On August 11 2012 06:23 PieTaster wrote: Is it more efficient to make a drone first or split first?
I'm sure this has been answered before but I have no idea what page it is so a page # would be great too.
It's been proven that: 1) splitting makes no difference at all, and 2) Zerg should send workers to mine and then make a drone, while for Protoss and Terran it's the other way around However, it's really a miniscule difference. You won't win or lose a game because of it
On August 11 2012 22:38 Ccx55 wrote: Why are probes not penalized for building structures? Drones mutate, thereby the Zerg loses a worker and mining time. SCVs have to be present when a structure is building, costing the Terran mining time and leaving the SCV susceptible to harass.
Probes only lose mining time (much less than SCVs and drones). Are they penalized in a more complex way, perhaps?
The only explanation I can think of is: Drones mutate but Zerg buildings cost less, SCV's have to work on a building but Terrans have the ability to call down MULES, who make up for a lot of the economy. Protoss have CB but they have to choose whether to use it for probes, units, upgrades...
True, but the Zerg still loses the worker (which doesn't only cost money, but time and larvae as well), as well as the mining time of said worker. Terran also has to choose whether to use their OC on their economy, scouting or supply, which is all very vital. Additionally, the Terran also loses the mining time.
Although I agree what you said about CB perhaps prioritizing units or upgrades, that doesn't fit in with early-game when no units or upgrades are available.
Well, nobody but Blizzard could answer this, but think even other way: Terran loses much mining time, but in reward he can place his buildings everywhere, and he can replace them(fly off). Zerg has to place his buildings on creep and lose drone, but he can replenish drones count faster than other races, and his buildings cost less.They also heal over time, and send out some units after dying.
Probes doesn't need to lose mining time, but they got to place something on a power field - so you must go to certain point in map where you got that power field, and if you lose pylon - you lose the building(at least unless powered again). With artosis pylon you can lose even 6 or more gates due to single pylon death, Zer hasn't that problem - if he loses creep(kinda uncommon, considering you don't create any complicated mazes and you generally place your buildings somewhere near hatcheries), he still has quite much time to spread it again, as buildings die slowly, and he can do it either by 'free' tumors(i mean, you can create unlimited amount of tumors out of one), spending this 25 energy from queen(usually you got a bit more stacked on queen in late game), and you can send your overlords to spread creep on this building(i actually sometimes just make 'ninja tech' and hide my building on creep spreaded by OL :D). Yet again, Toss can use Warp Prism to do the same, but he must spend much money on it, and let's face it, OLs are way more common than warp prisms.
Hmm i think this is my third time here so, here's my question: how do i fend off early marine marauder pushes as protoss? Here are my options: -take natural and try to secure it and defend the whole time? -start doing some warp prism harras? you can add any other solution that helps!
On August 13 2012 08:29 TC_Beynbio wrote: Hmm i think this is my third time here so, here's my question: how do i fend off early marine marauder pushes as protoss? Here are my options: -take natural and try to secure it and defend the whole time? -start doing some warp prism harras? you can add any other solution that helps!
Sentries and zealots are pretty key, which is one of the reasons warp prism harass isn't particularly useful, anything you can warp in early will get eaten alive in low numbers by marine marauder without sentries.
So if you're expanding, get mostly sentries and zealots after your 1-2 initial stalkers and stay at your ramp until warpgate research is done, if he tries to push up the ramp, cut his forces in half and kill them, if he waits too long push out with your first warp-in which should definitely happen before the nexus is at any risk of dying.
If you're getting a robotics facility again just cut him in half at the ramp with a forcefield and wait for immortals before you push out, it's generally considered a bit too safe these days, but if you're really uncomfortable taking an expansion then it's your next best option.
There are some other options, but the above are the most solid ones.
Why won't teamliquid record the entire cast for the tsl4?(rather than just the games) Seems if you don't see it live you are ****ed. It starting monday morning seems weird to me too, like if you have a life or job you are ****ed again. Sorry just curious and upset.
Hi guys. I dont understand...since patch 1.5.0, where do I go if I want to download Dargelins micro trainer or Green Tea AI? Is it Custom or Arcade?
Secondly, I have tried downloading one, but it did not show up in my single player versus AI....so in other words I can only play it custom/online, where I have lag.
Before patch 1.5.0 I was able to findi t, download it, so that I could play versus AI (Offline)
Or perhaps this is still just another bug from Blizzard?
On August 13 2012 00:25 Zrana wrote: As zerg, i have a hard time knowing when protoss is going to all-in or push, or take an expansion. Both require very different responses.
If i scout the toss base with an overlord i might see some gates and a robo. Naturally (because its ladder) i assume its a 2base robo all-in and start pumping roach/ling, but then he might just expand at 9-10minutes and if i attack his third with what i have its a bit risky as i might not break it.
Are there any clues that tell you toss is thinking of taking a third rather than 2basing?
# of gateways helps, counting his units helps too, most importantly always keeping vision of his 3rd base to see when he starts to take it. Pylons on your side of the map tend to mean he wants to attack.
Personally I roach ling aggro every game whether hes getting a 3rd or not.
On August 13 2012 00:54 TrippSC2 wrote: What is a good example of a VOD or replay of the 6 queen defensive opening in ZvT? I'd like to watch it and try to adopt that style.
machine was coaching msspyte on some talkshow thing with this asian guy. I dunno what its called but the build was very informative. It was 6 queen opening, after 6 queens macro hatch, 52 supply 4x gas, 3rd base, ling speed, lair, 1/1 ups, bling speed, few mutas, then a 200/200 3-4 base 2/2 upgrade ling bling attack.
Hope you can find the vod as i couldnt in searching a min or two.
On August 13 2012 00:54 TrippSC2 wrote: What is a good example of a VOD or replay of the 6 queen defensive opening in ZvT? I'd like to watch it and try to adopt that style.
machine was coaching msspyte on some talkshow thing with this asian guy. I dunno what its called but the build was very informative. It was 6 queen opening, after 6 queens macro hatch, 52 supply 4x gas, 3rd base, ling speed, lair, 1/1 ups, bling speed, few mutas, then a 200/200 3-4 base 2/2 upgrade ling bling attack.
Hope you can find the vod as i couldnt in searching a min or two.
I think this is the vod you're referring to, it's ChanmanV's Pro Corner:
I was watching whitera on a PvZ the other day do wg first into nexus into 5 gate I believe. would like to know a bit more about this build. could any one pls let me know where I can find the BO or any vods of this.
How do the pros typically control their groupings? I know that WorkerProductionUnit is 4, then production facilities-5-6-7 then upgrades8-9 is fairly standard for buildings, but I'm more curious about units. (If those building ones are wrong, feel free to let me know)
Terran- For example, MMM - Is it typical to do Marines/Mauraders as one group and then Medivacs as another? When watching the play they always move as a group, but the medivacs don't get away. Additionally, can you tell me how to make things follow? I expect that is what is done with the medivacs but I can't quite get it to work.
Protoss I've been doing Zealots/Sentries as a group and Stalkers/Immortals/Collosi as another - is this ideal?
Zerg - well I basically throw roaches/lings in a group, then infestors in one, and air units in a third.
On August 13 2012 18:47 BadBorz wrote: Hi everyone, i would like to know what should i do when i'm zerg and a protoss put pylon and canon in my b2. there is a replay. http://terranimba.com/replay/DDSVRZw5wFyidTQjE
Im assuming your build is the standard 14 pool 16 hatch Get a drone to look over your natural once you hit 16 supply, if you see a pylon set up for a cannon rush pull 3 more drones and start attacking the pylon, and then the cannon once the probe starts building it use your inital drone that scouted the pylon to attack the probe so it can't get more cannons down as easily All while this is happening, make an overlord and 4 lings when they pop If the cannon gets up mass about 10-12 lings and try killing it off PM me if you still have problems
On August 13 2012 23:31 galaxybird wrote: How do the pros typically control their groupings? I know that WorkerProductionUnit is 4, then production facilities-5-6-7 then upgrades8-9 is fairly standard for buildings, but I'm more curious about units. (If those building ones are wrong, feel free to let me know)
I actually have 1-3 units, 4 raxes, 5 factories, 6 starport, 7 upgrades, 8 ccs, 9 & 0 situational. I just do F1 to find any idle workers to build things.
Terran- For example, MMM - Is it typical to do Marines/Mauraders as one group and then Medivacs as another? When watching the play they always move as a group, but the medivacs don't get away. Additionally, can you tell me how to make things follow? I expect that is what is done with the medivacs but I can't quite get it to work.
I think it is typical for Marines and Mauraders as one group, because they both have stim in common, and no different abilities, so it would be a waste of a group to split them up. I do, at least, place them in the same group. Medivacs I have in a separate group, especially if I'm planning lots of sneaky drops. If I'm just going to a+click to their base, then I might also just have them in the same group as my MM.
On August 13 2012 23:31 galaxybird wrote: How do the pros typically control their groupings? I know that WorkerProductionUnit is 4, then production facilities-5-6-7 then upgrades8-9 is fairly standard for buildings, but I'm more curious about units. (If those building ones are wrong, feel free to let me know)
I actually have 1-3 units, 4 raxes, 5 factories, 6 starport, 7 upgrades, 8 ccs, 9 & 0 situational. I just do F1 to find any idle workers to build things.
Terran- For example, MMM - Is it typical to do Marines/Mauraders as one group and then Medivacs as another? When watching the play they always move as a group, but the medivacs don't get away. Additionally, can you tell me how to make things follow? I expect that is what is done with the medivacs but I can't quite get it to work.
I think it is typical for Marines and Mauraders as one group, because they both have stim in common, and no different abilities, so it would be a waste of a group to split them up. I do, at least, place them in the same group. Medivacs I have in a separate group, especially if I'm planning lots of sneaky drops. If I'm just going to a+click to their base, then I might also just have them in the same group as my MM.
Sorry I only kind of know for terran. :/
When you say "I just do F1 to find any idle workers to build things." - I get the idle workers, but when you say build things do you mean more units? or more buildings?
And if you choose to put the MM in the same group with medivacs, how do you avoid your medivacs arriving far in advance of your MM?
On August 13 2012 23:31 galaxybird wrote: How do the pros typically control their groupings? I know that WorkerProductionUnit is 4, then production facilities-5-6-7 then upgrades8-9 is fairly standard for buildings, but I'm more curious about units. (If those building ones are wrong, feel free to let me know)
I actually have 1-3 units, 4 raxes, 5 factories, 6 starport, 7 upgrades, 8 ccs, 9 & 0 situational. I just do F1 to find any idle workers to build things.
Terran- For example, MMM - Is it typical to do Marines/Mauraders as one group and then Medivacs as another? When watching the play they always move as a group, but the medivacs don't get away. Additionally, can you tell me how to make things follow? I expect that is what is done with the medivacs but I can't quite get it to work.
I think it is typical for Marines and Mauraders as one group, because they both have stim in common, and no different abilities, so it would be a waste of a group to split them up. I do, at least, place them in the same group. Medivacs I have in a separate group, especially if I'm planning lots of sneaky drops. If I'm just going to a+click to their base, then I might also just have them in the same group as my MM.
Sorry I only kind of know for terran. :/
When you say "I just do F1 to find any idle workers to build things." - I get the idle workers, but when you say build things do you mean more units? or more buildings?
And if you choose to put the MM in the same group with medivacs, how do you avoid your medivacs arriving far in advance of your MM?
Thanks!
1. He means he doesn't hotkey any workers, just leaves them idle and when he needs a building he hits f1 to quick jump to an idle worker. Personally I don't even use f1; I use 6 for nexus and just double tap 6 and grab a probe that's returning minerals since I think it's sloppy to just leave a worker doing nothing but constructing buildings when needed, moreso for Protoss since probes spend not more than a second warping buildings in. It's like having 6 acolytes as UD in War3 2. Controlling these units will typically take a lot of keypresses, so be prepared. For me as Protoss, for example, going from 1 base to another my stalkers will get way ahead of my zealots/sentries. I make them attack move, go back to base to manage there, and if I'm lazy just use the group hotkey and a-move to a point behind the stalkers but in front of the zealots so that the zealots move forward but stlakers move back. Normally though I would box the stalkers and move them behind the others and switch back to them a lot. You should do the same, try not to attack move across the map and ignore your units until they get there; a lot can go wrong doing that.
Terran- For example, MMM - Is it typical to do Marines/Mauraders as one group and then Medivacs as another? When watching the play they always move as a group, but the medivacs don't get away. Additionally, can you tell me how to make things follow? I expect that is what is done with the medivacs but I can't quite get it to work.
[B] 2. Not having medivacs on a hotkey and using "A" (attack) or "M" (move) + shift click to follow your bio: If you select a medivac and right click on a marine it will pick up the marine. Now, as I'm sure a lot of you guys know, if you A click or M click one of your own units, the medivac will follow that unit around until it dies. If you A or M + shift click a bunch of your own units, then all of those units will have to die for your medivacs to stop following.
With this technique you get a lot better healing effectiveness while stutter stepping since your medivacs aren't in the same control group as your bio. The cons, imo, are: 1) Every time you get a new medivac you have to shift click your bio., 2) It is quite likely that the units that you shift clicked will die at some point, resulting in your medivacs not following your bio. and 3) When your medivacs are on "follow" or "attack", they move a lot more bunched up and are a lot more vulnerable to storms, fungal, thors ... any kind of AoE. A small benefit is that it is more difficult for your enemy to assess your medivac count and possibly more difficult to feedback - but I haven't tested this.
EPT
