EPTZvT How many mutas?
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brokenSC
United States84 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
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ShindyK2
Korea (South)19 Posts
Assuming you dont make any mistakes because pros usually dont (Nestea vs MVP lulwut) that includes not losing a severe percentage of them and forgetting to magic box. | ||
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whatthefat
United States918 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
with +1 air attack, 25 mutas one-shot a turret with +2 air attack, 23 mutas one-shot a turret These are pretty good goals to set, as once you can quickly pick off turrets you essentially force terran to keep marines/thors next to his expansions, thus giving you map control again. | ||
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whomybuddy
United States620 Posts
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Victim
United States188 Posts
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
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Xylarthen
United States137 Posts
The OP asks about Thors, and whatthefat said it is completely situational, and it is. Like with most every question in SC2 strategy, there is no simple answer. I would say there are three (four) amounts of Mutas you could get: 5-7: to present a threat and then tech-switch or early harass. Many players may go overboard on the defensive upon seeing 5-7 thinking that Mutas 8 to "I'm screwed" are coming soon. 12: a significant threat, and solid map control/harass, probably force air-counters. A single pass can usually destroy several workers before being chased off. 30: 1-shots turrets, quickly dispatches thors, forces ground units as creating air counters usually is innefective at this point unless they already have a decent amount. Not cost effective, but able to engage in a head on fight. (30+: Critical mass.) It just depends on how the game is going, what you're trying to do, and how skilled you are at using Mutas/building your "backup" army while manipulating your flock. | ||
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OzkanTheFlip
United States246 Posts
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Omni17
United States141 Posts
If he decides to get tons of thor just magic box em. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
Edit: More on topic: The rule of thumb when going muta, as I understand it, is to try and maintain a flock of 25-30 mutas so that you can quickly knock out turrets, add-ons, thors, etc. Edit 2: When T is getting lots of thors, though, Infestor with Nerual Parasite is really much better than muta. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On February 05 2011 05:11 Zarahtra wrote: As a terran player, I'm much more afraid of just 5-10 mutas than mass. I mean those 5-10 mutas already give map control, make drops a lot more risky and in general are just annoying and in your face. If you mass, I'll just end up forcing you to come home by attacking you. At that time, if I micro decently, get a few tank shots on the blings, it is very unlikely that you have enough actual army to deal with it. This is when the distance is short to medium, when it's cross position meta fx. I feel there's almost nothing I can do against mass muta if I can't stop the harass early enough via thors. This is my experience as a Z player as well. With a larger flock of mutalisks, you're not accomplishing anything that you can't accomplish with 8-10 mutalisks (unless the Terran refuses to respond to mutalisks with turrets/thors, in which case, build more mutalisks and exploit that). However, mutalisks are gas expensive and supply expensive (they really don't do much DPS per supply). If you compare their gas and supply cost to, say, a ton of zergling/baneling, you'll realize that zerglings and banelings do WAY more damage per supply than mutalisks (for 1 mutalisk you can get 4! banelings). Infestors are also really supply efficient and cost efficient because, if you can keep them alive, you can trade Terran's resources for energy which recharges for free. Not only that, but I find that infestors are decent against thors as well with NP. If Terran overcompensates on anti-mutalisk units (marines + thors), you can usually punish him/hold him off long enough for broodlords. | ||
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innoby
Ireland42 Posts
I play toss, and I open Phoenix FE, muta's are just a less polite way of a zerg GGing... User was warned for this post | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
If you only go for a couple (say 5 to 8) then your goal is to get air control, force turrets and deny drops. After you've forced your opponent to get respond to your mutas, you transition into something else (roaches, infestors, MASS banelings or maybe directly to broodlords). If you get a ton (use most of your gas on mutas, get air upgrades) you force a harder turtle (more turrets, possibly thors) but also you'll HAVE to use your mutas in combat. When you have enough mutas you can overwhelm low numbers of turrets, using the mutas as a counter-attack. The downside of getting a ton of mutas is that you won't be able to spend your gas elsewhere (except the requisite banelings). Balancing muta + roach is awkward gas-wise, you definitely can't afford infestors, and your hive is usually delayed. Generally, going for a ton of mutas is better on larger maps, where the mobility of the muta is more exploitable. Both styles are viable though. Idra usually favors the mass muta styles, where a lot of koreans will transition into ling/baneling/roach on the ground after just a few mutas. | ||
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Twaxter
Canada190 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:17 innoby wrote: Don't build any at all.... I play toss, and I open Phoenix FE, muta's are just a less polite way of a zerg GGing... Thread Title. Called ZvT | ||
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Dhurn
United States53 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:17 innoby wrote: Don't build any at all.... I play toss, and I open Phoenix FE, muta's are just a less polite way of a zerg GGing... Dumb, even if it wasn't specifically ZvT thread. Personally I like to hover in the 8-15 range. Just feels like a good number to run around picking stuff off and be annoying with while not investing a ton of gas. More than that I feel way too vulnerable with that much supply tied up (60+ workers, 3-5 queens, plus mutas and you're already near 100). Certainly mass can be used to great effect, I've seen it both in replays and against me, just comes down to the style of the player and the current situation I guess. | ||
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JBrown08
Canada306 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:17 innoby wrote: Don't build any at all.... I play toss, and I open Phoenix FE, muta's are just a less polite way of a zerg GGing... You're an idiot. Why would you even post here? It is an ZvT article and you have a very low post count. You are not funny, and you added nothing to the post, thanks. . Now onto the topic at hand; I find it depends on the situation. If he is going mass thor then I stop pretty early. Otherwise I mass muta and harrass where he doesn't have turrets. There is always somewhere, and you can dictate where his army is based on this. Then once you have a significant advantage push where he is not. A 2 base terran does not stand a chance against 20 blings going for his expo. | ||
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