EPTBasically do what a zerg player would do. This is a zerg build for Terrans except marines are better than lings in any way.
[G] StimmedProbe’s Million Man Marine TvP Style - Page 4
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
Basically do what a zerg player would do. This is a zerg build for Terrans except marines are better than lings in any way. | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
On March 12 2011 19:58 epoc wrote: Couldn't protoss just cannon up and tech to colossus and/or high templar? Generaly, 1 base tech protoss will loose to a FE terran. If you look carefuly, this build starts very similar to the standard 1 rax no gas FE, that means you can play it as a standard 1 rax FE if you have to, i.e. 1 base tech protoss. | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
If executed right it can easly kill 1 rax expo, no? | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Should win easily, thanks to forcefields trapping you against my melee zealots that take o so many hits. I have not tested this, since I do not face this kind of playstyle on the european ladder but I believe gateway units+upgrades and slow tech to colossi should be more than enough to deal with this. (Also, If terran decides to tech switch just wait a little for 2 or so colossi, he should be so far behind in tech you will just roflstomp him.) Again: Theory crafting here, but I think this is a simple way to kill mass Marines. Edit: Did not realize there were 2 videos. Your opponent in that tourney lost 4 sentries and never made any more... I think Sentrys really destroy this. (seeing as it was pretty close even without them.) He could have saved his colossus, wait for a second one with range -> gg | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:12 rEalGuapo wrote: I haven't seen a single guardian shield, wich would take out one third of your dps. combined with standart zealot 1 armor, you do 3 dmg per hit vs a zealot's health. you might realize that over 30 shots for a single unit isn't that great, so I reccomend going for mass gateway units (mainly zealots and sentrys) and mass upgrades against this style. Should win easily, thanks to forcefields trapping you against my melee zealots that take o so many hits. I have not tested this, since I do not face this kind of playstyle on the european ladder but I believe gateway units+upgrades and slow tech to colossi should be more than enough to deal with this. (Also, If terran decides to tech switch just wait a little for 2 or so colossi, he should be so far behind in tech you will just roflstomp him.) Again: Theory crafting here, but I think this is a simple way to kill mass Marines. That whould indeed beat mass marine, but as it has been pointed out, mass marines are so very easy to use compared to sentry and that gives a huge advantage at the lower levels. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:15 Tsabo wrote: That whould indeed beat mass marine, but as it has been pointed out, mass marines are so very easy to use compared to sentry and that gives a huge advantage at the lower levels. Well, I don't really care about the low levels of skills, regarding strategies. I'm pretty sure a silver league player with this build will mess it up and then forget to build marines for 3 minutes while fighting, have 4k overmins and lose. This is not meant to be offensive, this is just what I see from friends that play at this skill level. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
This dies to the 3gateway Sentry/Stalker pressure...like straight up dies. The push hits around 6:30mins with 6 Stalkers and 3 Sentries and crush everything, but to be fair it crushes all 1rax expands (well forces them back into the base), if they micro they only lose at most 1 Stalker, then with 3 more stalkers warped in to reinforce they just push into your base and you can't do anything, then when they realize you have nothing they just skip the expand and keep warping in units, once that Sentry/Stalker ball gets momentum it is almost impossible to stop without marauders. Your stim hasn't even started when he hits, so when he breaks that ramp hes going to kill your tech lab that has stim before it can ever complete and it is gg from there.. More bunkers would help, but you die with only one bunker EDIT: I think this build relies on momentum, small victories end up leading to bigger advantages later on, if Protoss can ever snatch it away from you it goes down hill fast | ||
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Barty
France64 Posts
3k master | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
This strat allows FE, but great defence aganist a scouted 4 gates (3 bunkers is enough). A solid pressure push (about 25 marines) at about 7-8 minute. And also a chance to make a 3rd at lightspeed (aka better eco than the P). And the amazing of this is that if you "lose" a battle, the loses money-wise almost always favors the T! The T only need decent marine control to avoid any zealot contact. Remember than 1 stalker cost almost the same than 4 marines (this guy makes refineries only about minute 8-7), so in the early battle you just can´t kite 24 marines with like 4-5 stalkers (you prolly have a pair of sentries and a pair of zealots too, but useless in those numbers), so if you don´t scout the build, AND make a good amount of units, you are kinda fucked. I'm not saying the build is the unbeatable or something, i just say that it rewards a lot with not that much skill, and imo that makes it anoying. | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:25 rEalGuapo wrote: Well, I don't really care about the low levels of skills, regarding strategies. I'm pretty sure a silver league player with this build will mess it up and then forget to build marines for 3 minutes while fighting, have 4k overmins and lose. This is not meant to be offensive, this is just what I see from friends that play at this skill level. Sorry but obviosly this is a lower level strategy that will never work twice in masters league. Why whold you even consider this for high level play ? And by lower level I mean anything below masters. In fact, masters in itself is lower level play. Lower then pro anyhow =) | ||
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Veasel
Sweden159 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:34 Belha wrote: This strat is awesome at the point its almost slightly op. As a protoss a played some +3500 T guy from TL channel who does indeed this strat in tvp (or something really similar; we played like 10 games). I never felt like in those games, in any sc2 match. For the first time i feel like im being beated by a guy with less skill than I but with no cheese involved! I feel totally owned just by the build. This strat allows FE, but great defence aganist a scouted 4 gates (3 bunkers is enough). A solid pressure push (about 25 marines) at about 7-8 minute. And also a chance to make a 3rd at lightspeed (aka better eco than the P). And the amazing of this is that if you "lose" a battle, the loses money-wise almost always favors the T! The T only need decent marine control to avoid any zealot contact. Remember than 1 stalker cost almost the same than 4 marines (this guy makes refineries only about minute 8-7), so in the early battle you just can´t kite 24 marines with like 4-5 stalkers (you prolly have a pair of sentries and a pair of zealots too, but useless in those numbers), so if you don´t scout the build, AND make a good amount of units, you are kinda fucked. I'm not saying the build is the unbeatable or something, i just say that it rewards a lot with not that much skill, and imo that makes it anoying. Now you know how we Terrand feel everytime we end up laddering you Protoss guys and mainly outplaying them, but still we lose to some kind of ht tech, or any kind of 4gate...... Time to abuuse, althou i think it loses to blink stalkers and sentry/ zlot and then upgrading charge | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:35 Tsabo wrote: Sorry but obviosly this is a lower level strategy that will never work twice in masters league. Why whold you even consider this for high level play ? And by lower level I mean anything below masters\high diamond. You would be surprised how effective this is, I beat a few masters league protoss, maybe they were caught off guard? Either way, people say Cannon rushes and Six pools only ever work in low level leagues, but you would be surprised how many people still get caught by that in high masters. I think most people have lost to more Cannon rushes than they have defended (at least in PvP) | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
On March 12 2011 21:38 Dommk wrote: You would be surprised how effective this is, I beat a few masters league protoss, maybe they were caught off guard? Either way, people say Cannon rushes and Six pools only ever work in low level leagues, but you would be surprised how many people still get caught by that in high masters. I think most people have lost to more Cannon rushes than they have defended (at least in PvP) Thats why I sayed never work twice. =) Can't be caught off guard twice. Well, cheese is kinda diffrent from this. Cheese can work if it is not scouted, that gives it a desent chance to work. This will allways be scouted in high level play. Ofc, even in a pro game one can miss a FF and loose to this strat. But he will do that once in 20 games. And win the rest. I prefer to call that "never" because clearly noone wants to win only 1/20 games. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12004 Posts
Because realistically, here are a lot of people claiming it is easy to beat, and a lot of people claiming that it is very strong, even if the opponent knows it is coming. So why don't people of both fractions pair up and play it out? That would at least be a lot more effective than shouting at each other. | ||
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Evoshadow
United States88 Posts
This is a fun build but I think beatable Zealot sentry with collosus behind it would do very well here, even one collosus, and with the forcefields I dont see how you could snipe it off, once 3 collosi are out its all over. | ||
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Nonvidius
United States34 Posts
So yes it might not work twice if all you were doing was this build, but I think its a great aggressive build to come off of the FE at a timing a toss might not expect, just like how chesses can be used in top tier play to keep people honest this build does the same thing, just at a different timing window. | ||
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uurrnn
United States19 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
-Mass upgrades; marines rely on their quick firerate to deal the damage and stim takes that concept to the next level. Gateway units already have 1 armor and further armor upgrades will severely cut into marine damage. -Mass cannons; marines just suck pretty hard versus cannons. - Sentry/ zealot as core army; zealots to tank and deal the damage whilst sentries use their guardian shield and forcefields to assist zealots in their role. (Building stalkers seems like a waste of money after stim is done). Edit: I see others mentioning sentry/ stalker, do you mean before stim? - Fast Charge; with the Stim research probably going up to 170 ingame seconds, I wonder if you can keep up marine agression against fast chargelots. Might give Protoss a timing to get HT's out. | ||
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