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By: Spectrum.705
Introduction:
I am a 3600 Master Zerg, Not a pro-gamer by any means, but I feel like I'm at a higher skill level than most masters players who have the same point total as me. I have been playing SC since around 2002-2003 so I feel I have a very thorough understanding of the game and of all its different components. I am giving this information not to sound cocky or brag, but just to give some credentials on the research and experimentation I have done. This thread is going to carefully look at all the zerg weapons upgrades and show how important they are to incorporate into your game play, even more so than the other two races. I hope you guys find this thread enlightening and helps you to become a better gamer.
I recently started playing a very upgrade oriented style of zerg against all match ups and have had much success with it against every match up. By heavy upgrade style I mean in most scenarios having 3-3 upgrades on my unit of choice by the 13-14 minute mark, and then transition to hive tech units by the 17-18 minute mark, which I feel should be the driving motive in especially ZvT and ZvP. In my experimentation I conducted a few days ago, I analyzed weapon upgrades on every attacking zerg unit, and its subsequent effects on the units DPS.
Why are Zerg Upgrades So Important?
It is my belief that zerg weapon upgrades are extremely important, even more so than the other two races, for one main reason. Our most cost efficient and central early game unit is the zergling, a melee unit. Why does this matter? Well because as a melee unit zerglings are only effective if the get a surround on the enemy, thereby maximizing surface area. For example 6 zerglings can be attacking a Protoss Stalker at one time if they get a surround, so when you have these zerglings upgraded weapon attacks, the amount of DPS increase experienced by the zerglings is compounded more than the other two races who have practically no melee units (except zealot of course). It is also important to note that zergs to end game units, the broodlord and the ultralisk are also melee units, so investing is early weapon attacks not only benefits your early game units such as the zergling and baneling, but also you end game units the broodlord and the ultralisk.
Framework for this experiment:
Im going to break down each units level 1,2 & 3 attack upgrades and its subsequent effect on that units overall DPS. If I have time today I will also show how attack upgrades equivocates to additional units, with the base units of 10. This sounds a bit confusing but once you see how I will provide this information it is quiet easy to understand.
Skeleton for this experiment
Unit : Unit Weapon Speed (WPS)
Unit Inital Attack(IA):
Level One Upgrade: DPS
Leave Two Upgrade: DPS
Level 3 Upgrade: DPS
Brief Conclusion
Zergling
Zergling: WPS=0.7
IA: 5 DPS: 7.1
Lvl 1: 6 DPS: 8.6
Lvl 2: 7 DPS: 10
Lvl 3: 8 DPS: 13.5 (WPS=0.50 Due to Research)
As you can see from the stats, a upgraded 3-3 zergling along with the attack speed upgrade almost doubles the DPS than that of a non-upgraded zergling. Coupled with the fact that these upgrades zerglings only cost 25minerals/each. It easily makes this the most cost efficient unit in the game. Don't forget that zerglings also surround the enemy so, 6 zerglings that have a surround on a stalker deal almost 81 DPS!! It would take 11.4 non-upgraded zerglings to deal the same DPS. Something to ponder...
Baneling
Baneling: WPS=0.83
IA: 20 Normal DPS: 24
35 Light DPS: 42
Lvl 1 : 22 Normal DPS: 26.4
39 Light DPS: 46.8
Lvl 2: 24 Normal DPS: 28.8
43 Light DPS: 51.6
Lvl 3: 26 Normal DPS: 31.2
47 Light DPS: 56.4
Although the DPS regarding banelings doesn't really apply since these units are suicide units. I provided the DPS stats because it gives you an idea of the amount of DPS increae, from 42 vs Light (ie marines) to 56.4 vs Light. In reality though a 3-3 upgraded baneling does 47 damage, so 10 banelings would do 470 damage. It would take 13.4 non upgraded banelings to do the same amount of damage. thats 75 gas you save for every 10 banelings you make. don't forget splash damage.
Roach
Roach: WPS=2
IA: 16 DPS: 8
Lvl 1: 18 DPS: 9
Lvl 2: 20 DPS: 10
Lvl 3: 22 DPS: 11
Very straightforward here, a 3-3 roach does 3DPS more damage than a non-upgraded roach. An interesting thing I noticed here though, and I have been playing around with ZvZ lately is a early 1-1 Zergling opening. Sure this will completely fail against a heavy baneling opening but, If you see a baneling nest on the inital scout just cancel your melee attack and switched to roaches with early 1-1 instead. If however the opponent goes early roach play, I found 1-1 zerglings are the way to go. they give you complete map control, allow you to expand and drone pretty freely, and wait for it, 1-1 zerglings actually have higher DPS than non-upgraded roaches, you just need to make sure you have enough zerglings before you engage and that you get a surround. The caraapace upgrade is extremely important in this opening because if the roach have 1+ attack and you dont have 1+ carapace you lose. 10 roaches do 110 DPS, It takes almost 14 non upgraded roaches to do the same amount of damage. In the more realistic case in ZvZ where one player has 1+ upgrades over his opponent, in the DPS sense it means that your 10 roaches with the additional 1+ upgrade are equivalent to almost 12 of your opponents roaches.
Hydralisk
Hydralisk WPS=0.83
IA: 12 DPS: 14.5
Lvl 1: 13 DPS: 15.6
Lvl 2: 14 DPS: 16.8
Lvl 3: 15 DPS: 18
10 3-3 Hydralisk deal 180 DPS, it takes 12.5 non upgraded to deal the same amount of damage.
Mutalisk
Mutalisk WPS= 1.52
At lvl 0, they do 9 + 3 + 1 (1st bounce, 2nd bounce, 3rd bounce) for 13: 8.552631 dps
lvl 1: 10 + 3 & 1/3 + 1 & 1/9 = 14 & 4/9 damage, 9.502924 dps
lvl 2: 11 + 3 & 2/3 + 1 & 2/9 = 15 & 8/9 damage, 10.453217 dps
lvl 3: 12 + 4 + 1 & 1/3 = 17 & 1/3 damage, 11.403509 dps
Corrupter
Corrupter WPS=1.9
IA: 20 Massive DPS: 10
14 Normal DPS: 7
Lvl 1: 22 Massive DPS:11
15 Normal DPS: 7.5
Lvl 2: 24 Massive DPS: 12
16 Normal DPS: 8
Lvl 3: 26 Massive DPS: 13
17 Normal: DPS 8.5
I did the DPS calculations with WPS round to 2 instead of 1.9, these stats coupled with the corruption spell make 3-3 corrupters very powerful against massive air units ie collusus. With corruption a 3-3 corrupter deals 15.6 DPS compared to 12 DPS of a non upgraded corrupter. 10 Corrupters with corruption used deal 156 DPS, it takes 13 0-0 corrupters to deal the same damage.
Ultralisk
Ultralisk WPS=0.86
IA: 15 Normal DPS:18
35 Armored DPS: 42
Lvl 1: 17 Normal DPS: 20.4
39 Armored DPS: 46.8
Lvl 2 : 19 Normal DPS: 23
43 Armored DPS: 51.6
Lvl 3: 21 Normal DPS: 31.2
47 Armored DPS: 56.4
3-3 Ultralisk are the highest DPS dealing unit the zerg has to offer. Coupled with the fact that this is a melee unit and get surrounds on the enemy makes it extremely powerful. 4 ultralisks can attack a thor at one time equaling 225 DPS!! One shot thor anyone..
Broodling
Broodling WPS=0.65
IA: 4 DPS: 6
Lvl 1: 5 DPS: 7.5
Lvl 2: 6 DPS: 9
Lvl 3: 7 DPS: 10.5
A 3-3 Upgraded broodlord is almost equivalent to having a 2-2 zergling in regards to DPS. Except that broodlords can theoretically produce an infinite amount, and for free as well.
Queen
Queen WPS=1
IA: Ground 4
Air 9
Lvl 1 G: 5
A: 10
Lvl 2: G: 6
A: 11
Lvl 3: G: 7
A: 12
Since queens have WPS=1, there attack is also there DPS.
Conclusion:
I hope you guys found this little thread to be informative and help you understand the power of upgrades, and zerg upgrades in general. Us zerg players should be incorporating zerg upgrades more quickly into our play because of the power of the melee unit. If I made any mistakes please let me know and ill try to correct them, but im pretty sure all my calculations are correct.
*Correction Made on Mutalisk Stats
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correction: the zergling attack speed upgrade increased WPS=0.58 not 0.50
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Ill provide high level replays later on showing how upgrades rule
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Good thread. I think one of the important things to point out for the ZVP matchup is that roaches scale much better than Protoss gateway units, so upgrades become incredibly important for the late game death ball.
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Didn't read the bragg at in the first section....
Read the rest was nice to know tah.
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On April 01 2011 10:19 TheRealzz wrote:
Didn't read the bragg at in the first section....
Read the rest was nice to know tah.
You did read it. come on.
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this supports what I have thought for a long time, that going roach/hydra in any matchup is a losing proposition in the long term. They scale so bad with increasing numbers, both in terms of supply efficiency and of upgrades. Alas in every matchup you can be forced to get them in the midgame, to survive against sentries or mech for example, which are the compositions that scale the best for your opponents. This is why zerg wins or loses in the midgame.
IMO if you go roach/hydra you should stop all your longterm plans after 2 or 3 bases (depending on the map), and go allin.
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Thank you.
I was exactly going to look for this kind of info.
I've been beaten so many times on ladder that I have decided to study some other aproaches, like getting carapace instead of attack upgrade
Edit.:
At first I was like "meh" because we deal with such low numbers "+1 dps" or "+2 dps".
But then I got to the Mutas (I always thought the +1 upgrade for mutas dealed a sick higher amount of damage) and then I realised it only added 10% (0.6) to their DPS.
This made me understand that the +20% (1.4) on the zerglings +1 is actually really great (except that they die really fast)
If only we now have an Carapace study =DD
//tx
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Cool post. Thanks. Us zergs need every edge we can get.
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Also@ dementrio: roach hydra is a cost efficiently unit composition especially against protoss gateway armies, but you are right as the game progresses you really need to add tier 3 units to help the transition. I wouldn't recommend just staying with one composition in any matchup for all too long- zergs greatest strength lies in their capacity to quickly change army compositions.
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On April 02 2011 00:31 Zintis wrote:
Also@ dementrio: roach hydra is a cost efficiently unit composition especially against protoss gateway armies, but you are right as the game progresses you really need to add tier 3 units to help the transition. I wouldn't recommend just staying with one composition in any matchup for all too long- zergs greatest strength lies in their capacity to quickly change army compositions.
"tier 3" does not work well with roach hydra. roach hydra cuts so much into your supply and gas that you can hardly afford any tier 3 unless you cut in turn your roach/hydra numbers so much that they become irrelevant. lings and banelings have a much better synergy, but you can't accomplish much with lings when you have an upgrade disadvantage, and it's hard to all of a sudden transition from ranged to melee. This is also accentuated by the fact that going roach hydra at any point means you also have to get upgrades like speed, range, etc - a ton of resources that become wasted when you transition out of it.
I sometimes open with early roaches in zvt/p, although my gameplan always revolves around mass ling/baneling; sometimes those roaches survive into later in the game and I can feel how much smaller my army is when something as little as 8 roaches takes supply away from other stuff. If you think about it, 8 roaches can't do anything from when the first tank or colossus comes out. 32 lings can run around and prevent expansions, kill a bunch of probes, snipe buildings. They can become 32 banelings when you need real firepower. They are much much stronger in the lategame.
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Glad you guys found this helpful, ill think about doing something like this for carapace when I have some time.
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On April 01 2011 06:13 PaladiN_23 wrote:
By: Spectrum.705
Why are Zerg Upgrades So Important?
It is my belief that zerg weapon upgrades are extremely important, even more so than the other two races, for one main reason. Our most cost efficient and central early game unit is the zergling, a melee unit. Why does this matter? Well because as a melee unit zerglings are only effective if the get a surround on the enemy, thereby maximizing surface area. For example 6 zerglings can be attacking a Protoss Stalker at one time if they get a surround, so when you have these zerglings upgraded weapon attacks, the amount of DPS increase experienced by the zerglings is compounded more than the other two races who have practically no melee units (except zealot of course).
Couldn't you equally well argue that armor upgrades are more important to zerg than attack upgrades, since they determine how many units actually survive the run up to a ranged unit? I'm not arguing that's the case, I just don't follow your reasoning.
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Melee units benefit less from attack upgrades than ranged units because more ranged units will be attacking at a given time. The reason zerglings benefit so much from attack upgrades is that their base attack is small compared to their upgrade bonus, so their damage increases by a larger percentage each time you upgrade them than for most other units.
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I agree in part, but I feel that carapace can be just as necessary. In the extreme example, if you have 40 lings with +3 attack and adrenal glands, they are going to wreck some marines if they get up to them, but if they marines stim and kill 20 of those lings before they even get into melee range, then you're going to much less likely to get that damage onto the marines, and your upgrades will have been for nothing.
Overall, I agree, lings, banelings, and ultras with +3 attack are awesome, but carapace is also pretty dang important.
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On April 02 2011 02:34 Saracen wrote:
Melee units benefit less from attack upgrades than ranged units because more ranged units will be attacking at a given time. The reason zerglings benefit so much from attack upgrades is that their base attack is small compared to their upgrade bonus, so their damage increases by a larger percentage each time you upgrade them than for most other units.
Makes sense, thanks.
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While I am nowhere near your level, I too love playing around in the unit tester and the difference upgrades make is amazing, especially noticeable with speedlings and mutalisks, which are units whose power grows exponentially in numbers and are, I think, our only units that can achieve a "critical mass" much like what protoss experience with Void Rays or Terrans with...well, you know, any unit in their arsenal bar the medivac.
I ran some numbers and with the right upgrade difference, speedlings can even be cost effective against colossi and siege tanks, as unnatural as that sounds. But being able to get closer to a tank and sustain a first hit is crucial.
Regarding your ZvZ example, I think it's worth noting that a +1 carapace gives your zerglings and drones a second chance against a baneling. Yes, a baneling that sneaked in your drone line will leave them with some 4-5 HP but that upgrade will keep you in the game instead of forcing you to insta-gg on a slip like that.
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On April 02 2011 02:34 Saracen wrote:
Melee units benefit less from attack upgrades than ranged units because more ranged units will be attacking at a given time. The reason zerglings benefit so much from attack upgrades is that their base attack is small compared to their upgrade bonus, so their damage increases by a larger percentage each time you upgrade them than for most other units.
While your point is correct, don't forget that another reason Zerglings benefit from it so much is their size: You can have many, many zerglings attacking a single Stalker, which effectively nullifies the point you raised. Once the enemies are clumped this comes into play again and gives ranged units the advantage.
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Also, if you combine all what's going on in a real battle, with roaches being fat and short-ranged, hydras not being viable without roach support, and forcefields, I don't think there are many scenarios where roaches would be hitting more than lings.
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With the mutas:
Mutalisk
Mutalisk WPS= 1.52
IA: 9 DPS: 6
Lvl 1 :10 DPS: 6.6
Lvl 2: 11 DPS: 7.2
Lvl 3: 12 DPS 8
Although 3-3 upgraded mutalisk only do 2 more DPS than non-upgraded mutalisk, you have to take into account the volley effect of a mutalisks attack. I think it something like each volley does 1/3 of the previous volley damage.
At lvl 0, they do 9 + 3 + 1 (1st bounce, 2nd bounce, 3rd bounce) for 13: 8.552631 dps
lvl 1: 10 + 3 & 1/3 + 1 & 1/9 = 14 & 4/9 damage, 9.502924 dps
lvl 2: 11 + 3 & 2/3 + 1 & 2/9 = 15 & 8/9 damage, 10.453217 dps
lvl 3: 12 + 4 + 1 & 1/3 = 17 & 1/3 damage, 11.403509 dps
Though note that against anything armored, their DPS drops drastically.
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EPT
