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Dominican Republic913 Posts
wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL
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Build 4) Thor + banshee + marines (I don't know the number of buildings, but this build is easily scouted)
If you call a 3 base 20 min push all-in, then have fun.
Redicoules how toss players just call every strategy terran does "all in" cuz he brought a couple of SCVs
And for the Raven banshees push, its better to focus on sentries then on stalkers as sentires doesnt influenced by pdd.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On March 02 2011 04:43 dohgg wrote:Show nested quote +Build 4) Thor + banshee + marines (I don't know the number of buildings, but this build is easily scouted) If you call a 3 base 20 min push all-in, then have fun. Redicoules how toss players just call every strategy terran does "all in" cuz he brought a couple of SCVs And for the Raven banshees push, its better to focus on sentries then on stalkers as sentires doesnt influenced by pdd.
Coming from a terran... lol man, The op is talking about 1base Thor + banshee + marines
that Most of the Terran do with 1 or 2 Thor and this comes arround 8minutes mark and yes
its 1BASE
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There seriously needs to be a topic for protoss like this also. I get 1 based all ined so much. 3 gate star/robo/4 gate, etc :/ Driving me nuts. Somebody willing to do? Where is the 3 rax build btw.
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The hardcounter to the 2 Thor all-in (or semi all-in) is actually going DTs right away (was also pointed out by Artosis quite a while ago). When the push is coming too early for you, you can always do hit&run with your stalkers from the flanks to stop him from going straight to your base. The most important thing then is, to not send all your DTs at once, just one at a time. If you have the minerals and the warpgate cooldown its also very nice to send one DT of the 1st wave into your opponents base. However, NEVER ever make immortals! Strike cannons > Immortals.
DTs vs 2 Thor-Push
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
Yeah DT are Great because they are speading energy from CC in Mule... well not all terran does strike cannons
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Everything except 5 (which hits way before) can be stopped with 1gate fe into mass gateway units and a quick +1 armour. With a stargate against a 2 port build.
On March 02 2011 05:43 moonylo wrote:The hardcounter to the 2 Thor all-in (or semi all-in) is actually going DTs right away (was also pointed out by Artosis quite a while ago). When the push is coming too early for you, you can always do hit&run with your stalkers from the flanks to stop him from going straight to your base. The most important thing then is, to not send all your DTs at once, just one at a time. If you have the minerals and the warpgate cooldown its also very nice to send one DT of the 1st wave into your opponents base. However, NEVER ever make immortals! Strike cannons > Immortals. DTs vs 2 Thor-Push
Assuming you don't have maphack so you can choose to go DTs, immortals in #'s greater than the thors so they don't all get strike cannon'd are pretty good. Regardless, strike cannon'ing your immortals makes the thors not attack your gateway units which really isn't that bad and the immortal will get a minimum of 2 shots off against a strike cannon'ing thor which is well worth it.
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Is this theorycrafting or have you actually tried it against a half decent terran? I see the problem with your argumentation as follows:
If the immortal gets two shots of on the thor means you're focusing the thor, thus making the repair of the pulled SCVs very strong and letting the marines stay alive, which also deal quite some damage. If you're not a 100% sure, that you can snipe off a thor really really fast, this is really risky. Because if it just takes a little bit too long, you're dead.
Of course the DT approach means, that you have to know, that the thors are coming. When u get quite a fast observer (after 1 or 2 gates) you normally have enough time to get a DT shrine up in time. However its very very close, when you're spawning close on Metalopolis for example. You really have to buy some time with your stalkers then. But its possible.
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On March 02 2011 07:36 moonylo wrote:
Is this theorycrafting or have you actually tried it against a half decent terran? I see the problem with your argumentation as follows:
If the immortal gets two shots of on the thor means you're focusing the thor, thus making the repair of the pulled SCVs very strong and letting the marines stay alive, which also deal quite some damage. If you're not a 100% sure, that you can snipe off a thor really really fast, this is really risky. Because if it just takes a little bit too long, you're dead.
Of course the DT approach means, that you have to know, that the thors are coming. When u get quite a fast observer (after 1 or 2 gates) you normally have enough time to get a DT shrine up in time. However its very very close, when you're spawning close on Metalopolis for example. You really have to buy some time with your stalkers then. But its possible.
You definately don't have to time to 2 gate robo obs scout -> DT's against a thor rush
And yes i've tried it against terrans and defended it perfectly fine with mass gateway + immortals and +1 armour.
With zealots killing scvs really quickly now its not really a big problem. Its worth noting that I do throw down a stargate after my robo against a 1 base terran because it deals well with pretty much everyall tech based all in they can do
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
Sorry to bump this thread but this is very important thread, why there arent many answers, im here waiting for those Strategicall spotlighted to post something here
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On March 02 2011 04:10 2GRe-Play- wrote:
wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL
I think many protoss players confuse all-ins with timing attacks. 1-base-timing-attacks are not all-in but rather the correct response to an FE. In the PvT matchup, it's also the only viable way to open with anything except bio. It's not all-in if you just attack, don't pull svcs and expand behind your push - why should it be.
Sure there are those builds that are all-in and where you pull half/all your scvs withthe push - but not every terran who doesn't fe plays all-in ! If blizzard intended for everyone to play fe, they could have just made you start with 2 bases.
I'm seriously sick of getting flamed or bm'd on ladder as an all-in player when i'm just playing mech with a late expand while i deny my opponents fe advantage through eco harass.
The correct term for _most_ of the builds described here is timing push, not all-in attack.
Also, you might want to add to the compilation - my favourite - marine/hellion/banshee with a pair of tanks, a raven and a ghost. Very micro intensive (the comment about terrans a-moving to victory made me laugh) but also quite deadly when done right. Transition is mech based play with mostly tank/hellion/thor and a few vikings and ghosts.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On March 04 2011 00:19 Lurk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:10 2GRe-Play- wrote:
wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL I think many protoss players confuse all-ins with timing attacks. 1-base-timing-attacks are not all-in but rather the correct response to an FE. In the PvT matchup, it's also the only viable way to open with anything except bio. It's not all-in if you just attack, don't pull svcs and expand behind your push - why should it be. Sure there are those builds that are all-in and where you pull half/all your scvs withthe push - but not every terran who doesn't fe plays all-in ! If blizzard intended for everyone to play fe, they could have just made you start with 2 bases. I'm seriously sick of getting flamed or bm'd on ladder as an all-in player when i'm just playing mech with a late expand while i deny my opponents fe advantage through eco harass. The correct term for _most_ of the builds described here is timing push, not all-in attack. Also, you might want to add to the compilation - my favourite - marine/hellion/banshee with a pair of tanks, a raven and a ghost. Very micro intensive (the comment about terrans a-moving to victory made me laugh) but also quite deadly when done right. Transition is mech based play with mostly tank/hellion/thor and a few vikings and ghosts.
lol, Man did u Read our own post? those attack are all-in because u are getting every unit from 1 base, dont come here telling me that this is the responses of P FE because is not, u know for sure
that P need that Expo because 1base toss Sucks, and while im getting Probes, Pylons, Nexus, u just cutting SCV and doing ur Tipical 1base play called timming attack WTF...
u Get flamed because u just play 1base 1,201,021,650UNIT A-MOVE
BUT THAT PART OF THE GAME, i know i have to learn how to counter that
and guess what? when toss have the right responses to all this !@##$% terran do
u will start playing world of warcraft again...
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On March 04 2011 00:19 Lurk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:10 2GRe-Play- wrote:
wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL I think many protoss players confuse all-ins with timing attacks. 1-base-timing-attacks are not all-in but rather the correct response to an FE. In the PvT matchup, it's also the only viable way to open with anything except bio. It's not all-in if you just attack, don't pull svcs and expand behind your push - why should it be.
Lurk, your post is kind and not BM at all, but it is not relevant for the thread itself.
All the builds I described are all in, you stay on one base for a lot and everytime I beat the push I easily crush the expo behind.
Let's keep the discussion open to the counters, and not on definitions all-in vs timing pushes.
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On March 02 2011 04:10 2GRe-Play- wrote:
wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL
Could you send me the replays/VODs? I would like to watch the games and then improve the first page of the thread.
And please, be manner  and don't say that T doesn't require skills, zerg has got 6 pool, speedling + roach pushes, and toss has proxy gateway, cannon rush and 4 warpgate (even if this is easily stoppable as it is very popular). Every race can be played like a noob
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Edit: Just read Entropia's Post. Sorry i didn't intend to derail your post. There are probably both allin and non-allin variants of those builds.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On March 04 2011 02:05 Entropia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:10 2GRe-Play- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +wow i was about to open a thread about ALL-IN 1BASE TERRAN but u come ahead, well thanks
i dont know if Terran is a joke race or the player, because whats the point praying to do 1base and hoping that ur attack work?
I finnish watching all Games from Hasuobs vs T in Lastest TSLQuali, he does very well vs 1base allins
WOW 9games were allins from T
1base terran doesnt requires any skill, just do 2-3barrack, 1port, 1factory and cut scv arround 30-38
I think most of this all in can be stopped if we Protosses cut probes as well at good time
and just mass speedlots with 2-3sentries, inmortal and phoenix, i think stalkers are useless vs all this variations
I would like to see responses from Tyler, Cruncher, Kiwikaki, Nani, Hasuobs, Mana, iNcontroL Could you send me the replays/VODs? I would like to watch the games and then improve the first page of the thread. And please, be manner and don't say that T doesn't require skills, zerg has got 6 pool, speedling + roach pushes, and toss has proxy gateway, cannon rush and 4 warpgate (even if this is easily stoppable as it is very popular). Every race can be played like a noob
I downloaded from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196575
Ro32 Ro16 and final and semis, all reps from Hasuobs
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Im Terran and I have a few matchs against inControl on ladder where he demolishes it LOL...will upload it when I get the chance.
In my experience though, i'd suggest protoss to scout base with early phonix, any sort of timing push comes much earlier then the time you get a phonix out
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It's impossible to make a list like this. The response required from protoss after going gate->robo->2 gates->nexus or gate->nexus->2 more gates+robo or 2 gate->nexus->robo, etc. are all different.
You can't hold a strong marine+scv+tank all-in with the gate->robo->2 more gates->nexus without cancelling or sacrificing the nexus, but if you do either of the other two builds, it's a joke to hold, since your extra economy from the expansion has kicked in far earlier.
Similarly, if you do 1 gate->nexus, you have to respond to any marine+scv all-in or early marine/marauder scv all-in by sacrificing the expansion and force fielding the ramp, whereas if you do gate->robo->2 more gates you just LOL at them for trying to all-in you.
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Farmerz could you re-upload? your replay was deleted and I really cannot seem to hold this type of push...
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I do a more simple all-in that I do not think is listed that surprisingly works on a lot of maps.
9 Depot
12 Barracks
14 Barracks
15 Barracks (proxied)
15/16 OC (Call Down Supply ASAP)
Make it look like you're going to Fast Expo. As soon as the 15 rax is done, it should be between (3:50-4:30) you should be rallying your marines to the watch tower(s). Pull 10-11 SCV's and deny his scouting with your marines. Make sure he doesn't see you pulling those SCVs. Hit with SCV's taking the damage, I like to turn half of them on auto-repair. They should have only a zealot & stalker by the time you reach their base. Make sure to kill theirs pylons. Most of the time, you can get them to GG but if not, they had to pull probes to hold off the attack. So even if it fails, you should be on even footing. I usually just go 3Rax with two of them pumping Rauders and 1 pumping Marines. Poke and push, and make sure to use those mules! Try to expand when he doesn't expect it. You should win easily.
Edit: Sorry its no so clear, it was written in a rush.
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EPT
