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[G/D] Skipping Mutas for Infestors in ZvT - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
February 15 2011 02:29 GMT
#101
This sounds so awesome, can't wait to try it out.

I really like the quick upgrades into ultra, makes so much sense
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
PD
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway66 Posts
February 15 2011 02:42 GMT
#102
Your threads have helped my zerg play immensely. I'm really grateful for your contributions to the zerg community, your 12 weeks series is killer and I can't wait to try out this build on ladder!
Solo operative, right?
DrDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States107 Posts
February 15 2011 03:31 GMT
#103
Thanks for making the writeup and getting these replays together! I've been impressed by this strat since I saw TLO do it a while ago. Catz has been using this too recently.
b3serker
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada11 Posts
February 15 2011 03:32 GMT
#104
For those talking about the slow tank pushes:

Early tank pushes the Terran will have mostly bio with a couple tanks. As scary as that is, sling/infestor can basically overrun that imo especially if Terran doesn't have decent medivac support (and the more medivacs he has, the less tanks will be there).

Late game, I find that Ultra/ling/bling actually does a damn good job of breaking tank lines. Sure, the ultras will probably take a ton of damage but then the ling/bling hits and stuff just vanishes. Its beaaaautiful to watch
dc302
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia576 Posts
February 15 2011 03:46 GMT
#105
Loving your coaching show! I too started to try this after Mr.Bitter did, and it has been working quite well!
...
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
February 15 2011 03:48 GMT
#106
Hey, thanks for mentioning this to me in my blog back then. You're right, it's like a complete 180 on how ZvT is played. Quite an eye opener.

Thanks again.
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
February 15 2011 03:50 GMT
#107
Haha I've always hated ZvT. Was never bad at them, just hated playing the matchup in general, but this composition is just SO FUN.

Thanks so much MrBitter.
secret - never again
zergrushkekeke
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia241 Posts
February 15 2011 04:09 GMT
#108
Will watch the replays and try this tonight. My main problem with infestors are mine seem to charge in to the front lines (my horrible micro).

I have got the hang of the muta harass but always felt like if i had too many mutas there it was effectively splitting my army, and if i had to few he could just leave a few marines and turrets and just stomp on in to my base. Map control isn't much if you can't get an army that beats his by the time he gets to your base.
KEKEKE
Asecret05
Profile Joined October 2010
32 Posts
February 15 2011 05:57 GMT
#109
infestors are awesome against terran and zergs, but generally scouting is like near impossible before mutas are out and u just make due with whatever hints you are able to force out. And you just said yourself bashees gives u a problem, terran having air control is really scary and those fungals are better suited for marines unless there's like 8 bashees stacked up together.

Not only that, but wouldn't a decent amount of blue flame hellions incinerate all your lings in 1 second? Also, exactly what type of players are u playing against? Tanks are precisely why infestors aren't as popular against terran, the second they pop up from ground they die instantly against because 2 tank shot kills it and it has the highest threat; yet you claim to parasite half their tanks?
Sajuuk7
Profile Joined November 2010
134 Posts
February 15 2011 06:42 GMT
#110
Mutalisk really are horrible in straight up combat for their 100 gas price.

I still think this build is going to have trouble with Marine+Tank though, because Infestor's evaporate in just two tank blasts. Neural Parasiting Sieged Tanks is incredibly dangerous and nearly impossible.

I'll have to watch the replays you posted and see if that is actually possible, but until then I remain skeptical on how the Siege Tanks are going to die without Mutalisk/Ultralisk.
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
February 15 2011 07:18 GMT
#111
Having played a few more games with this style, I've had more success with an earlier baneling nest (during lair upgrade.) In my games I noticed a window between speedlings and infestors that felt vulnerable to 1-base pushes. Could be bad opponents, or loose timing on my part, with delays along the infestor critical path. Do you feel safe going straight for infestors against a 1-base terran who isn't letting you scout much?

Overseers... so good. Contaminate on the armory can help preserve an armor advantage for your lings, and changeling + infestor FG just feels mean
ProtossGirl
Profile Joined December 2010
England123 Posts
February 15 2011 07:55 GMT
#112
T doesn't have as much opportunity to harass with drops as people seem to exaggerate.

In my opinion fungal growth stops harass flat. by the midgame you can afford to have an infestor hold back in your main at the obvious drop point, which of course you have scouted by multiple Overlords as far as the air around your base allows.

it ALL comes down to scouting.
Phwar Gate
Stil
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom206 Posts
February 15 2011 08:21 GMT
#113
I've been doing this vs terran since I first saw it in your stream and now my win rate vs terran is 90% Thanks Mr Bitter. Hearts <3
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
February 15 2011 08:25 GMT
#114
Just quipping in, I also have a much harder time countering this style of play, and to top it off, it typically transitions to faster broodlords.

You have to stop producing marine tank vs this and instead transition to more MMM with a relatively heavy emphasis on Marauders, or go a more mech oriented build.

I mostly have trouble recognizing that the player isn't going muta and is going infestor until I actually SEE the infestor, wherein by the time I try to alter my unit composition Broodlords are close to knocking on my door.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
February 15 2011 08:28 GMT
#115
Zerg shouldn't have a lot of trouble with drops if you're playing well, spread those overlords out, and lots of creep. You should have vision everywhere as a zerg player, and should see drops coming a mile away.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
vojnik
Profile Joined October 2010
Macedonia923 Posts
February 15 2011 09:51 GMT
#116
Thanks Mr Bitter for this awesome guide, gonna implement it in my ZvT for sure
A thing i really want to ask after watching the replays is your larvae spit, do you use some macro? because u have this fast base switch spit mechanic i dont think i can emulate with normal taping and clicking. Can you please enlighten me how you do it?
Thanks a lot in advance
For the swarm!
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
February 15 2011 13:31 GMT
#117
Infestors are quite scary compared to mutas and agreed that they are much harder to deal with when controlled well.

With this style, you should consider getting overlord drops and dropping lings in the Terran base since otherwise Terran can doom push you before you can do anything about it. Even if you have a silly amount of infestors, the mass tank army will crush most types of mass ground.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
thesideshow
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
930 Posts
February 15 2011 13:38 GMT
#118
Thanks mrbitter! I remember experimenting with infestors this awhile back. Thanks for showing how powerful it really is!
OGS:levelchange
zeroISM
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan161 Posts
February 15 2011 13:39 GMT
#119
Thank you very mch MrBitter for this!
I'll be trying this out and implement it into my playstyle.
♘
Super_bricklayer
Profile Joined May 2010
France104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 09:44:23
February 15 2011 13:49 GMT
#120
I've got a question for ya Mr bitter. I feel that their is a weak windows in that opening, i'm not too sure about that, but the push on the xel naga cavern ( against Shoey, about 10/12 minutes ) comfort me about it. It feels like you won't have enough fungal to be safe.

Maybe it's the fast third that could be a macro hatch instead ( you are in need of larvae at that moment ), but did you test maybe one upgrade before lair ?
It could be armour i guess, not too sure. But won't it make your army more solid against those 10 min push ?

Again i don't know if it's the build that should be refine to have some fungal sooner, or maybe have them a little after and put more gaz on your zergling.

Dimaga played a lot with some fast +1 and it works pretty well ( in ZvP, don't know about ZvT ). The upgrades on your replay are not so fast, you catch them after with double evo, but won't it open a windows where you need some more solid defences ?

Baneling is an option you seems to choose, but i don't like it so much, it's pretty gaz heavy, the speed upgrade is needed and the gaz in your army will be gone once the bane die. I would even prefer roaches actually ( pure theory craft i have to say ) for having a little more solid defence early game if needed and most of all, the option of stop putting gas in the army ( cause baneling will take some regularly ). I feel it's kind of a trap to produce baneling if your goal is the fungal.

The all point is how big the marines ball is. Zergling are good against them if the number you are facing isn't too big. Fungal is our response to that, but it feels pretty late...Not sure i'm clear here, my English sucks pretty hard and it's more of a feeling, which is pretty hard to talk about.
I d like too have your thought about that timing ( is it just me ? Maybe infestors come right in time ? ), and how you scout it/answer too it. I'm pretty sure that map distance enter into consideration here too. And now i even feel my question don't have any answer and is pure theory bullshit. ^^

Edit : I have practice it a little with a terran partner, high diamond so i'm not to confident about that, still i'm pretty much convince for the fast +1 armour before lair with that build. It helped me like a lot, as said here Marines take 1 more hit on Ling, [...] Zerglings survive sieged tank shots. It's a gas investment that hit way before lair where you need the pit and 30% of the upgrade before even start producing some infestors.
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