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On August 20 2011 07:37 Blazinghand wrote:Yeah, basically. Warpgates produce faster and produce everywhere. The other time you might want to have a gateway instead of a warpgate is + Show Spoiler + if you're out of pylons, but have a nexus (which means you have supply), but you don't want to make probes, because you only have like 500 minerals and your only nexus is in your main and your main AND natural AND your third are mined out (it was a long game). If you build a probe you need to long-distance mine from the gold and you're on backwater gultch.
You have 1 Warp Prism, and 1 Observer. Your opponent has no attack units except for a queen that is slowly, slowly making its way towards your base to finish you off.
So you instead want to spend your money on units, let's say, 2 zealots and a sentry, or 2stalkers or something. You want to lay down a power field to power all your gateways. However, you placed your gateways in a triangle shape around a photon cannon and cybernetics core which means the only way to power all of them at once is to open the warp prism over the cybernetics core, leaving not quite enough power field open to warp in a zealot because the core and cannon block your power field. Your opponent is, let's say, a zerg player, and his only units are 1 queen and 3 spore crawlers.
Normally you'd make a pylon, so you could make a couple stalkers and kill his queen then press on to kill his 3 buildings, but your opponent is very wiley and has positioned about 10 overlords around your gateways, spreading creep. He planted several spore crawlers nearby since he doesnt' want your warp prism to power the gateways. HOWEVER, if you can fly past the spore crawlers (you can, it's a speed prism) to your cannon, you can power it and he won't be able to edge his spore crawlers any closer since the cannon will shoot them.
In this case you'd want to power the warpgates, and turn them back into gateways since you don't have enough room to warp anything into a power field, and make a stalker or something to kill the queen.
One could imagine other situations where you base trade against a banshee rushing terran, and you need to use your warp prism to power your final cannon, your only means of detection, which is also guarding your final gateway. You have 2 stalkers, which means you can hold off his final banshee IF YOU CAN SEE IT, but you can't actually attack him. Due to the way your cyber core and many extraneous gateways are laid out, the only way to power both the cannon and at least 1 gateway would require that you not have enough room to warp in a stalker-- so you make it through the gateway. In this case you also have a nexus but it's close by and easy to protect (part of the building cluster around which this cannon provides detection).
Basically, the likelihood of needing to turn warpgates back into gateways is quite rare. Unless you need units to spawn with full health within your base and to make sure that they aren't being damaged while warping in, you probably won't have reason to turn them back into gateways.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On August 20 2011 08:20 AnxiousHippo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 07:37 Blazinghand wrote:Yeah, basically. Warpgates produce faster and produce everywhere. The other time you might want to have a gateway instead of a warpgate is + Show Spoiler + if you're out of pylons, but have a nexus (which means you have supply), but you don't want to make probes, because you only have like 500 minerals and your only nexus is in your main and your main AND natural AND your third are mined out (it was a long game). If you build a probe you need to long-distance mine from the gold and you're on backwater gultch.
You have 1 Warp Prism, and 1 Observer. Your opponent has no attack units except for a queen that is slowly, slowly making its way towards your base to finish you off.
So you instead want to spend your money on units, let's say, 2 zealots and a sentry, or 2stalkers or something. You want to lay down a power field to power all your gateways. However, you placed your gateways in a triangle shape around a photon cannon and cybernetics core which means the only way to power all of them at once is to open the warp prism over the cybernetics core, leaving not quite enough power field open to warp in a zealot because the core and cannon block your power field. Your opponent is, let's say, a zerg player, and his only units are 1 queen and 3 spore crawlers.
Normally you'd make a pylon, so you could make a couple stalkers and kill his queen then press on to kill his 3 buildings, but your opponent is very wiley and has positioned about 10 overlords around your gateways, spreading creep. He planted several spore crawlers nearby since he doesnt' want your warp prism to power the gateways. HOWEVER, if you can fly past the spore crawlers (you can, it's a speed prism) to your cannon, you can power it and he won't be able to edge his spore crawlers any closer since the cannon will shoot them.
In this case you'd want to power the warpgates, and turn them back into gateways since you don't have enough room to warp anything into a power field, and make a stalker or something to kill the queen.
One could imagine other situations where you base trade against a banshee rushing terran, and you need to use your warp prism to power your final cannon, your only means of detection, which is also guarding your final gateway. You have 2 stalkers, which means you can hold off his final banshee IF YOU CAN SEE IT, but you can't actually attack him. Due to the way your cyber core and many extraneous gateways are laid out, the only way to power both the cannon and at least 1 gateway would require that you not have enough room to warp in a stalker-- so you make it through the gateway. In this case you also have a nexus but it's close by and easy to protect (part of the building cluster around which this cannon provides detection).
Basically, the likelihood of needing to turn warpgates back into gateways is quite rare. Unless you need units to spawn with full health within your base and to make sure that they aren't being damaged while warping in, you probably won't have reason to turn them back into gateways. Yeah. And even so, it might be better to just make them through warpgate anyways just because they come out way faster (5 seconds) than with gateway, which is 10 seconds plus the build time.
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On August 20 2011 08:09 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Does the bounce attack from Mutalisks attack hit undetected enemy cloaked units?
No.
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I'm new to Zerg and I wanted to ask you for a good control group setup (army, queens, hatch) and which larvae inject technique is the best. I'm using the grid layout if this is important to know.
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On August 20 2011 08:40 Gomox wrote:
I'm new to Zerg and I wanted to ask you for a good control group setup (army, queens, hatch) and which larvae inject technique is the best. I'm using the grid layout if this is important to know.
Whatever is comfortable for you.
I personally hotkey my army on 1-4, my hatcheries on 5, my queens on 6.
I've rebound the backspace key to my space bar. I inject by hitting 6, v, hold shift, then hit space and click on each of my hatcheries.
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Ugh, double post. apologies.
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On August 20 2011 08:40 Gomox wrote:
I'm new to Zerg and I wanted to ask you for a good control group setup (army, queens, hatch) and which larvae inject technique is the best. I'm using the grid layout if this is important to know.
This Wiki page details all the methods, try them out and find what's most comfortable for you.
Personally, I like the backspace one, but use the minimap inject if I need to be watching my army at the same time as well.
If you want an even more in-depth answer about hotkeys and mechanics, I suggest you watch This Daily, where Day9 talks about Mechanics exclusively.
On August 20 2011 08:09 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Does the bounce attack from Mutalisks attack hit undetected enemy cloaked units?
No, but almost all other splash does. You can use it to kill dts if you really, really have to.
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Im a T vs Z....VS Z its kinda difficult for me since I dont really know what needs to be done. I normally make 3 rax. With P its so good, but with Z....they have too many lings and banelings, so I have to make hellions. Anyway, the only time I win vs them is if I make banshee rush. Then I win. But if not, then they simply can have too many things. They had zerglings and infestors. What is the best way to deal with this? Surely not 3 rax? Since infestors are there, I think I have to go siege tanks?
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On August 20 2011 12:27 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Im a T vs Z....VS Z its kinda difficult for me since I dont really know what needs to be done. I normally make 3 rax. With P its so good, but with Z....they have too many lings and banelings, so I have to make hellions. Anyway, the only time I win vs them is if I make banshee rush. Then I win. But if not, then they simply can have too many things. They had zerglings and infestors. What is the best way to deal with this? Surely not 3 rax? Since infestors are there, I think I have to go siege tanks?
TvZ general guide thread
This thread goes through all the basics of TvZ, the basic formula of a TvZ from the terran perspective should look like:
Pressure opener with an expand follow-up (such as reactor-hellion expand).
Mid-game transition into marine/tank/medivac, most solid unit composition for TvZ with no real weaknesses if controlled properly.
2 base stim timing against the zerg as your first real attack.
Take a third and prepare for whatever the zerg's lair tech transition is.
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How do you hold a 2 base 6/7 gate timing push with or without +1 as zerg? I lose every single time against it, I feel really hopeless in pvz now because all tosses seems to do it and I just can't hold it. Since the recent season my win % against toss is probably below 15%. I usually go ling/infestor style and when the time the 6/7 gate push comes I only have lings and spines to defend with but I always end up getting stomped brutally. What's the trick? it should be possible to defend with just lings right? any helpful tips are welcome, a replay where someone holds a 6/7 gate with mainly lings would be golden though. Thanks!
I'm in diamond league btw.
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Nothing to do with strategy but
Is there a way to see who's on battle.net without having to go online? I hate having to load everything to check when I'm just up for one game with a friend. You know what I mean?
lol, posted this in the map making simple Q simple A thread 
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On August 20 2011 20:12 eery1 wrote:Nothing to do with strategy but Is there a way to see who's on battle.net without having to go online? I hate having to load everything to check when I'm just up for one game with a friend. You know what I mean? lol, posted this in the map making simple Q simple A thread As far as I know, no.
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On August 20 2011 15:10 VAGZ wrote:
How do you hold a 2 base 6/7 gate timing push with or without +1 as zerg? I lose every single time against it, I feel really hopeless in pvz now because all tosses seems to do it and I just can't hold it. Since the recent season my win % against toss is probably below 15%. I usually go ling/infestor style and when the time the 6/7 gate push comes I only have lings and spines to defend with but I always end up getting stomped brutally. What's the trick? it should be possible to defend with just lings right? any helpful tips are welcome, a replay where someone holds a 6/7 gate with mainly lings would be golden though. Thanks!
I'm in diamond league btw.
Well, talking from the diamond toss perspective, what's crushed me whenever I try to go for this is the IM-style 3 base zerg (nestea and losira style zvp) because they can saturate the 3rd quickly enough, delay with some spines, and just roll me with waves of roaches and lings. Wait for Aletheia27 to get back in this thread, he's a pretty good master Z.
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Currently im struggling of using CTRL+1 CTRL+2 to group my units. I was wondering what the pro's are using to group their units? Because when I see some streams I can't see them using the CTRL key
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As a zerg, what is one's most efficient way of breaking a tank/marine contain from terran off of 2 bases, infestors or banelings? maybe another option?
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Should i go in TvP for Upgrades or for MediVacs first?
What type of play is more powerful?
for Example:
No Gas FE into 3 Baracks+Ebay first or No Gas FE into 3 Baracks+asap MediVacs?
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On August 20 2011 21:31 Jojo131 wrote:
As a zerg, what is one's most efficient way of breaking a tank/marine contain from terran off of 2 bases, infestors or banelings? maybe another option?
Either or. If you go ling/bling/muta, then you use mutas to snipe tanks and cut off the terran's supply line while you amass units. With ling/infestor, the infestors can fungal marines to prevent forward pushes, fungal tanks tanks to prevent them from sieging up, or (if this is a delayed contain so you have the time to research it) neural the forward tanks to give your lings more breathing room to get into the fight.
Regardless of your tech choice, you should attempt to do the following things:
1) Before they contain you, make sure to scout and poke their army with your lings to force a siege/unsiege and buy you some time to build up. Just don't lose too many lings in the process.
2) Have vision of their army at all times, either via mutalisks, speed overlord, or changeling, so you can choose to engage if they get greedy and unsiege too many tanks.
3) Attempt to cut off their supply lines (or just outright coutnerattack) in some way with mutalisks or a ling runby. This will force them to attack at a sub-optimal time or fall back to defend.
4) When finally engaging the contain, lead your army with a set of spaced out units like some lings or queens to soak initial tank shots. Keep in mind that siege tanks take 2.25s to fire, so sending in some bait units can make the difference between all your lings getting into the tank line or only half of them. An overlord move-dropping lings (if you researched drop) also serves this purpose well.
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On August 20 2011 21:19 Rk0 wrote:
Currently im struggling of using CTRL+1 CTRL+2 to group my units. I was wondering what the pro's are using to group their units? Because when I see some streams I can't see them using the CTRL key
I'm not entirely sure I understand your question... but I'm guessing you mean you don't see them selecting every single unit and pressing ctrl+1 to bind them to hotkey 1.
If that is your question the answer is they shift+1, which ADDS units to your hotkey. Ctrl overrides the previous hotkey and makes a new; Shift adds to the previous hotkey.
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Is there anywhere I could post, or anyone I could talk to that would offer free coaching to a high platinum/low diamond? I'm committed and have the potential to get to masters if I had enough tutelage.
Also on TL is there any comprehensive list of protoss BOs? I've been to the strategy thread but there is only a handful of outdated ones.
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I just saw the TeamSpeak Open tournament but I only have an EU account. What regular open tournaments are there for EU where they let silver leaguers play? :p
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EPT
