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I don't know if higher levels will agree with this suggestion, as the "real" solution is to program yourself to constantly cycle through your hotkeys, but even knowing what I'm supposed to do, I have difficulty actually implementing it. I saw a replay earlier and I literally had a "holy shit" moment.
Tip: Include your Warpgates in the control group with your main army.
This way, your Warpgates will be right in your face. I don't suggest hotkeying other production facilities to the group because rally points will get adjusted everytime you move your army, but this isn't a problem for warpgates.
I haven't had a chance to play since I saw this replay, but I wanted to put this tip out there and hope it's helpful. It seems like it's going to be for me.
edit: Actually, I'm going to check right now to see if they show up before or after the units in the "tab" list, as this would cause problems. Hopefully they show up at the end. Ok, I just checked, they appear at the end, which is what I thought I remembered from the replay.
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I've been doing that for awhile actually, and it works pretty well with one big exception: when you double tap the hotkey with both army & warpgates (intending to move the screen to your army) you will often move back to your base instead. I find this actually more frustrating than having to cycle through "w" every once in awhile.
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That would be a problem. LOL. Does it "always" put the camera on your warpgates ? Is it based on where your camera currently is ? Where the majority is, such as # warpgates vs. units ? I have always been confused about how the game determines where to focus the camera when you double click a control group that has units or even buildings in different locations. How does it determine where to go ?
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No not always. It seems fairly arbitrary really (which is part of the problem, its unpredicatble). The number of units doesnt matter, it happens to large armies as well as small ones. I don't really know the answer to the other questions, but i think some research should definitely be done into how the game determines the camera relocation. Maybe after understanding that this could become viable?
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I just bind warp gates to mousewheel down and the location where I warp in to mouse wheel up (location saved by Space bar)
its much easier now to warp in / cycle to check cooldown
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I can't understand how protoss can have difficulty with the warpgate cooldown. you have a LITTLE BUTTON on the corner of your screen who tell you when you wargate is ready. You just have to watch that and you'll be ok
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On March 28 2011 04:11 StoLiVe wrote:
I can't understand how protoss can have difficulty with the warpgate cooldown. you have a LITTLE BUTTON on the corner of your screen who tell you when you wargate is ready. You just have to watch that and you'll be ok
Uhm.......................
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OT: Just play more and you'll just feel the WG timings of when your cycles are up.
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I just press "W" during battles when there's no immediate need to micro or anything then just warp units in where i want them (if cooldown is up). Don't see anything too difficult with that.
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On March 28 2011 04:10 Teivospy wrote:
I just bind warp gates to mousewheel down and the location where I warp in to mouse wheel up (location saved by Space bar)
its much easier now to warp in / cycle to check cooldown This is beyond brilliant, have to try it.
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Yea, lets not use tricks to help you play better, instead lets just keep playing and not use tools that help us improve because the macro is easy, right?
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On March 28 2011 04:11 StoLiVe wrote:
I can't understand how protoss can have difficulty with the warpgate cooldown. you have a LITTLE BUTTON on the corner of your screen who tell you when you wargate is ready. You just have to watch that and you'll be ok
ahahaha. cough, little button, cough cough. There's a reason why pro's miss warp gate cool down, too. Dude, you must be like better than MC and all the master protoss here.
OT: I have all my warpgates on a hotkey because it feels more convenient (it's next to my nexus). So basically, I spam 1-2-3-4 and every time I see something not producing I can easily produce. The camera thing is annoying for the warp gates + army, but you can fix that by hotkeying the army first, and THEN the warp gates.
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you are much better off just checking the warpgate icon every chance you get, you don't even need a hotkey, it shows in the corner how many warpgates are ready
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how does the game determine the position of the screen when you double click on a control group ?
Screen_x = ( Unit1_x + Unit2_x + ..... + UnitN_x ) / N
Screen_y = ( Unit1_y + Unit2_y + ..... + UnitN_y ) / N
simple as that. ( easiest "center" position algorythm imo )
You may want to test it ( i'm not totally sure ) but it's what's seems to me.
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On March 28 2011 03:55 Imperium11 wrote:
I've been doing that for awhile actually, and it works pretty well with one big exception: when you double tap the hotkey with both army & warpgates (intending to move the screen to your army) you will often move back to your base instead. I find this actually more frustrating than having to cycle through "w" every once in awhile.
I've been hotkeying my warpgates with my army by accident a lot recently -.-' (must be my new keyboard) and yea it's annoying when you double click and it brings u to your warpgates... lol.
it's nice to see the cooldown, but i'd rather hit w to see it and just improve my macro / game sense. not worth accidentally bringing my camera to my warpgates when i desperately need to micro my army.
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Yeah, I just look at the icon. Plus you get a feel for it the more you play, anyway.
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On March 28 2011 04:10 Teivospy wrote:
I just bind warp gates to mousewheel down and the location where I warp in to mouse wheel up (location saved by Space bar)
its much easier now to warp in / cycle to check cooldown
how is it possible to bind mousewheel down/up onto hotkeys?
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On March 28 2011 05:19 Crappy wrote:
how does the game determine the position of the screen when you double click on a control group ?
Screen_x = ( Unit1_x + Unit2_x + ..... + UnitN_x ) / N
Screen_y = ( Unit1_y + Unit2_y + ..... + UnitN_y ) / N
simple as that. ( easiest "center" position algorythm imo )
You may want to test it ( i'm not totally sure ) but it's what's seems to me.
So if you have two units in a control group at opposite ends of the map, double tapping it causes your camera to jump between them?
No. It always centers on something.
Can't test this at the moment, but I would say that the order in which the units were added to the control group taking priority would make the most sense. The easiest way to test this (if anyone has a minute):
Make a zealot. Hotkey to 1. Then shift-1 a warpgate, make a few more units, shift-1 them. If my theory is right, double tapping 1 will always cause the camera to jump to the zealot.
Now, kill the zealot. Does the camera jump to the warpgate you bound?
Now, kill that warpgate, and the camera should go back to your army.
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On March 28 2011 05:22 wizzy09 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:10 Teivospy wrote:
I just bind warp gates to mousewheel down and the location where I warp in to mouse wheel up (location saved by Space bar)
its much easier now to warp in / cycle to check cooldown how is it possible to bind mousewheel down/up onto hotkeys?
You need a programmable mouse. There is nothing in the Hotkeys for that, but you can program your mouse to change "Mousewheel Scroll Up" to Numeric Keypad "/", for example, then in Starcraft, hotkey the Numeric Keypad "/" to whatever you want. Starcraft will see it as "/", but you are actually triggering it by your mousewheel.
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On March 28 2011 05:26 Reqq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:19 Crappy wrote:
how does the game determine the position of the screen when you double click on a control group ?
Screen_x = ( Unit1_x + Unit2_x + ..... + UnitN_x ) / N
Screen_y = ( Unit1_y + Unit2_y + ..... + UnitN_y ) / N
simple as that. ( easiest "center" position algorythm imo )
You may want to test it ( i'm not totally sure ) but it's what's seems to me. So if you have two units in a control group at opposite ends of the map, double tapping it causes your camera to jump between them? No. It always centers on something. Can't test this at the moment, but I would say that the order in which the units were added to the control group taking priority would make the most sense. The easiest way to test this (if anyone has a minute): Make a zealot. Hotkey to 1. Then shift-1 a warpgate, make a few more units, shift-1 them. If my theory is right, double tapping 1 will always cause the camera to jump to the zealot. Now, kill the zealot. Does the camera jump to the warpgate you bound? Now, kill that warpgate, and the camera should go back to your army.
I tried creating a control group by starting with my warpgates, then adding my army. I moved the camera to various places on the map and it always returned to my army ...  Figuring this one out would earn someone a very tasty cookie.
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Ok, so I just did some playing around against easy AI. It appears to check which part of a control group you have the most of and center on one of them. For example, I have 2 gateways and 3 stalkers, it centers on a stalker. Add two more gateways, and it centered on a gateway. Those weren't the actual numbers, but where the screen focused did change as I changed which unit or building there was the most of in my control group. I also changed the relative numbers of stalkers vs. sentries, and it did the same, focused on whichever there was more of.
There is some odd behavior here, though. My normal gameplay involves including my upgrade facilities (forge, twilight council, Robo Bay, etc) with my Nexuses. Even though Nexuses are listed first in the group, before forges, it was moving to a forge, when I doubletapped, no matter the relative quantity. I just tested this against easy AI, and built my second Nexus before the first forge, and now, doubletapping takes me to the Nexus. The starting Nexus. I then built a total of 3 forges to my 2 Nexuses, and it still took me to the first nexus. I then built 4 Nexus in another area of the map all next to each other, figuring doubletapping would take the camera to one of them. Nope, still to the first Nexus. Interesting behavior.
As for which of the units / buildings it centers on (within a like group) is still a mystery.
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I don't understand the point of doing this. The warpgates go to the back, so you'd have to tab through every unit type in your army to get to them and they'd be bumped off page 1 as soon as you have at least 24 combat units in the group. You can already see from the warpgate indicator when your warpgates are up, and it's much faster to hit 'w' than to tab to the warpgates in your army control group. This just seems like a way to reinforce bad habits of checking your warpgates whenever you remember to instead of just keeping an eye on the indicator so you know as soon as they're off of cooldown. IMHO you should learn to take advantage of the warpgate button - no matter where on the map you're looking, no matter what you have selected, no matter what you are doing, the number of idle warpgates is always right there in the same spot on the screen. Once you get used to keeping an eye on it, you just... always know how many warpgates are off cooldown. Am I missing some advantage this gives you that the warpgate indicator and 'w' hotkey don't do better, or do you just not like using the warpgate indicator?
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It's not that I don't like it, I just saw this as another idea, and threw it out there. The more I thought about it, I realized what you pointed out, about the warpgates dropping out of view as the army grows. It's still something to consider. If one doesn't like it, they shouldn't use it. If one thinks it can help them, or leads to some other idea, then great.
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I spend so much time in games removing my damn warpgates from control group 1! Its the most annoying thing ever!
I usually hotkey warped in units onto 1 immediately and often press shift too early, binding the warpgates onto 1 as well. Then I walk my army a short distance, go to macro, hit 11 to go back to my army and the screen shifts about 4 squares to the left onto my warpgates >.<
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On March 28 2011 04:10 Teivospy wrote:
I just bind warp gates to mousewheel down and the location where I warp in to mouse wheel up (location saved by Space bar)
its much easier now to warp in / cycle to check cooldown
... Wow, mind has just been blown...this sounds super awesome!
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On March 28 2011 05:03 iChau wrote:OT: I have all my warpgates on a hotkey because it feels more convenient (it's next to my nexus). So basically, I spam 1-2-3-4 and every time I see something not producing I can easily produce. The camera thing is annoying for the warp gates + army, but you can fix that by hotkeying the army first, and THEN the warp gates.
That's what I do as well, bind my gateways as I build them. Makes it easier to convert to WGs, too. However, I don't think adding the army first solves the problem. I've had numerous occasions where I'd have 20+ units and 4-6 WGs and it'd still take me to my base. In fact, recently I've found myself unbinding warpgates from the army hotkey just to avoid that, as it is especially annoying mid-battle.
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I bind the warpgates to my army by mistake all the time. I feel that overall its detrimental though since it centers the camera on your warpgates if you double tap your hotgroup. It does help you macro though I just cant get used to having to click to bounce back to my main army so it always screws me up.
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Add the warpgate counter to your "vision triangle".
It works for me. o.o
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EPT
