EPTand if this is the case, would an unupgraded queen do 0 damage to units that have 4 armor? (Since queen ground does damage with 2 4 damage attacks...
edit - read up a bit on it, there's an 0.5 min damage per attack regardless of armor
Simple Questions Simple Answers - Page 627
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iokke
United States1179 Posts
and if this is the case, would an unupgraded queen do 0 damage to units that have 4 armor? (Since queen ground does damage with 2 4 damage attacks... edit - read up a bit on it, there's an 0.5 min damage per attack regardless of armor | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:12 iokke wrote: Ah ok, odd considering that +1 attack = +10% attack dmg. and if this is the case, would an unupgraded queen do 0 damage to units that have 4 armor? (Since queen ground does damage with 2 4 damage attacks...) If your unit does 10 damage and you get +1 attack, then it's indeed a 10% increase. Unless the queen does bonus damage against armored or something, then There MAY be some units that gain more than 1 armor per upgrade, but I don't think so. If you look at units at liquipedia or something you'll see their armor stats like 3 (+1). The number within the parantheses is how much armor they gain per upgrade level. EDIT: There's a minimum damage of 0.5. Armor can't decrease damage below this. | ||
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iokke
United States1179 Posts
Attack upgrades from what I read give additional damage to each unit (around 10% increase, but values vary for every unit). Anyway thanks for answering and sry for doubting you:D it just seemed silly how this way armor upgrades are super effective towards high speed attacks and how little they do vs high damage attacks. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:26 iokke wrote: Immortals get more then +1 dmg attack increase. I think you are right about armor, just add the fact that there is minimum damage dealt regardless of armor. Attack upgrades from what I read give additional damage to each unit (around 10% increase, but values vary for every unit). Anyway thanks for answering and sry for doubting you:D it just seemed silly how this way armor upgrades are super effective towards high speed attacks and how little they do vs high damage attacks. But on the other hand, think about how much a +1 dmg upgrade gives a marine  | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:38 TheExodus wrote: But on the other hand, think about how much a +1 dmg upgrade gives a marine Imagine how much +armor gives against marines. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Imagine how much +armor gives against marines. My point exactly; different races, different priorities, balance. | ||
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Salts
Canada32 Posts
I've tried a couple things, like fast stargates and heavy gateway play, but even then I just get overwhelmed by the number of directions I can choose to go. I'm wondering if there's a guide anywhere on TL compiling some of the most popular/powerful styles of FFE that I can play with to get a better understanding of what I can or should focus on once my cybercore finishes. | ||
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MIDGETmuffin
1 Post
-regards MIDGETmuffin | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
 What am I supposed to do? It seems so easy to be caught out of position. I even scout around 8-9 to check for the starport or heavy rax and grab blink early on in case of reactor starport but they always scan for my obs, or catch me out of position somehow. If they don't drop me at all I just roll them every time. Even Parting seems to have had a lot of difficulty with this on Metropolis vs ForGG. | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
On May 11 2012 10:23 Misanthrope wrote: I really have no idea how to deal with a terran who splits his army in PvT. I feel like if i split my army at all they can just run in with a full army instead of dropping to take advantage of my being spread out, and then its too late. Even if I add a cannon or two per base they just fly around or even over them and its gg. What am I supposed to do? It seems so easy to be caught out of position. I even scout around 8-9 to check for the starport or heavy rax and grab blink early on in case of reactor starport but they always scan for my obs, or catch me out of position somehow. If they don't drop me at all I just roll them every time. Even Parting seems to have had a lot of difficulty with this on Metropolis vs ForGG. Depends on preference. There's 3 main ways, basically. 1. Scattered templar to feedback 'vacs. You need good map awareness and reactions to get the spells off before they drop on top of them, though. You can also place them there while they build to storm-level energy, then rotate them over to your army and replace them. 2. Blink stalkers, as you mentioned. Instead of leaving them with the army, though, leave them in likely drop locations, and blink them back to the army if you need them (ie, you see him coming across the middle of the map) 3. Warp-ins. Chargelots cam deal with drops in small numbers, long enough to let your stalkers arrive. Make sure you bring in enough zealots before warping in stalkers, though, or the stalkers will just get DPS'd down. | ||
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
When's a good time for the first overlord sacrifice in ZvT? edit: maybe can help with this: Hi everyone, im in bronse league and im hoping to improve my gameplay but i have a problem with my macro and/or micro. I cant keep them balanced can anyone give me tips??? -regards MIDGETmuffin Basically macro and micro share the same purpose; get more units/keep units alive. It's much the same thing. In general it's much easier to macro than to micro. By this i mean in terms of the effect it has on your game. You can focus really hard on keeping a few units alive, but really your time is better spent pressing 5aaaa (or something), and suddenly you're up 4 units than you would have been. Obviously the ideal is to both macro and micro, but keep in mind the fact that due to you (most likely) not having the time to do both, do the one which will get the most benefit. Like moving anti-air to guard your mineral line vs mutalisks/banshees will give you way more benefit than just focusing on worker production to counter the loss. Basically there will be times when you *need* to micro (protoss forcefield+storm, terran splitting and kiting, zerg surrounding, guiding banelings, fungal), and these depend on your race and the matchup and you'll come to know them over time. The rest of the time macro is king, and you should try to accomplish the army control side of things with as few actions as possible. | ||
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tarpman
Canada723 Posts
OK that wasn't really as brief as I meant it to be... anyway. So things are peachy if the terran takes a fast third, and holding off two or four hellions isn't a problem. The two Terran responses I'm having trouble with are a lot of hellions (often with blue flame), or a large two base marine/tank push, before baneling speed completes. The latter I think would be OK if I already had baneling speed when it arrived, and so I'm trying to tighten up my build to make that happen. A large group of hellions is a big problem for me, especially on maps with an open third like Daybreak or Cloud Kingdom. The simple question I meant to ask is: when taking a fast third against Terran, is there a small adjustment I can make to my build to have an easier time defending Terran's two base aggression, or do I need to be making some more fundamental changes to my ZvT? or should I have posted this as a [H] thread with replays? >_> Bonus simple question: which base should be taken as a third on Cloud Kingdom? I have been trying both and haven't found it to make much of a difference. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2594 Posts
On May 11 2012 09:29 MIDGETmuffin wrote: Hi everyone, im in bronse league and im hoping to improve my gameplay but i have a problem with my macro and/or micro. I cant keep them balanced can anyone give me tips??? -regards MIDGETmuffin In bronze league, I would very seriously recommend not actually microing at all. Not a joke. Learn a simple build for each matchup, execute the build as well as you can, and when you've got a big army, just a-move. This isn't because micro isn't important, but because macro is so much more important that spending attention on it is actually going to be detremental to your play until macroing correctly has gotten to be second nature. As a general rule, microing your units should be something you're doing during the windows of time during which you don't need to macro anything, and until you've really got your macro down you'll likely end up missing production cycles and getting supply blocked because you're giving your units too much attention. And because your opponents' macro will be so bad in the bronze league, if you only pay attention to macro you will have such a unit lead that anything more complicated than a-moving is really not going to be necessary in the vast majority of cases. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 11 2012 09:29 MIDGETmuffin wrote: Hi everyone, im in bronse league and im hoping to improve my gameplay but i have a problem with my macro and/or micro. I cant keep them balanced can anyone give me tips??? -regards MIDGETmuffin You need to completely IGNORE micro for the next couple of weeks. Spend your time on producing workers, units and teching. Having a 100 food army at 10 minutes thanks to good macro is way better than saving four stalkers in your 30-food army by spotless blink micro. | ||
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Efficient
Australia32 Posts
I'm a gold league terran and in TvP I'm trying to execute what is always referred to in tournaments as the 'standard' way to open in the match up. I can't find a direct link (which is one of the problems I have) but it goes along the lines of: Build 1 rax Build a CC Get 3 more rax Then plod along so that at around 10 minutes you have stim, +1, a bunch of marines and a some of medivacs so that you can go and put some pressure on the protoss. I am having serious trouble refining the build because I don't know anything more specific about this build than what I just listed. I was wondering if some of the masters level players in this thread could give me a few dot points to aim for: For example At 10 minutes you should have x workers Or even better post a replay of themselves/ a pro doing something similar to what I just described. PS: I have tried very hard to find answers to this question in the forums and on liquipedia but to no avail. I apologise if the answer is listed in an obvious location. Also in regards to finding replays I do explore the replay packs that get posted on TL, however I keep finding they showcase the players doing something novel. After all who is going to post a replay of a boring, standard game. | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
On May 11 2012 18:25 Efficient wrote: Hi TL I'm a gold league terran and in TvP I'm trying to execute what is always referred to in tournaments as the 'standard' way to open in the match up. I can't find a direct link (which is one of the problems I have) but it goes along the lines of: Build 1 rax Build a CC Get 3 more rax Then plod along so that at around 10 minutes you have stim, +1, a bunch of marines and a some of medivacs so that you can go and put some pressure on the protoss. I am having serious trouble refining the build because I don't know anything more specific about this build than what I just listed. I was wondering if some of the masters level players in this thread could give me a few dot points to aim for: For example At 10 minutes you should have x workers Or even better post a replay of themselves/ a pro doing something similar to what I just described. PS: I have tried very hard to find answers to this question in the forums and on liquipedia but to no avail. I apologise if the answer is listed in an obvious location. Also in regards to finding replays I do explore the replay packs that get posted on TL, however I keep finding they showcase the players doing something novel. After all who is going to post a replay of a boring, standard game. Have you read/seen Filter's benchmark training system? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787 It's not specific to TvP really, but it's hugely useful to all players (I main toss and this has my terran on an almost equal level after just a couple weeks). The basic build is applicable to any matchup, and it's also a valuable training tool to make you better. What you're describing appears in the platinum videos, I believe, but if you do try his stuff I would strongly recommend starting from the bottom up, even if you are able to blow right through it in one try. | ||
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imalama
France7 Posts
On May 11 2012 07:31 Salts wrote: I gave up SC2 for school, which means I haven't played much since last summer. I was completely lost in PvZ until I learned that FFEing had become the norm on just about every map, and after practicing I can now execute the skeleton of the build with high accuracy on any given map. The problem is that I just don't know what to do after I have my nat up and running. I have two bases, a gateway and a cybernetics core - the build has so much potential, I just don't know where to begin experimenting. I've tried a couple things, like fast stargates and heavy gateway play, but even then I just get overwhelmed by the number of directions I can choose to go. I'm wondering if there's a guide anywhere on TL compiling some of the most popular/powerful styles of FFE that I can play with to get a better understanding of what I can or should focus on once my cybercore finishes. timing attacks after a FFE are pretty good, here is a nice compilation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477 I have a question too: PvT: I 1 gate expand, the T expands with marines and bunkers. Later on when I get an observer to his base I see 3 starports with tech labs. What should I do? | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 11 2012 19:38 imalama wrote: timing attacks after a FFE are pretty good, here is a nice compilation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477 I have a question too: PvT: I 1 gate expand, the T expands with marines and bunkers. Later on when I get an observer to his base I see 3 starports with tech labs. What should I do? You get a few more observers to cover your bases and either add on stalkers or stargates of your own for phoenix. You also don't go DT. He's either making banshees, ravens or both, so make sure you get observers out and don't go for any cloaky stuff. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2594 Posts
On May 11 2012 20:03 TheExodus wrote: You get a few more observers to cover your bases and either add on stalkers or stargates of your own for phoenix. You also don't go DT. He's either making banshees, ravens or both, so make sure you get observers out and don't go for any cloaky stuff. I strongly recommend getting Phoenix. I find it very difficult to handle mass Banshee with just Stalkers. | ||
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Schaudenfraud
United States38 Posts
Where should I put injects in priority at said part of game? Right now it's not #1 in my priority list, it's: #1 focusing on unit management and upgrades/large scale battle micro #2 Harass or scout depending on what's needed #3 creep spread #4 injects | ||
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