Pepe's PvZ 2 Gate Pressure Expand
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/SZdF77/e0e3b6be0e.jpg)
Dont they look evil?
Introduction
Hey guys, I'm Pepe, currently at >3700 points in master league at EU. I would like to share an opening I practised for a few weeks now with you. Opening 2Gate was pretty common against Zerg until Blizzard increased the Zealot buildtime by 5 seconds. I never saw it again so far. Some day, inspired by a 2Gate before Core 3 Zealot 2 Stalker build in PvP, I decided to try something similar in PvZ.
General idea
Zerg always have to decide if they either want to get units or workers, especially in the early game they want to get as many drones as possible. This build actually tries to pressure the Zerg permanently to force as many units as possible until you secured your 3rd base and can finally get the scary deathball. You want to get the maximum of units out of a minimum of production buildings. This is an economic opening, allin-ing is obviously no good idea after forcing units.
Being even or ahead in workers and bases is a reachable goal.
Build Order
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@9 - Pylon (scout)
@14 - Gate
@16 - Gate
@17 - Pylon
@19 - Zealot
@21 - Gas (you better dont forget to put guys in it)
@22 - Pylon
@23 - Zealot
@26 - Zealot
@28 - Core
@28 - Zealot
@33 - Zealot
@33 - Pylon
@34 - 2 Stalker(chronoboost both)
@38 - Warpgate(no chronoboost on it)
@38 - Forge
@39 - Pylon (its a risk and an advantage to put this one down the ramp)
@39 - Zealot
(continue Zealot/Stalker production like you want, you maybe want to get a 3rd Stalker when the first 2 finished, but its better to get a Zealot there to be able to instantly start +1 atk when your Forge finishes)
@ Forge finishing - instantly start +1 atk (you better dont forget it, chronoboost it)
@ 46-49 - Nexus
@ 150-300 Minerals - put down 2 well-placed canons at your natural
@ 200/100 - Robotics and 2nd and 3rd Gas
@ +1 atk finishing - get +1 def
When you feel the time has come better place a 3rd and 4th Gate instead of instantly tech more. You dont need your 4th Gas directly,you can choose on your own.
@14 - Gate
@16 - Gate
@17 - Pylon
@19 - Zealot
@21 - Gas (you better dont forget to put guys in it)
@22 - Pylon
@23 - Zealot
@26 - Zealot
@28 - Core
@28 - Zealot
@33 - Zealot
@33 - Pylon
@34 - 2 Stalker(chronoboost both)
@38 - Warpgate(no chronoboost on it)
@38 - Forge
@39 - Pylon (its a risk and an advantage to put this one down the ramp)
@39 - Zealot
(continue Zealot/Stalker production like you want, you maybe want to get a 3rd Stalker when the first 2 finished, but its better to get a Zealot there to be able to instantly start +1 atk when your Forge finishes)
@ Forge finishing - instantly start +1 atk (you better dont forget it, chronoboost it)
@ 46-49 - Nexus
@ 150-300 Minerals - put down 2 well-placed canons at your natural
@ 200/100 - Robotics and 2nd and 3rd Gas
@ +1 atk finishing - get +1 def
When you feel the time has come better place a 3rd and 4th Gate instead of instantly tech more. You dont need your 4th Gas directly,you can choose on your own.
Chronoboost
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You use your first 4 Chronoboosts on your Nexus when they are available,first of course at 11.
The next 2 are for your Stalkers, next are all for your +1 atk. You will maybe want to also put down your 5th Chronoboost on your Nexus and you will look like an idiot when your core finishes and you are > 65 Energy, but I figured out its much better to save one more for your +1 atk.
The next 2 are for your Stalkers, next are all for your +1 atk. You will maybe want to also put down your 5th Chronoboost on your Nexus and you will look like an idiot when your core finishes and you are > 65 Energy, but I figured out its much better to save one more for your +1 atk.
Your scouting Probe
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Its nothing spectacular, you scout if there is an early pool and of course you try to delay the Hatch. But you should not forget to get back in Zerg's base when your first Zealot is half done to take a look on how much Gas the Zerg took, if Speed started and if there's any Roach Warren / Baneling Nest. Later on you better get sure there really is a Hatch
Your first agression
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If Zerg was able to put down a Hatch first you can rally your Gates directly to your opponent's Natural but you better use your scouting Probe to check how many Lings pop out. If there are 4 or more you better let your first Zealot run back to the 2nd Zealot.
If your opponent plays pool first, you walk to him with 5 Zealots and 2 Stalkers soon done. You actually dont need to kill a single unit, everything you want is that your opponent builds units. In a perfect game you would retreat not losing a single unit. Dont forget to fight Speedlings only when your units are clumped together and next to a wall to not get surrounded completly.
When leaving your base place a Probe at your Choke to warp in a Pylon if the Zerg wants to run Lings in your base.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/3gOFj8/6cb504114a.jpg)
If your opponent plays pool first, you walk to him with 5 Zealots and 2 Stalkers soon done. You actually dont need to kill a single unit, everything you want is that your opponent builds units. In a perfect game you would retreat not losing a single unit. Dont forget to fight Speedlings only when your units are clumped together and next to a wall to not get surrounded completly.
When leaving your base place a Probe at your Choke to warp in a Pylon if the Zerg wants to run Lings in your base.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/3gOFj8/6cb504114a.jpg)
Everyone's gonna die. Too bad they dont fight at the wall.
Zerg responses when seeing 2 Gates
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- Some Zerg players just throw down a Roach Warren and 1 Base attack you with Ling/Roach. I actually never had problems holding it because the Stalkers are always in time.
- Most common reaction is to just build the expo and defend with a few Roaches. Since there isnt much creep you can annoy him a bit with your Stalkers, force a few more Lings and retreat.
Later, when your Robo finishes, you should get 1-2 Immortals when you know there are Roaches instead of an Observer. - Sometimes you face mass Speedlings, clump your units, try to retreat along Walls. If you lose your units, stay a bit more in your base and delay the Nexus until you feel able to move out.
- Seldomly Zerg will use a few Banelings to their Speedlings, try to kill them with your Stalkers and spread out your Zealots. You will lose them all :D but I hadnt much problems throwing down my Nexus when I faced this early Banelings so far.
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Not a response but if you scout an early Pool you should obviously improvise. 11 Pool before Overlord ( thats the one finishing when you start your 2nd Gate) is the first one you want to chronoboost your first Zealot.
More pressure
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From now on you have to decide on your own if you can pressure a bit or go back, it depends heavily on the game. Just clearing up the Watchtower can also make the Zerg build a few units.
Obviously there's a good timing when +1 atk finishes but it's really risky. Some Zerg's have nearly no units at that time, some didnt do anything else than building units. Normally Roaches won't have their Speedupgrade but its not impossible. You better hope they havent :D When you are finding many Roaches + Speedlings try to retreat. Kill the Lings when they come to near and run away from the Roaches.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/fZrq3A/adef8eb05b.png)
Obviously there's a good timing when +1 atk finishes but it's really risky. Some Zerg's have nearly no units at that time, some didnt do anything else than building units. Normally Roaches won't have their Speedupgrade but its not impossible. You better hope they havent :D When you are finding many Roaches + Speedlings try to retreat. Kill the Lings when they come to near and run away from the Roaches.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/fZrq3A/adef8eb05b.png)
You better regret going this far with your +1 atk timed push, at least you are ahead in workers
Zerg's 2 base Allins
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After playing this build really often I'm pretty sure you are safe to those allins without screwing anything up so far. Especially when you forced a ton of units without losing any at your first agression you can expect some 2 base Allin (mostly 20-24 drones).
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/shaARl/af480e453b.jpg)
Those Allins are mostly coming between 8:10 and 8:40 but if you have done everything corretly your 2 Canons should be up at 8:10 and when chronoboosted like I told you +1 atk should be finishing at ~8:15.
I faced it only 2 times so far, but Hydra / Speedling on 2 base(~30 worker) can be pretty scary. If you are going for Colossi the first could be half done. I'm not sure if you can hold it. If you have a Twilight Council up(explained later), you should go for mass Chargelots. They will rape Hydras.
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It's not an Allin but some Zerg are playing Mutas after getting their 3rd. If you arent seeing Roaches or only a few, you better get 1-2 canons in your main and Blink as early as possible. But I cant remember losing to Mutas even when I didnt expect it.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/shaARl/af480e453b.jpg)
Even with reinforcements you are not gonna lose a single probe
Those Allins are mostly coming between 8:10 and 8:40 but if you have done everything corretly your 2 Canons should be up at 8:10 and when chronoboosted like I told you +1 atk should be finishing at ~8:15.
I faced it only 2 times so far, but Hydra / Speedling on 2 base(~30 worker) can be pretty scary. If you are going for Colossi the first could be half done. I'm not sure if you can hold it. If you have a Twilight Council up(explained later), you should go for mass Chargelots. They will rape Hydras.
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It's not an Allin but some Zerg are playing Mutas after getting their 3rd. If you arent seeing Roaches or only a few, you better get 1-2 canons in your main and Blink as early as possible. But I cant remember losing to Mutas even when I didnt expect it.
Follow-Up's
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So far I only transitioned into either the classic Colossus / Voidray / Stalker Deathball or otherwise Immortal / High Templar. The advantage of the 2nd one is that you will be really fast at 3-1 and those Immortals destroy Roaches. You will always be ahead in Upgrades even with only 1 Forge. Mostly I start the TC close before +1 def is done.
No matter which of those 2 I chose so far, I started my 3rd base pretty early. Mostly when I got 2-3 Immortals and having the knowledge there's no Allin coming.
That I didnt try anything else doesnt mean there's no other way. Just transition into any Stargate play or just a mass Warpgate 2 basing is of course not impossible.
No matter which of those 2 I chose so far, I started my 3rd base pretty early. Mostly when I got 2-3 Immortals and having the knowledge there's no Allin coming.
That I didnt try anything else doesnt mean there's no other way. Just transition into any Stargate play or just a mass Warpgate 2 basing is of course not impossible.
Preferred Maps
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Maps should be small - medium sized and the Natural should be open and not far away from the main's choke. That choke should also point into Natural's direction. (You want to be able to get a useful wall to your Expansion but the Zerg shouldnt be able to defend with only 1-2 Spinecrawlers).
So obviously best is atm Xel Naga and Meta (not cross). Also ok are Blizzard's Typhon and Slag Pits. The 3 GSL maps may be too big. Unsure about Crossfire.
So obviously best is atm Xel Naga and Meta (not cross). Also ok are Blizzard's Typhon and Slag Pits. The 3 GSL maps may be too big. Unsure about Crossfire.
Issues
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- This build does not forgive mistakes. Forgeting to put guys in gas, forgeting to build a Pylon when you have the Minerals and so on will slow everything down. You are always near being supply blocked at the first minutes. Also slowing things down can make you unsafe against any 2 base Allin. Not throwing down a Pylon when Lings are running in or being macroing while your retreating units getting caught can and mostly will directly cost you the game. Feeling exactly the opposite what the opponent is doing ( pumping units / droning) will obviously cost you the game, too.
Don't expect great success in your first games trying this.Oh the noes, Pylon displaced. Fortunately that didnt happen with that push half way done - Your Sentry count is low because you dont get your Geysirs fast. I actually like the way I told but maybe you like a higher Sentry count. Try to get 2nd or 4th gas earlier.
Responses to forum posts
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DarKFoRcE
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As mentioned you are not gonna die to Roach Ling... you have your +1 atk what makes your Zealots rape their Lings, you got canons with great range and Stalker to kite Roaches afterwards. You continue with building Immortals. You should at least watch one of those replays and tell me what that guys did hardly wrong when trying to kill me.
Tossup
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If Zerg stops droning at ~18 and builds only Speedlings, who cares if he kills the initial push? your Zealots are gonna kill a ton of Lings when standing next to a wall. If he continues pumping Lings I'll just wait till +1, otherwise I got 3-4 more Zealots out and build a canon at the bottom of my ramp.
tentoff
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You're getting your first observer relatively fast, so I actually dont see a point in it.
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On March 21 2011 21:21 DarKFoRcE wrote:[/B
The main problem with the build is that you wont have many sentries do defend against roach ling allins and similar stuff
The main problem with the build is that you wont have many sentries do defend against roach ling allins and similar stuff
As mentioned you are not gonna die to Roach Ling... you have your +1 atk what makes your Zealots rape their Lings, you got canons with great range and Stalker to kite Roaches afterwards. You continue with building Immortals. You should at least watch one of those replays and tell me what that guys did hardly wrong when trying to kill me.
Tossup
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On March 21 2011 21:08 Tossup wrote:
I view the first initial to be kind of bad...
So you've pressured them a bit, and assuming they started ling speed they'll have it somewhere between making your zealots and stalkers. That being said, how do you can you count on a zerg letting you go home without killing off your initial push? Hugging walls can only do so much before they come in with ~20 lings and rape your army.
I view the first initial to be kind of bad...
So you've pressured them a bit, and assuming they started ling speed they'll have it somewhere between making your zealots and stalkers. That being said, how do you can you count on a zerg letting you go home without killing off your initial push? Hugging walls can only do so much before they come in with ~20 lings and rape your army.
If Zerg stops droning at ~18 and builds only Speedlings, who cares if he kills the initial push? your Zealots are gonna kill a ton of Lings when standing next to a wall. If he continues pumping Lings I'll just wait till +1, otherwise I got 3-4 more Zealots out and build a canon at the bottom of my ramp.
tentoff
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On March 22 2011 01:00 tentoff wrote:
May i suggest that you incorporate researching halucination into this build after warp gate research finishes. I find that a halucinated phoenix scout is very valuable, because if you scout a bunch of units, you can turtle up and not risk pushing out, but if you scout an early 3rd base or something, you know that the timing for your attack is perfect.
May i suggest that you incorporate researching halucination into this build after warp gate research finishes. I find that a halucinated phoenix scout is very valuable, because if you scout a bunch of units, you can turtle up and not risk pushing out, but if you scout an early 3rd base or something, you know that the timing for your attack is perfect.
You're getting your first observer relatively fast, so I actually dont see a point in it.
Replays
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Replays are numbered. Games are either Laddergames or Customgames with similar skilled opponents.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-3302202/Pepe-s-2-Gate.7z.html
Short descriptions:
#1 Pretty normal Ling / Roach beginning followed by some unexpected Mutas.
#2 Well defended 11 Pool. Went for counter-agression but was way too greedy.
#3 After pumping a ton of units my opponent decided to stop droning and try everything to end the game.
#4 Well defended first push but Zerg just screwing up later on.
#5 Perma losing your units to Speedling / Baneling doesnt always mean losing.
#6 A game couldnt go much better.
#7 Fast Speed Roaches followed by some suiciding on Nexus and basetrading.
#8 Mass Roaches / Baneling Bombs vs Immortals / High Templar.
#9 Pretty standard game, Ling / Roach / Hydra / Broodlord.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-3302202/Pepe-s-2-Gate.7z.html
Short descriptions:
#1 Pretty normal Ling / Roach beginning followed by some unexpected Mutas.
#2 Well defended 11 Pool. Went for counter-agression but was way too greedy.
#3 After pumping a ton of units my opponent decided to stop droning and try everything to end the game.
#4 Well defended first push but Zerg just screwing up later on.
#5 Perma losing your units to Speedling / Baneling doesnt always mean losing.
#6 A game couldnt go much better.
#7 Fast Speed Roaches followed by some suiciding on Nexus and basetrading.
#8 Mass Roaches / Baneling Bombs vs Immortals / High Templar.
#9 Pretty standard game, Ling / Roach / Hydra / Broodlord.
Feel free to comment / ask anything after reading the [b]whole guide.
Thanks to Lumbini for helping me practise this