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Back before Idra's mass mutalisk style got popular, a lot of people including Fruitdealer would build just a few mutalisks, use them to take their third with map control and then proceed to do something else. I feel like that style is a lot more stable vs drops and banshees than the infestor opening, and it also has the capability to exploit any timing windows your opponent leaves open (i.e. not having turrets up in time/in the right places).
You could make like 8-10 mutas then cut muta production, expand and add double evos while you're expanding. 6gas makes infestor/ling/bling much more viable IMO, as you have the money to replace infestors you lose in addition to getting upgrades and banelings and teching, and instead of getting the mutas later in REACTION to drops when you're already hurting you already have them because you opened by making a few of them. Mutas can also force defensiveness meaning a slower third which, even though you're ok with it, generally makes the game harder than it needs to be.
Also, as others have mentioned, I think infestor based play struggles vs well played 2fact tank, and so if you saw 2 factories with your initial clump of mutas you could transition into mass muta play by starting air upgrades and continuing ot muta pump, and if it's anything else besides 2fact you can continue on with your funky infestor based play 
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So I've been trying this build out a bit recently and I really like how much stronger I feel in the mid game, but I am finding that I just can't kill people in the late game even when I have a huge lead. My main problem is that when they get a decent amount of tanks out they really just melt my whole army.
So basically I guess my question is, what should I be doing vs a late game Terran that has a decent amount of tanks? Regardless of the rest of his composition. Here are some thoughts that I have had personally, let me know if they are right or wrong:
1. Get roaches to tank the siege tank damage as soon as you see that they have more then just a few tanks.
2. REALLY rush to ultralisks and deal with them that way. (Not sure if/how I can do this without just dying in the process. It feels like in order to get the resources needed, I need to over-expand to the point where if they attack I am not going to be able to hold it off.)
Here are my thoughts on it, what kind of things are you guys doing and seeing success with in the same situation? Thanks! =)
Edit: I know that in the OP it says to deal with them with Neural Parasite, but I'm really have trouble doing that because my infestors die very quickly. Maybe I'm doing something else wrong, but so far this is the way things have gone for me.
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Tried this build last night and my +1/+1 lings got owned by stim marines and blue-flame hellions before my infestors were out... like... not even close...
I hate ZvT...
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On February 16 2011 00:22 Jermstuddog wrote:
Tried this build last night and my +1/+1 lings got owned by stim marines and blue-flame hellions before my infestors were out... like... not even close...
I hate ZvT...
Did you have banelings? They're amazing vs blueflamehellion/marine openings
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On February 16 2011 00:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 00:22 Jermstuddog wrote:
Tried this build last night and my +1/+1 lings got owned by stim marines and blue-flame hellions before my infestors were out... like... not even close...
I hate ZvT... Did you have banelings? They're amazing vs blueflamehellion/marine openings
I think that this build gets your banelings out after infestors, I'm curious when doing this build what would trigger laying down a baneling nest early, 2rax? Scouting 4-5 rax?
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On February 16 2011 00:31 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 00:24 Shikyo wrote:On February 16 2011 00:22 Jermstuddog wrote:
Tried this build last night and my +1/+1 lings got owned by stim marines and blue-flame hellions before my infestors were out... like... not even close...
I hate ZvT... Did you have banelings? They're amazing vs blueflamehellion/marine openings I think that this build gets your banelings out after infestors, I'm curious when doing this build what would trigger laying down a baneling nest early, 2rax? Scouting 4-5 rax?
Mrbitter said that you need to react and get banes earlier if needed and so on. I definitely would get banes if I scouted something like 2-3rax with blueflame hellions. At least roaches.
EDIT: I personally would lay down my banelings nest with the next 50 gas after lair if I saw he wasn't expanding but if he's doing blueflame hellions there's definitely enough time to react.
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Yeah, its the whole scouting thing, I knew he had marines and lots of em, so I just started pumping lings hard. Then 4 blue-flame hellions come out of nowhere and it was like gg...
I guess the moral of the story is: lings can only get you so far, feel free to throw down a bling nest at the slightest inkling.
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On February 16 2011 00:34 Jermstuddog wrote:
Yeah, its the whole scouting thing, I knew he had marines and lots of em, so I just started pumping lings hard. Then 4 blue-flame hellions come out of nowhere and it was like gg...
I guess the moral of the story is: lings can only get you so far, feel free to throw down a bling nest at the slightest inkling.
Or a good number of spines. Marine/helion is not that good against few spines+queens to heal them.
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I assume you switch into roach/infestor if you scout Terran going mech?
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I tried this build out yesterday and I have to say I really enjoy the playstyle. The terran kept trying to push in to my main but I would throw some fungals down and stop his advance every time. I still have trouble attacking the siege tank lines with just lings, maybe I don't have enough though. But anyway thanks for showing this build!
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On February 15 2011 18:51 vojnik wrote:Thanks Mr Bitter for this awesome guide, gonna implement it in my ZvT for sure  A thing i really want to ask after watching the replays is your larvae spit, do you use some macro? because u have this fast base switch spit mechanic i dont think i can emulate with normal taping and clicking. Can you please enlighten me how you do it? Thanks a lot in advance
This is how he injects:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125725
Basic Guide \ Idea
1. Put all queens on 1 hotkey.
2. Select queens.
3. Press Spawn Larvae hotkey.
4. Press Backspace once to center on a hatch.
5. Hold Right Side Shift. (With left hand thumb, do not release at all)
6. Click Left Mouse Button + Backspace (Hit backspace with left hand index\middle finger) <- Repeat this series of actions rapidly. Hitting LMB and Backspace over and over in succession.
7. All hatches are injected.
With custom hotkeys you can change the Backspace key to a more convenient one (I use the tilda key ~). If you get this down you can inject in <1 sec.
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Australia241 Posts
I watched the shakuras-plateau matchup where he went thor + marines. It must have been annoying when he sniped your scouting overlords.
One part of the game he went for his third, you scouted this and moved in but his army got into reasonable position, would it be smart to preemptively plant some infested terrans on the high ground in this scenario? (right after he uses the high ground to plant some thors and shut down any advance while he licked his wounds after the battle)
Is it worth getting overlord speed, and maybe some overseers using this strat? if the terran knows you aren't going for a muta harass can you make them put up AA anyway using overseers or will the marines be enough to fend off any contaminates?
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Thanks alot for posting this. Tried it a few times both on ladder and off it. Im currently gold Zerg and still managed to beat diamond/masters T with this. Also being able to directly engage T army is funny as Z.
Also i found out that most of the times i even dont need blings cause fungal+ultras+3/3 cracklings kill bio so fast especially with neuraled units support. Only thing is i hadnt met a Banshee harass yet so dunno how it affects this build.
Thx MrBitter
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On February 16 2011 15:00 zergrushkekeke wrote:
...
Is it worth getting overlord speed, and maybe some overseers using this strat? if the terran knows you aren't going for a muta harass can you make them put up AA anyway using overseers or will the marines be enough to fend off any contaminates?
I would prefer him not to get turrets as it leaves the option of burrowing 2 infestors into a mineral line to FG the SCVs (a la Catz). If successful, it can decide games (and isn't a terribly large investment).
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I've played against this build before. I won by luck though. I went 15 cc and constantly traded his army/larva with 5-then-8 rax until I got my tanks out.
The problem with this build is you can't stop Terran having other bases though. I was able to have my third base up 2,3 minutes before the zerg having his, and a simple bunker and wallin raxes will be able to hold off the zerglings.
Overall it's a good aggressive build. Have anyone tried to use the gas for nydus worm or overlord's drop instead of the upgrade?
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I just tried this, but instead of going mutas or ultras I went broodlords.. works fine too.
And I have to say.. HOLY SHIT I have a lot of resources midgame >_>.
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I never needed the drop/nydus because a counter after battle with T with festors/ultras that left/reinforcing lings suffice to take his expos so you can remax and crush his main with whatever he managed to build :D
EDIT: also upgrades are critical with the unit comp i use so i wont dare skip it
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I played a few zerg last night who were using this. As a terran, I have to play a lot differently. You have to be really slow and careful, use lots of tanks, and not rely too heavily on bio (tough for me). THe most frustrating thing is the infestors/lings force tank/hellion, then the zerg can switch to mutas crazy fast and you have a low marine count and no turrets.
Damn you bitter
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By the time the Terran has SO MANY TANKS, you need tier 3. We all know that broodlords basically turns sieged tanks into suicide for the terran. If you want to go Ultras, try 4 or so Ultras with full upgrades and a nice swarm of banelings just behind him. You can follow your leftover lings behind the ball, but it's rarely neccessary... the last few blings usually explode in their mineral line. Honestly, it really feels like if I can get say 5 Ultras and 50 Blings it's gameover. And I don't even micro well, I have banelings exploding on tanks and marauders and thors and whatever else they happen to see on A-move, but as long as the ultras are in front drawing the siege tank fire, NOTHING can stop a big enough ball of banelings.
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EPT
