On October 20 2011 20:53 warismoney wrote: I have Problems with my Scouting as Protoss (top silver). Sometimes i want to scout my opponents Base for check his tech. If he has many turrets, or spore crawler what happens sometimes im not able to check what he is teching to because my observer dies immediately.
He places his turrets around his base, doesent matter from wich direction i try to get in, the observer dies ^^
Can u give me some tipps for that?
Well one thing you can do, instead of scouting the tech itself, is to scout the unit composition. Unlike Zerg, terran doesn't make a tech building and then can instantly make 10 of this units. So if he's going mech for example, and you didnt manage to get inside his base to see his factories, you can scout his army and see a few hellions and thor numbers growing. Other than that, its hard to scout if he put turrets all around his base...but I mean that is quite a heavy investment don't you think! Imagine putting cannons all around your base .
Finally, you can use hallucinate. It's an upgrade that cost money, but at least with a 1-2 hallucinate Phoenix you can fly over his turrets and lose one and scout his base, and it only cost you some energy.
On October 20 2011 16:32 NrGmonk wrote: Can anyone teach me how to make a graphic similar to the one in this thread? I'm trying to rewrite an updated version of that guide, but can't figure out the best way to make that graphic.
In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
On October 20 2011 23:17 cleecks wrote: In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
Never ever cancel a pool that early for no reason.. Normally when going 14/14 you don't need to scout at all, scouting at 9 is quite a lot of minerals wasted. With your first lings you scout opponent and see what he is doing.
But if your plan is to go hatch first when possible then you may scout at 9 and then depending if there is early pool or not, drop hatch. If you see something like 6-12 pool then go pool first. But again, on some maps you won't be in time even with 9 scout, so you gonna need to make a decision before reaching opponent.
On October 20 2011 23:17 cleecks wrote: In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
Never ever cancel a pool that early for no reason.. Normally when going 14/14 you don't need to scout at all, scouting at 9 is quite a lot of minerals wasted. With your first lings you scout opponent and see what he is doing.
But if your plan is to go hatch first when possible then you may scout at 9 and then depending if there is early pool or not, drop hatch. If you see something like 6-12 pool then go pool first. But again, on some maps you won't be in time even with 9 scout, so you gonna need to make a decision before reaching opponent.
I know the scout isn't really required with 14/14 to hold off cheese, however I do manage to block/delay my opponent's attempt at hatch first a lot of times, if they even decide to go through with it with my drone being at their base. Besides, it allows me to move my overlords quickly in the attackpaths/natural, making me scout and react faster to anything he's planning on doing. And like you said yourself, if I do happen to scout my opponent on time and see no early pool, I can decide to hatch first myself.
Back to my question though, you mentioned the poolcanceling is a bad idea, but you didn't really tell me what else I should do in response. If I go through with 14/14 vs a hatch first I just feel very behind because my hatch is just bound to be up a lot later than his, losing out on a lot of larvae in the process. Should i just normally expand at 21 supply anyway? Or should I cut some drones to get my hatch up faster? To me it feels like wasting 50 minerals on a cancel is worth the earlier expand, compared to a regular expand on around 21 supply.
On October 20 2011 23:17 cleecks wrote: In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
Never ever cancel a pool that early for no reason.. Normally when going 14/14 you don't need to scout at all, scouting at 9 is quite a lot of minerals wasted. With your first lings you scout opponent and see what he is doing.
But if your plan is to go hatch first when possible then you may scout at 9 and then depending if there is early pool or not, drop hatch. If you see something like 6-12 pool then go pool first. But again, on some maps you won't be in time even with 9 scout, so you gonna need to make a decision before reaching opponent.
I know the scout isn't really required with 14/14 to hold off cheese, however I do manage to block/delay my opponent's attempt at hatch first a lot of times, if they even decide to go through with it with my drone being at their base. Besides, it allows me to move my overlords quickly in the attackpaths/natural, making me scout and react faster to anything he's planning on doing.
Back to my question though, you mentioned the poolcanceling is a bad idea, but you didn't really tell me what else I should do in response. If I go through with 14/14 vs a hatch first I just feel very behind because my hatch is just bound to be up a lot later than his, losing out on a lot of larvae in the process. Should i just normally expand at 21 supply anyway? Or should I cut some drones to get my hatch up faster? To me it feels like wasting 50 minerals on a cancel is worth the earlier expand, compared to a regular expand on around 21 supply.
If you decided to go with 9 scout then your opening should depend on opponents opening. If you see 14/14 then go 15 hatch, if you see FE then go 15 hatch, if you see early pool then drop your own pool ASAP.
Also 14/14 is not really behind vs. hatch first imo. From what I've seen the one who goes hatch first needs to invest more into defense, because he does not know what you are doing. Opening with 14/14 and hatch on 21 and then pumping drones because you have map control is good idea. You can try it yourself and later compare drone count.
On October 20 2011 23:17 cleecks wrote: In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
Never ever cancel a pool that early for no reason.. Normally when going 14/14 you don't need to scout at all, scouting at 9 is quite a lot of minerals wasted. With your first lings you scout opponent and see what he is doing.
But if your plan is to go hatch first when possible then you may scout at 9 and then depending if there is early pool or not, drop hatch. If you see something like 6-12 pool then go pool first. But again, on some maps you won't be in time even with 9 scout, so you gonna need to make a decision before reaching opponent.
I know the scout isn't really required with 14/14 to hold off cheese, however I do manage to block/delay my opponent's attempt at hatch first a lot of times, if they even decide to go through with it with my drone being at their base. Besides, it allows me to move my overlords quickly in the attackpaths/natural, making me scout and react faster to anything he's planning on doing.
Back to my question though, you mentioned the poolcanceling is a bad idea, but you didn't really tell me what else I should do in response. If I go through with 14/14 vs a hatch first I just feel very behind because my hatch is just bound to be up a lot later than his, losing out on a lot of larvae in the process. Should i just normally expand at 21 supply anyway? Or should I cut some drones to get my hatch up faster? To me it feels like wasting 50 minerals on a cancel is worth the earlier expand, compared to a regular expand on around 21 supply.
If you decided to go with 9 scout then your opening should depend on opponents opening. If you see 14/14 then go 15 hatch, if you see FE then go 15 hatch, if you see early pool then drop your own pool ASAP.
Also 14/14 is not really behind vs. hatch first imo. From what I've seen the one who goes hatch first needs to invest more into defense, because he does not know what you are doing. Opening with 14/14 and hatch on 21 and then pumping drones because you have map control is good idea. You can try it yourself and later compare drone count.
Yeah I edited in the part as you were replying probably, I do choose to go hatch first if I scout that it's safe to do so.
I just have this feeling that hatch first vs 14/14 is a huge advantage, but I'll try and compare the dronecounts next time it happens.
On October 20 2011 23:17 cleecks wrote: In ZvZ I usually go 14 gas 14 pool. I like to see what my opponent's plans are, pool timing, etc. so I do an early drone scout with my 9th drone. If I scout my opponent going hatch first while my pool has just started, what's the best non-allin thing I could do?
Last game I came across it, I cancelled my pool and threw down my hatch right away. This all worked out nice in the end, but I wondered if there's a better response, because cancelling a spawning pool still is a wasted 50 minerals. (In return you get an earlier hatch so the sacrifice might be worth it in the end of course)
Never ever cancel a pool that early for no reason.. Normally when going 14/14 you don't need to scout at all, scouting at 9 is quite a lot of minerals wasted. With your first lings you scout opponent and see what he is doing.
But if your plan is to go hatch first when possible then you may scout at 9 and then depending if there is early pool or not, drop hatch. If you see something like 6-12 pool then go pool first. But again, on some maps you won't be in time even with 9 scout, so you gonna need to make a decision before reaching opponent.
I know the scout isn't really required with 14/14 to hold off cheese, however I do manage to block/delay my opponent's attempt at hatch first a lot of times, if they even decide to go through with it with my drone being at their base. Besides, it allows me to move my overlords quickly in the attackpaths/natural, making me scout and react faster to anything he's planning on doing.
Back to my question though, you mentioned the poolcanceling is a bad idea, but you didn't really tell me what else I should do in response. If I go through with 14/14 vs a hatch first I just feel very behind because my hatch is just bound to be up a lot later than his, losing out on a lot of larvae in the process. Should i just normally expand at 21 supply anyway? Or should I cut some drones to get my hatch up faster? To me it feels like wasting 50 minerals on a cancel is worth the earlier expand, compared to a regular expand on around 21 supply.
If you decided to go with 9 scout then your opening should depend on opponents opening. If you see 14/14 then go 15 hatch, if you see FE then go 15 hatch, if you see early pool then drop your own pool ASAP.
Also 14/14 is not really behind vs. hatch first imo. From what I've seen the one who goes hatch first needs to invest more into defense, because he does not know what you are doing. Opening with 14/14 and hatch on 21 and then pumping drones because you have map control is good idea. You can try it yourself and later compare drone count.
Yeah I edited in the part as you were replying probably, I do choose to go hatch first if I scout that it's safe to do so.
I just have this feeling that hatch first vs 14/14 is a huge advantage, but I'll try and compare the dronecounts next time it happens.
depends on the map, he should not be able to get away with 15 hatch on say xel'naga. oh and don't drone scout if you 14/14 it's not worth it. only drone scout if you want to 15hatch and it's on a map you can hold it.
if you're close air on say shattered, if he's going 15 hatch you're basically forced to do the same. you can't force a cancel, he knows exactly what you're doing, and going 15 hatch yourself is pretty much the only way to not fall behind.
On October 20 2011 10:57 Emporio wrote: In PvZ, is there anything wrong with going FFE into dt then Zealot/Archon? I guess you would have to be careful about roach all-in and your observer would be late, but you could probably research hallucination instead. I was thinking that if you purposefully showed additional gateways to the scouting overlord, the Zerg would mistake it for a 6gate.
zealot archon rolls over many variants of ling/infestor builds but will die to almost everything else.
ZvP - What is a good response to a 4 gate? I want to focus on a build that will successfully defend a 4gate all the time (I've been told that from Bronze-Gold to just focus on 1 strategy for each match-up). So, in other words, what is a good build for ZvP when they 4gate all in.
On October 21 2011 05:16 BudgetTheLeech wrote: ZvP - What is a good response to a 4 gate? I want to focus on a build that will successfully defend a 4gate all the time (I've been told that from Bronze-Gold to just focus on 1 strategy for each match-up). So, in other words, what is a good build for ZvP when they 4gate all in.
PM me your response please ^_^!
Make spines. If you get 3+ spines up and decent unit production and maintain your macro then 4gate can't do anything. depending on the map you'll need more (ex. Backwater, Metalopolis, Xelnaga.
P v R(t) - Last night I played a game against a random on Tal darim. I 9 pylon scout him first and see his terran. Being a little uncordinated I get my probe killed before I see much of anything by worker surround.
Now given my experience with random players I've found they cheese a lot so i when for a safe opener with 2 gateways and stalkers in case of some kind of 11,11,11 3 rax cheese which has happened to me a few times on this map given it has no ramp.
I later find that they had actually gon CC first. I paniced and thought i was way behind so i tried to all in him with 4 gate blink stalkers and failed misserably.
Should I have just have put down a nexus and accept i'll be slightly behind economically and try to make it up? Or should I have all inned with like a 4 gate .. or some better all in?
On October 21 2011 07:06 Dracover wrote: Quick question
P v R(t) - Last night I played a game against a random on Tal darim. I 9 pylon scout him first and see his terran. Being a little uncordinated I get my probe killed before I see much of anything by worker surround.
Now given my experience with random players I've found they cheese a lot so i when for a safe opener with 2 gateways and stalkers in case of some kind of 11,11,11 3 rax cheese which has happened to me a few times on this map given it has no ramp.
I later find that they had actually gon CC first. I paniced and thought i was way behind so i tried to all in him with 4 gate blink stalkers and failed misserably.
Should I have just have put down a nexus and accept i'll be slightly behind economically and try to make it up? Or should I have all inned with like a 4 gate .. or some better all in?
First off, I would recommend sending a second probe to his base if your first gets killed because you cannot afford to play in the dark. If you had scouted his CC first, you could then have made a decision based on scouting as to whether you wanted to expo or all-in him.
In ZvT, what's a good counter to a Terran who goes heavy bio with lots of marauders to tank for his marines? They slow my banelings and stop them from connecting with the marines, and I can't come up with any other tech that's good against them aside from zerglings (which get roasted by marines from behind the marauders).
I lose to bio pretty much every time...I have way more success vs. Tank/Marine.
On October 21 2011 10:18 boon2537 wrote: When is a good timing/trigger for zerg to add a macro hatch ?
Unspent resources with no larva available, yet not enough map control/safety for a new base.
On October 21 2011 08:20 Competent wrote: In a ZvZ is it possible to hold off a 6pool if you 14hatched and still come out ahead?
Same question for 7p8p9p10p11p
no. You should be insta-losing in this scenario.
On October 21 2011 10:15 DadE wrote: How much gas do i need to support something like roach banelings and roach hydra both doing 2 evos for ups? Thx in advance!
All gasses at all your bases, assuming full mineral saturation. At full base saturation, gas is mined at a little less than 1/3 of minerals mined, so you'll need all that you can get.
On October 21 2011 10:50 Zoomacroom wrote: In ZvT, what's a good counter to a Terran who goes heavy bio with lots of marauders to tank for his marines? They slow my banelings and stop them from connecting with the marines, and I can't come up with any other tech that's good against them aside from zerglings (which get roasted by marines from behind the marauders).
I lose to bio pretty much every time...I have way more success vs. Tank/Marine.
It takes either: -Good zergling positioning. Destiny had a great analogy/demonstration for fighting bio with ling/baneling, which basically boiled down to surrounding before your opponent can split. You want to have your lings completely behind your opponent before the engagement happens, with your banes on the other side of the bio ball.
On October 21 2011 10:50 Zoomacroom wrote: In ZvT, what's a good counter to a Terran who goes heavy bio with lots of marauders to tank for his marines? They slow my banelings and stop them from connecting with the marines, and I can't come up with any other tech that's good against them aside from zerglings (which get roasted by marines from behind the marauders).
I lose to bio pretty much every time...I have way more success vs. Tank/Marine.
Without the siegetanks, the terran doesn't have any kind of AoE attack on your banelings, so they usually should be able to connect easily, given the right positioning and a good count of banelings. You should try flanking his army and if possible attack from multiple angles to avoid easy kiting for the terran. Also try to use your speedlings to lock his army in place, so your banelings can actually connect. It's important to have your banelings on move command here (as opposed to attack-move), so you don't end up losing several banelings to kill just one marauder. When the banelings die they give splash damage, so it doesnt hurt you in any way to just have them move towards his marines.
It's also very important to not fall behind on upgrades, because marines get a LOT stronger vs your lings with an upgrade advantage.
If you notice he just keeps making infantry without any siegetank support, I would try to tech to infestors fast, because with infestors out his pushes become a lot easier to handle, as fungals really tend to put the hurt on marines. Don't just blindly rush to infestors though, make sure you get a lot of lings and banelings to fight his army before infestors get out. (Get a macro hatch if you feel you can't spend all of your minerals)
On October 20 2011 16:32 NrGmonk wrote: Can anyone teach me how to make a graphic similar to the one in this thread? I'm trying to rewrite an updated version of that guide, but can't figure out the best way to make that graphic.
EPT
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