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On May 24 2012 21:49 lamehater wrote:
So, I always hear the casters say that dropping a scan instead of a MULE costs the player money, or rather that it's "losing" money. I know that you won't get the money as fast, but isn't that kind of a bad expression? It doesn't actually cost anything, you just slow down the mineral income, right?
Another way to think about it:
If you have fewer minerals to work with at the beginning of the game, you have less ability to secure more minerals later in the game or deny the economy of your opponent. So slowing income is really a loss of money.
edit: In this context, a scan can be even more costly than even the amount a mule would mine. However, don't throw out scans because of this, scouting is obviously important!
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So I think this is actually one of my first posts here. I would really like to get better at StarCraft 2, but I suffer from a disease that hampers my ability to have good APM and micro abilities since it affects my hands and arms. What is a race that is more forgiving with APM and micro?
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@moQbara,
Thank you very much for linking that.
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I am looking for a build/style, that Socke used against Idra (not sure though) in MLG Winter Championships. It was basically something that looked like Bisu build in PvZ - phoenixes to kill off overseers and DTs underneath them. It seemed so cool and I would like to try it, does anyone have a link for that build or something?
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Where would I go to update myself on the 2V2 metagame? Just found a partner to play with, and we've been trying to find something more in-depth than the "3rax+4gate" the liquipedia article offers.
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On May 24 2012 21:57 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 21:49 lamehater wrote:
So, I always hear the casters say that dropping a scan instead of a MULE costs the player money, or rather that it's "losing" money. I know that you won't get the money as fast, but isn't that kind of a bad expression? It doesn't actually cost anything, you just slow down the mineral income, right? Staying on 6 workers all game also doesn't actually "lose" you money, either, you just get it slower than if you have 70. In the context of the game, it's perfectly reasonable to refer to something that reduces your rate of income as having cost you money.
Hmm.. Fair enough, I guess you're right.
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PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me.
What would you recommend I do? I went 1 gate expand. I had went 2 stalkers to pick off some marines, but just based off the timing and positioning, that wasn't possible. I'm not sure how to deal with the quantity of units they can make so fast.
I'm a high diamond toss, this guy was masters.
Thanks
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On May 26 2012 00:26 Ripebananaa wrote:
PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me.
What would you recommend I do? I went 1 gate expand. I had went 2 stalkers to pick off some marines, but just based off the timing and positioning, that wasn't possible. I'm not sure how to deal with the quantity of units they can make so fast.
I'm a high diamond toss, this guy was masters.
Thanks
i'm master terran and i do it from time to time. this build is risky cause u trade pure agression for delayed tech//upgrades//third. so basically when u see it (problem is its hard to see it unless it is comming) u should start using all chrono on ur wg's to get as much stalkers as u can get + various number of sentries (it depends on map) but minimal ammount is 3 (vs such thing guardian shield is ABSOLUTE MUST) and getting 2-3 sentries prevents from being sniped.
u should get more sentry //less stalker if its map with easy nat to defend with ff (shakuras).
holding without probe loss is absolute must, if you do it you are already ahead. it also depends what bo u did, sometimes it might be hard if u are ultra greedy (tons of probes + fast upgrades) but still on most maps u should always keep stalker in front of his base, and when u see it comming u have time for 2 warpins ( assuming u start using chrono on wg's)
and micro is most important part in holding it. try avoid pulling probes unless its only way to safe you from gg. fair amount of stalker + guardian shield, and on certain maps ff (but good players wont do that build on maps with easy to defend nat) and some zeals should do the trick.
after u defend situation is very easy. it all depends what path you went. if its robo get 2 colo and counter push him (he delayed tech so he wont have many//any vikings). if u went gateway army path its going to be standart pvt with the diffrence that t is going to have delayed medivac//ghost//upgrades (you can abuse that and take ur third//deny his)
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It has probably been asked already but are Spring Arena 1 replays going to get released? If so, when?
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I'm a frustrated terran who tries to 1-rax FE every game vs protoss. What are the real openings/early game "advantage" builds that I can do?
This one looks like a good idea:
On May 26 2012 00:26 Ripebananaa wrote:
PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me
What about 1-1-1?
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Thanks a lot for your input, Noddie 
Snoodles, if you just want to win games, sure, 1-1-1 all you want. But you won't get better, and it's a very frustrating thing to play against. I don't see it much anymore, but when I do it feels like the game timer is a ticking bomb to my death.
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On May 26 2012 01:00 Snoodles wrote:I'm a frustrated terran who tries to 1-rax FE every game vs protoss. What are the real openings/early game "advantage" builds that I can do? This one looks like a good idea: Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 00:26 Ripebananaa wrote:
PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me
What about 1-1-1?
2rax, reactor -> techlab, is also possible, but it's risky considering the rush distances on the ladder maps, and your opponent has to play kinda greedy for it to work.
You can also try 14CC, but then you might just die if your opponent doesn't go for a FE build and instead 3gate expos, or just 4gates.
It's kinda common knowledge that 1/1/1 on one base is all-in unless you do shitloads of economic damage. If you get scouted, like any good Protoss will, he'll pull some kind of 1gate FE, and if you don't kill a lot of stuff you'll be behind economically, and then he'll just kill you if you try to expand out of it.
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On May 26 2012 01:00 Snoodles wrote:I'm a frustrated terran who tries to 1-rax FE every game vs protoss. What are the real openings/early game "advantage" builds that I can do? This one looks like a good idea: Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 00:26 Ripebananaa wrote:
PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me
What about 1-1-1?
1rax gasless is viable, are you doing it right? The only way you can make a 1rax as viable as it should be is if you deny scouting and you don't let protoss see that you haven't taken your gas. If they can't scout you they can't play greedy. You should also work towards a good timing, whether its pure marine, 2 medivac, etc. so that you can try and seize some advantage over the protoss at about 9-11 minutes.
You also need to read the protoss correctly, since a lot of what they are doing determines when you set your bunker(s) up at your natural
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so far terran openings vs protoss looks like :
cc first - ultra greedy, doesnt really give that much advtantage over standart 1 rax gasless expand, and you are very vulnerable to any proxy gateway or chronoed zealot. imo not good opening.
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gasless fe
into 5 rax pressure "Ripebananaa" had problem with it few posts above. its decent build balancing beetwen getting very strong eco, very strong early army, but downside is lack of tech. if you can win//do enough damage you should be ahead, but if u fail to do any damage its kinda over.
i reccomend doing it when ur not confident with even foot mid//late game. on maps with wide natural. metalopolis for example.
into 3rax 2 gaz
its most standart opening. balancing beetwen strong eco and medium tech. downside is relative lack of army, so you are vulnerable to any 4wg push//warp prism play.
not much i can say. its best build for "training" since it gives you safest entrance into midgame (which imo is terran strong part in tvp) care should be taken vs 1 base play (getting bunkers, pulling scv's is must)
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2 rax
reactor//techlab.
it used to be my favourite opening during times when protoss were greedy. basically u get very strong 5 rine 1 mara or 7 rine 2 mara force early game. key is to kill protoss which is greedy (lot of probes//lack of army) or teching to some sneaky stuff (like fast dt, 1 gate fast robo), or to at least kill his expansion + bunker his ramp and expo urself. care should be taken cause it can be punished on long distance map + balanced eco//army build order from toss side.
i dont reccomend it if you want improve since its reacting on opponent mistakes, and that should be not your mindset for 1v1 (it should be like this : i need to get most of my build order in most situations and adapt : thats why 1rax fe in current map pool is imo best)
other variations involve getting 3 rax (2 proxied - which is kind of allin, but works good on certain maps (i like it on ohana)
or marauder concussive push
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hellion drop with marine push.
idea is to play like 1/1/1 (and let it being scout) and then surprise p with 4 hellion// 8 marine push. most p will expect 1/1/1 and wont be prepare for earlier attack. idea is
1)drop his main with hellions. that way he pulls back his army to main, and transfers probes to expo, and a while after u should strike with ur 8 rines into expo killing probes there + those transferred
u should expand behind this.
its good build, but requires a bit of luck, and denying map control early game from toss
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fast banshee.
not much to say here, key is not to get scouted + hope p wont get robo. its high risk medium gain situation. (Sometimes it can win games, even on pro level) but i not reccomend it for training
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1/1/1 not much to say here since it was discussed to death.
personally i dislike this build.
soo as you can see there are plenty of viable terran openings and i think i made WAY to big post :
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On May 26 2012 00:54 Karpfen wrote:
It has probably been asked already but are Spring Arena 1 replays going to get released? If so, when?
Give it 3-4 weeks.
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On May 26 2012 01:00 Snoodles wrote:I'm a frustrated terran who tries to 1-rax FE every game vs protoss. What are the real openings/early game "advantage" builds that I can do? This one looks like a good idea: Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 00:26 Ripebananaa wrote:
PVT. The terran went 1 rax expand, then dropped 4 more rax. They were all naked, and just kept churning out marines. The attack hit at 8:00, with 22 marines at my base, 30 in total (rallyd), after the 30th marine he added 3 tech labs, 2 reactors and 2 engineering bays. Now, this didn't matter because his marines killed me
What about 1-1-1?
I don't know what level you play at but naked 4rax pushes has been around for a really long time and has mostly died away because of how easy they are to hold off (especially if the natural is choked off). Honestly, I don't even lose a single unit holding these off. If you are able to pick off a couple of sentries/stalkers then this build paid for itself. Otherwise, you just threw away a bunch of marines for free plus your tech (most notably stim) is quite delayed because you opted to do this push.
Regarding that particular quote, I have to say 4rax pushes usually hit a bit earlier but ofc it depends on spawn positioning.
1-1-1 is still a threat, but is completely dependent on execution. The standard 1-1-1's that I face in mid-masters are a joke to hold off since I just simply have too many units after a 1gate fe. The greedier the 1gate fe, the easier it is to hold 1-1-1. Even the least greedy variation of the 1gate fe can still hold the 1-1-1 quite decently. But to emphasize again, the strength of the 1-1-1 lies in the execution. Oh and this is obviously all-in, not sure if it's what you're looking for.
1-rax FE is still the best opening in TvP, you shouldn't stop. You can look for different transitions after the gassless fe, but the gassless fe itself should stay.
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Hi, when you send a unit on patrol, does it autoattack or keeps it course when sees enemy unit? Thank you!!
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On May 26 2012 17:53 Mata wrote:
Hi, when you send a unit on patrol, does it autoattack or keeps it course when sees enemy unit? Thank you!!
It does auto attack.
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On May 26 2012 19:30 GeeBee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 17:53 Mata wrote:
Hi, when you send a unit on patrol, does it autoattack or keeps it course when sees enemy unit? Thank you!! It does auto attack.
Workers do not.
But all other units does.
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EPT
