59 Aequos wrote:
As Protoss, I fear only about 3 or 4 things Zerg can do.
1). Produce a ton of roaches and stomp my crappy gateway (usually off 2 bases).
2). As soon as I leave my base, run 20 speedlings into my mineral line.
3). Timing attack with roach/hydra just before my colossi come out.
4). Suddenly produce a ton of mutas when I neither have blink nor Phoenixes.
Once these cease being a danger, I usually feel more confident and win.
All this, plus lategame broodlords baiting my stalkers into their ground army by attacking me from unparalleled distances.
Oh, and 6pools...
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I'm always worried that the second I move out of my base like 20 lings will just run by my army and kill all my probes...  Thats my biggest fear. Oh, and muta harass, god I hate that stuff
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Might sound juvenile, but their ability to recover from harassment. I know if I'm successful after a harass, I have 50 seconds to do a push before it doesn't matter.
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Another toss vote for friggin' mutas. Almost as annoying as banshees.
Also: mass roaches, anything involving post-patch Fungal Growth, and swarms of zerglings at unexpected times.
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EPT
