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[G] Baselayout to counter 4 Gate - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-18 18:02:39
February 18 2011 17:59 GMT
#41
On February 18 2011 22:52 Farmerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2011 05:35 Xanatoss wrote:
On February 18 2011 05:25 Farmerz wrote:
Well first of all its not the strongest pylon position he can have ^^ usually he has the pylon right at your ramp, you cant rly kill it because he will be able to shoot at you, remember: hes permanentely trying to get up the ramp, there is simply no time to chill there with some stalker and kill his pylon :D

and besides, my build has the advantage that no pylon powers a building alone. if you look at your base, if i catch almost any pylon i want, i would unpower a building, at my base you can kill any pylon you want, no building will be unpowered


I think we talk at cross-purposes.
No he cant shot your Stalkers ontop of your Ramp. He is blocked out by forcefields. Thats why you get Sentries, thats why he is building his pylon so near to port above your FF and inside your base afterwards, thats why we discuss the whole building placement, isnt it?

And as I mentioned all Buildings in my Layout are powered by 2 Pylons (cannons).

Edit: Made another screen to visualize my point. Consider the below-ramp-pylon still warping in and your opponent with 1 Zealot, 6 Stalkers and ready to warp in 4 zealots (the typical 1 Gas 4 Gate All-in).

4 rela





i totally understood you. the thing is, imagine he snipes of 1 pylon, as many ppl said here. losing a pylon is actually possible in a normal game, but its only effective if that unpowers a building. at your first pictures losing a pylon would mean losing power for a gateway, and thats huge.

and if its about shooting from the top ramp down then you dont even need the buildings, but the thing is that forcefields cant be used to negate vision, because he can warpin zealots over the forcefield and then he has vision. if you dont build your buildings there, you are force to fight his complete army (either you back off and he will eventually get up your ramp with mass stalkers or you stay near your choke and he will be able to shoot with some stalker up the ramp.

if you look at your screenshot, there where your 2 stalkers shoot down, he can warp in zealots to, so whats the point of building your buildings at the edge if you create big holes like that in your defense? :O


How often am I supposed to repeat that again? No, its actual 2 Pylons powering each Gateway.
The cannons you see in my pictures are the positions of the pylons powering the Gates in a real game and the actual pylons shown there are your opponent's possible proxy pylons.

Of corse he can warp in Zealots above the FF. You cant prevent that (except with 2 FFs all the time which is not maintainable at that point in time. The point is even with the vision he gets then he cant warp in units behind the wall because all proxy-pylon-positions he can establish without getting shot by atleast 2 stalkers (which means he loses the pylon before it finishes) dont provide any space above the ramp to actualy warp in units except the region his stalkers would have to break through anyways (ramp -> building choke -> beyond) to get into the base. Therefore you can keep the ramp advantage and prevent him from warping in units from the flank to mess with sentries etc.

And if buildings are not needed to hold of a 4 Gate if you stay on top of your ramp, as you mentioned, I really wonder why you started a thread about Building Placement to defend 4 Gates in the first place.

I really dont know if I play on a complete different planet so our perceptions of 4Gate are that unidentical.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
Farmerz
Profile Joined January 2011
39 Posts
February 19 2011 13:50 GMT
#42
dude ^^ the cannon next to the 3 zealots doesnt cover the core and the cannon which is the furthest away (kinda positioning when you wall off vs zerg) doesnt cover the gate near to the zealots (corner)

but doesnt matter anyways, it works, try it or dont, no point discussing basic things
Farmerz
Profile Joined January 2011
39 Posts
February 20 2011 09:26 GMT
#43
I've added another replay that i just played vs a 3,6k protoss. he 4 gated me and i succeeded defending it and won due to my gas advantage. i added another 4th gate because i saw he fully commits to the 4 gate (he didnt even kill my gas)
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
February 20 2011 10:54 GMT
#44
Horrible executed 4Gate tbh. He could have gotten almost another full cycle of zealots (wasted all in all 30sec by late core and late WG transform) and wasted alot of critical ressources by his decision to scoot around the map with a 2nd probe. In addition he pointless suicided units into your ramp before WGs kicked in.
Nevertheless a good example how building placement can give an edge against 4Gate.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
xenaris
Profile Joined July 2010
Belgium34 Posts
February 20 2011 11:05 GMT
#45
pics work, great info, i'll look into it :D thanks ^^
leet
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-20 11:09:20
February 20 2011 11:08 GMT
#46
if there are holes, you should be able to put your own units there to prevent warp in.
doesn't necessarily have to be buildings.
BuzzCraftTV
Profile Joined November 2010
United States42 Posts
February 20 2011 11:28 GMT
#47
Heres the problem, against someone who just plans to 4gate you, this will work great, but against someone who looks at your placement and thinks hmm, if I just get one observer, I can kill all those buildings, and I can chronoboost immortals behind it and kill him when he's rebuilding his gateways, and he cant do much about it if i go heavy stalkers, because by the time my second gate goes down i see your simcity, switch to only stalkers and drop a robo on the spot, go up to 3 gates, and yeah, theres not going to be a lot you can do from here

reactionary play wins games more often than any build/trick/nuance you can name, this is why I went Z <3
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-20 12:19:09
February 20 2011 12:17 GMT
#48
On February 20 2011 20:28 Javahulk wrote:
Heres the problem, against someone who just plans to 4gate you, this will work great, but against someone who looks at your placement and thinks hmm, if I just get one observer, I can kill all those buildings, and I can chronoboost immortals behind it and kill him when he's rebuilding his gateways, and he cant do much about it if i go heavy stalkers, because by the time my second gate goes down i see your simcity, switch to only stalkers and drop a robo on the spot, go up to 3 gates, and yeah, theres not going to be a lot you can do from here

reactionary play wins games more often than any build/trick/nuance you can name, this is why I went Z <3


Nice theory but your gas is stolen and if you dont stand at his Ramp @ 6 Minutes the 4 Gate Timing Window closes, so he is pretty sure that you dont 4 Gate and adapts.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
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