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Erzz
Canada184 Posts
I'm playing platinum players now (I have a really good 4gate and just had 8 PvP wins in a row) and feel my knowledge of PvT and PvZ isn't very good. I use 3gate FE in PvT and PvZ. Also can someone either link me a replay of a crisp 3gate expo, or say how many units I should have at some point? (ie I read somewhere that with 4gate you should get 6 stalkers 1 zealot at 5:45 so I practiced until I could do that. Something similar for 3gate expo would be appreciated) | ||
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On August 19 2011 23:02 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: I would not have asked this if this is what it takes to get out outside. Even with the rally point outside he sometimes spawns inside. Don't listen to the other guy, he doesn't know what you mean. It's actually a glitch (or maybe just a mechanic that isn't ideal for this), when 4-5 zerglings are attacking your gateway (however many it takes to maximally cover the outer portion), it leaves no room for a zealot to spawn in that direction. Thus, even with a proper rally point, the zealot will spawn on the inside because there are units in the way outside. Not sure what to do about this honestly... I am a zerg so I kinda like it but as a Toss i'm not sure what you can do. Hope he attacks your cyber core I guess. | ||
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On August 19 2011 22:53 13th Marine wrote: Q1. Drone scout or 1st pair of lings scout in ZvZ? ZvT? ZvP? Q2. Overlord sac in ZvT? ZvP? ZvZ? Good timing? Q3. Is a speedling expand viable at all levels? For all match ups? Or is a hatch first necessary at some point or for ZvZ, etc? A1: Always drone scout. The first lings aren't fast enough, ie terran has time to wall, toss has time to get a zealot out, zerg has way too much time to get a early pool going and without scouting that is a insta-lose. A2: Overlord sacs are great if they are hiding their tech. ZvT: If you don't see anything when you scout up the ramp with lings (ie, hiding his factory, more rax, starport), a overlord scout should be at ~4:30 to 5 minutes. Hopefully your drone scouted gas (0, 1, or 2) and you should be able to deduce enough info from that. ZvP: Scout with overlord at around 5:30. If they're DT or stargate this timing will show you a twilight or stargate, it also shows a 4 gate. ZvZ: Not necessary early as they won't have walled off. The best times to use it is when they do wall of with queens+spine at top of ramp, indicates one base tech play (infestor or muta). A3: I'm only diamond, but in theory a speedling expand should always be viable. Against a well defended hatch first in ZvZ it might put you slightly behind economically, but it isn't an insta-loss. Against terran and toss you can usually get away with hatch first on all maps except close spawn shattered, but a speedling exand with 1-3 sets of lings can still work. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Basically I first scouted his base, and he took ALL his probes from the mineral line to kill my SCV. I think this is to make sure I have no idea what he was doing. So basically after that, I had non idea a DT rush was about to come. So, what should I do when I see something like that? Is scan the only way? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On August 20 2011 00:02 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: Hi TL, Basically I first scouted his base, and he took ALL his probes from the mineral line to kill my SCV. I think this is to make sure I have no idea what he was doing. So basically after that, I had non idea a DT rush was about to come. So, what should I do when I see something like that? Is scan the only way? You have no way to see the DT shrine go down anyway with your scouting scv's; to know he's teching you can 1) hope to be lucky with a scan; 2) poke his front with another scv about 6 ish minutes into the game and see how many gas units he has (assuming you know he took his second gas; if he's dt rushing you should see it with your scv). If he has like 4 ish sentries and stalkers then there's no way a dt rush is coming soon; while it's a possibility if he has a bit less than that, and lots of zealots. Knowing he's teching try to throw up a scan; if you don't see anything at all it might be best to get turrets anyway in case of a void ray bust or dt shrine, but i dont play terran so im not 100% sure about that. edit: also dont run scouts through a mineral line as they can get picked off. Either have it move behind it, or just going back and forth to check his gasses. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Anyway, yes, I saw he had MANY zealots. So I guess I learned something new everyday. Any other methods to see DT coming? | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 20 2011 00:02 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: Hi TL, Basically I first scouted his base, and he took ALL his probes from the mineral line to kill my SCV. I think this is to make sure I have no idea what he was doing. So basically after that, I had non idea a DT rush was about to come. So, what should I do when I see something like that? Is scan the only way? Regarding DT rushes, there is no way to reliably scout and confirm it, period. Protoss can always proxy the tech structures. However, you should scout to see things like gas timings and lack of other buildings/expansions, which can clue you in on the possibility of DTs at a certain timing. This takes a lot of experience. Basically what I'm trying to say is that most of the time you always need to make turret to defend against the possibility of DTs, scouting just determines how early you need to make those turrets (without even scouting a dark shrine). | ||
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13th Marine
United States344 Posts
On August 19 2011 23:47 galtdunn wrote: A1: Always drone scout. The first lings aren't fast enough, ie terran has time to wall, toss has time to get a zealot out, zerg has way too much time to get a early pool going and without scouting that is a insta-lose. A2: Overlord sacs are great if they are hiding their tech. ZvT: If you don't see anything when you scout up the ramp with lings (ie, hiding his factory, more rax, starport), a overlord scout should be at ~4:30 to 5 minutes. Hopefully your drone scouted gas (0, 1, or 2) and you should be able to deduce enough info from that. ZvP: Scout with overlord at around 5:30. If they're DT or stargate this timing will show you a twilight or stargate, it also shows a 4 gate. ZvZ: Not necessary early as they won't have walled off. The best times to use it is when they do wall of with queens+spine at top of ramp, indicates one base tech play (infestor or muta). A3: I'm only diamond, but in theory a speedling expand should always be viable. Against a well defended hatch first in ZvZ it might put you slightly behind economically, but it isn't an insta-loss. Against terran and toss you can usually get away with hatch first on all maps except close spawn shattered, but a speedling exand with 1-3 sets of lings can still work. Thank you good sir. | ||
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HelixDnB
United States34 Posts
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
On August 20 2011 01:32 HelixDnB wrote: Soooooo what the heck do I do vs Chargelot Archon (from DT) as Z? I thought that the appropriate counter was Infestor Roach (emphasis on roach) but got steam-rolled. I may not have had enough roaches out, and I couldn't NP the archons for some reason either (probably getting sniped). If you're losing to zealot/archon with infestor roach, your macro is either terrible, or you forgot about upgrades. Post a replay I'll help you out. Also, no need to NP the archons, FG on the zealot ball is waaaaay more cost effective. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On August 20 2011 01:32 HelixDnB wrote: Soooooo what the heck do I do vs Chargelot Archon (from DT) as Z? I thought that the appropriate counter was Infestor Roach (emphasis on roach) but got steam-rolled. I may not have had enough roaches out, and I couldn't NP the archons for some reason either (probably getting sniped). Roach Hydra destroys it... If you have roach/infestor, get a few hydras and the zeals won't really do much damage. That whole army composition should be fungaled, not NP'ed anyway since you are most, if not all, ranged units. | ||
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Trazati
52 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On August 20 2011 02:35 Trazati wrote: Hey guys, I'm pretty new to Starcraft having played only 41 games in the practice league now. I had a question I would like answered. Is there always going to be destructable rocks in front of my base that i have to destroy to get to the midfield and into their base? I am watching a lot of replays from pros and they always scout with probes and I really wish I could do that. Instead I have to either build units to destroy the rocks or use a transport unit. It is very stupid and it denys the early game harass. Do the rocks ever go away in ladder play? Those rocks are only in there in Practice League. Once those rocks no longer exist, you have to watch out for quick attacks from your opponent using small numbers of units to try to overwhelm you early on (rushes) and strategies using buildings built close to you, either barracks/gateways or photon cannons/bunkers, to attack you extra quickly (proxy attack or cannon/bunker rush). I'd recommend you end your stay in Practice League and begin laddering. You could also play your final 9 practice league games if you wanted, but at this point you probably know what's going on. | ||
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Trazati
52 Posts
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On August 20 2011 02:45 Trazati wrote: I think ill finish my 9 games out. Can you explain the how the placement matches work? Placement matches are kind of like placement tests. You play 5 matches initially, and they are usually against different calibers of players (not too varied, but you'll get a bit of variance). Based on your performance, you'll get placed into a league. Leagues are pretty difficult to get promoted out of, so make sure you play as solidly as possible to try and get a placement you deserve (ie, don't die to 5 cheeses in a row and get placed in bronze). | ||
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HelixDnB
United States34 Posts
On August 20 2011 02:09 Geiko wrote: If you're losing to zealot/archon with infestor roach, your macro is either terrible, or you forgot about upgrades. Post a replay I'll help you out. Also, no need to NP the archons, FG on the zealot ball is waaaaay more cost effective. I was on 4-5 bases at the time and had a ridiculous economy going. I was trying out the Losira/NesTea 3/4gate counter to FFE vs P that game and the game before (lost both of them...but mainly because of being so new to the style). The problem was I didn't have upgrades in the right spots and did a relatively late roach switch once I saw the first few archons coming out - in addition to not putting ANY pressure on the toss. Prior to that I was going sling infestor so I had been upgrading melee and carapace instead of range (I was +2 m +2 c and had no +range). Good call on the fungaling though - I thought that it was better to NP the archons letting your roach/ling take out their ground forces and then clean up the archons after the chargelots were dead. I also thought that Hydras got eaten alive by Archons? | ||
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vanao
9 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 20 2011 03:13 vanao wrote: does the 250-cannon of a thor also stun a planetry fortress or a photon cannon or any other static defense? According to liquipedia: A stunned target is unable to move, attack or use abilities. This includes using transports, (defensive) buildings and any research or production taking place in them. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 20 2011 03:12 HelixDnB wrote: I was on 4-5 bases at the time and had a ridiculous economy going. I was trying out the Losira/NesTea 3/4gate counter to FFE vs P that game and the game before (lost both of them...but mainly because of being so new to the style). The problem was I didn't have upgrades in the right spots and did a relatively late roach switch once I saw the first few archons coming out - in addition to not putting ANY pressure on the toss. Prior to that I was going sling infestor so I had been upgrading melee and carapace instead of range (I was +2 m +2 c and had no +range). Good call on the fungaling though - I thought that it was better to NP the archons letting your roach/ling take out their ground forces and then clean up the archons after the chargelots were dead. I also thought that Hydras got eaten alive by Archons? You can be on 4-5 bases and still have horrible macro, which is still what I suspect. Archons do pretty well against hydras but roach/hydra is pretty good when roaches are tanking. | ||
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