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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On February 17 2011 18:39 ThisIsSparta_ wrote: does your build order ( especially the gas timing) change when terran is opening 2 rax? IdrA opted for an earlier gas and faster speed. How you open is kinda open to interpretation. The mid-game is what's important. | ||
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Valckrie
United Kingdom533 Posts
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dc302
Australia576 Posts
On February 17 2011 20:01 valckrie wrote: Since you don't have AA that early, what do you do vs a terran that sees that you aren't going muta so keeps making banshees and has cloak? On creep a fungal with queens could kill it but do you ever spawn infested terrans? And off creep, it will take a lot of fungals to kill banshees especially if they are spread out - although they will take a while to kill the lings/blings. Still feels if you don't get muta early his banshees will stop you doing any real damage to him hydras + infestors shut down banshees! | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
On February 17 2011 20:01 valckrie wrote: Since you don't have AA that early, what do you do vs a terran that sees that you aren't going muta so keeps making banshees and has cloak? On creep a fungal with queens could kill it but do you ever spawn infested terrans? And off creep, it will take a lot of fungals to kill banshees especially if they are spread out - although they will take a while to kill the lings/blings. Still feels if you don't get muta early his banshees will stop you doing any real damage to him I suppose that if you encounter heavy air play, you can always get a spire in reaction to that after fending off the early attacks. I would imagine that if a lot of resources are invested into banshees, then the later ground attack would be delayed, giving you some time to get some mutas. It's good to have a build to provide a general gameplan, but that doesn't mean following it without reacting to what types of tech you scout. | ||
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ThisIsSparta_
Austria39 Posts
On February 17 2011 18:42 MrBitter wrote: IdrA opted for an earlier gas and faster speed. How you open is kinda open to interpretation. The mid-game is what's important. would you recommend to go 15 hatch vs terran or use the saver pool first build like IdrA did? Is the econ advantage when opening hatch first worth the risk of losing the game coz of 2 rax? btw thanks for everything! your stream and your coaching sessions helped me out a lot!  thumbs up for MrBitter! | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
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Super_bricklayer
France104 Posts
I was wondering that since i read that OP, and now after watching the ZvT with Idra and Lz i feel it has to be a good way of having more solid defenses before infestor pop out. I've some success with it, still i'm mid/high diamond so i wish i could read some high master & co on that specific point. Lz speaking also convince me here, i felt that his comment were very solid and make a lot of senses ( the Bw logic stuff, +1 armour etc... ) and don't forget that in a way, it's started with his session. I would be gladly clic a dozen more time before watching your vods on blip sir bitter for your thought on that point. ^^ | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
It isn't. We have tons of way to scout it. The only downside is the beginning. We really really lack of scouting but when we get speed and pressure the terran, it's just impossible to not see a drop. Most maps have towers that covers a good portion of the map. Not using it with a single gling is just asking for challenges. Later on the game, you can always let an infestor stay in ur base since they deal with drop extremely well untill reinforcement comes. What's best ? spend 900 gas for mutas and snip them out or get an infestor + glings deal with dropping marines for only 150 gas and whatever minerals you have ? | ||
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Yagulare
Poland42 Posts
. Just drop evos asap and start armor before pit. But i always felt i didnt need more than some lings and spines to def. | ||
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Flyingpants
79 Posts
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Yagulare
Poland42 Posts
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CaptTerrible
United States72 Posts
Personally I like to focus a lot more on the banelings as opposed to zerglings. I feel that since we arn't really using muta's that we can put that focus into setting up nice positioning for burrowed banelings and baneling drops. And with infestors you can really make it a pain for the terran to move around. Then late game rolls around and Ultra/Bane just owns everybody. Simply put i think this style feels very solid with the ability to do some exceptional harass or burrow shenanigans that can really make a terran player tilt. | ||
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Xeken
United States77 Posts
The addition of banshee is necessary because without some form of air pressure, ling spotter with infestors spread all over the map will make getting to Z's base without taking massive damage next to impossible (unless you are ok with tank hopping across the entire map). I feel that the way to approach combating T with this approach is to go directly after his army (unless he is way out of position to defend his 3rd), and worry about taking down his expansion after you have softened him up. In close macro matches, I'd generally beat his first army at the 3rd, but would not be able to do economic damage. But that's not a big deal because you will remax with better unit composition than T does (there is no way T can support 5+ factory at this point in the game). I've had games where I had to trade armies 3-4 times, but eventually, I will break the opponent. Also, I like to add 8 hydras inbetween lair/hive tech, and I also do not get banelings till I'm on at least 4 bases. But that's a personal preference. | ||
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MHT
Sweden1026 Posts
My question is how do you best counter this with a 1-1-1 if you scout him build an infestation pit? Normally i have 2 reactors and a techlab with it. | ||
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koveras
163 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:40 Xeken wrote: I've been playing ling>infestor for about 2-3 months now. From my experience, the most dangerous T composition against ling>infestor is MMMTB. Composition breakdown is ~3 medivacs (this will save about 8-10 marines from getting blown away by fungal), 3 tanks (only way to win war of attrition against infestors. 4 tanks or more is when I start to worry), and 1-2 banshee (move them around the map separately) to clear the path to Z's base to prevent getting ninja-ed by fungal. Rest is MM, no specific ratio of marine/marauder. The addition of banshee is necessary because without some form of air pressure, ling spotter with infestors spread all over the map will make getting to Z's base without taking massive damage next to impossible (unless you are ok with tank hopping across the entire map). I feel that the way to approach combating T with this approach is to go directly after his army (unless he is way out of position to defend his 3rd), and worry about taking down his expansion after you have softened him up. In close macro matches, I'd generally beat his first army at the 3rd, but would not be able to do economic damage. But that's not a big deal because you will remax with better unit composition than T does (there is no way T can support 5+ factory at this point in the game). I've had games where I had to trade armies 3-4 times, but eventually, I will break the opponent. Also, I like to add 8 hydras inbetween lair/hive tech, and I also do not get banelings till I'm on at least 4 bases. But that's a personal preference. Are you wood league or something -_- | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
Imo, this is a lot less scary than muta ling bane. in general, no matter what opening I do, I get 3-4rax and tech medivac. As soon as you see infestors, just start dropping everywhere and taking a third. Go up to about 3 factories and make a lot of tanks. Its extremely hard to get map control vs a heavy dropping terran, and counterattacking is pretty impractical. Not having to defend from mutas and having excellent scv count will allow terran to also upgrade and take a third pretty quickly, at very little risk. They use the drops to keep your economy from going out of control (defending 3 places from drops + marine pressure is really hard for infestor z) while preparing an army composition to counter yours. | ||
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koveras
163 Posts
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
When do you look to expand? Macro hatches? How many? When? Hellion or banshee openings? | ||
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IamZieK
Canada162 Posts
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
Another thing I am noticing is that there is a little less finishing power with the infestor build. You have the ability to very quickly punish your opponent with a flock of mutas by camping over their production facility or wiping out greedy expansions. With infestors you can kill an army out in the open but they are harder to use do to siteing issues and chokes when you move on Ts main. | ||
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