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On August 08 2011 22:43 Iyerbeth wrote:
Whilst I know this doesn't really matter it's a simple question that's been bothering me. Are Archons classed as Gateway units when people talk about Gateway armies? Also, if different, should they be?
Yes. They are considered a gateway unit.
(Note that this is just a label and has no bearing on mechanics or anything directly impacting the game. They are gateway units simply because the units used to produce them pop out of gateways.)
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On August 08 2011 22:49 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 22:43 Iyerbeth wrote:
Whilst I know this doesn't really matter it's a simple question that's been bothering me. Are Archons classed as Gateway units when people talk about Gateway armies? Also, if different, should they be? Yes. They are considered a gateway unit. (Note that this is just a label and has no bearing on mechanics or anything directly impacting the game. They are gateway units simply because the units used to produce them pop out of gateways.)
Sorry, it has an impact on the game. The main advantage of the Zealot Archon composition is that it spawns from your gateways, and you don't need additional buildings for those.
I has question 
I'm currently testing a concusive timming rush vs P . I need to know how fast it must be in order to abuse the concusive mechanic vs Protoss. I am currently testing with a standartd opening and a fast techlab (and a second & third rax) to have 2 or 3 marines and 2 marauders by the time when concusive finishes.
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In a TvP, if I scout the protoss, at what timing is the protoss' second gas considered "early" such that I can suspect stargate/dts
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On August 09 2011 00:17 Funions wrote:
In a TvP, if I scout the protoss, at what timing is the protoss' second gas considered "early" such that I can suspect stargate/dts
A fast second gas will come at 18-24 food for any kind of tech heavy toss build. However gases at this point in the game are just as indicative of sentry heavy play as they are stargate or dt openings.
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On August 08 2011 22:43 Iyerbeth wrote:
Whilst I know this doesn't really matter it's a simple question that's been bothering me. Are Archons classed as Gateway units when people talk about Gateway armies? Also, if different, should they be?
Usually when people talk about Gateway units, they mean the units that you can make with Cybercore tech:
-Zealot
-Stalker
-Sentry
These are the bread & butter units. Archons require 2 templar, which require one of the two templar tech buildings, which requires a twilight council, so it's very high on the tech tree compared to the standard gateway units. Because of this, and because archons are so gas/supply heavy, people will usually mention archons separately when talking about army composition.
For example, if someone has a GW + colossus army, they probably mean they have a mix of zealot/stalker/sentry/colossus, with no templar or archons (which makes sense; where are you going to get the gas for colossus and templar while having a gateway army)?
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How do I beat destiny style ling/infestor TvZ? (low/mid master)
I do my usual ~9:30 tank/marine push after either reaper expanding or reactor hellion expanding, and I end up getting roflstomped by 40 speedlings even though I'm sieged. For my next push, I have to add in a few ghosts because he has ~8 infestors, and then the rest of my army is that much smaller because of so much time/resources spent into getting ghosts, so zerglings just rape the shit out of it again. Also, by this time, the creep spread has gotten pretty ridiculous and I'm trying to scan and kill it off of 3base 2 orbitals, which is really destroying my mining (and usually I don't even have enough scans to move up the creep)
Is there a good way to scout for someone going only lings early game so that I can mix in hellions to my regular 9-10 minute tank/marine push?
Even when double dropping, I haven't been able to do any real damage other than reposition his army for a short second, but even when I manage to do that, I end up setting my tanks/marines near his 3rd/if his 4th is starting, but then have huge problems being able to move up since I'm constantly worried about my marines getting fungaled.
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On August 09 2011 01:02 blinkblue wrote:
How do I beat destiny style ling/infestor TvZ? (low/mid master)
I do my usual ~9:30 tank/marine push after either reaper expanding or reactor hellion expanding, and I end up getting roflstomped by 40 speedlings even though I'm sieged. For my next push, I have to add in a few ghosts because he has ~8 infestors, and then the rest of my army is that much smaller because of so much time/resources spent into getting ghosts, so zerglings just rape the shit out of it again. Also, by this time, the creep spread has gotten pretty ridiculous and I'm trying to scan and kill it off of 3base 2 orbitals, which is really destroying my mining (and usually I don't even have enough scans to move up the creep)
Is there a good way to scout for someone going only lings early game so that I can mix in hellions to my regular 9-10 minute tank/marine push?
Even when double dropping, I haven't been able to do any real damage other than reposition his army for a short second, but even when I manage to do that, I end up setting my tanks/marines near his 3rd/if his 4th is starting, but then have huge problems being able to move up since I'm constantly worried about my marines getting fungaled.
"It's very hard to control the pace of the game, to put any real pressure on the terran player, what are you actually doing with the infestors... are you just using them for fungals to delay the attacks?"
-Idra
on an infestor centric playstyle from Mr.Bitters 12weeks ZvT
Take my own advice with a grain of salt, but I view Infestor/Ling -vs- Marine/Tank like this -
Whoever engages the established main army is at a large disadvantage, So the game is partly about literally forcing that engagement by one mean or another ( Starving him out with map control / encroaching on his base till within siege range)
A Tank-Centric terran composition is at a huge advantage vs zerg ling infestor at this style of gameplay think one step ahead and get into a position that will deny him an eventual base then start loading up on the ghosts and wait for the eventual Broodlords and final engagement
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Force
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On August 09 2011 00:17 Funions wrote:
In a TvP, if I scout the protoss, at what timing is the protoss' second gas considered "early" such that I can suspect stargate/dts
The real issue isn't an early gas (which could indicate a sentry expand), but rather, gateway count, number of probes, and saved up chrono boost. If you scout with your first hellion, or your 3rd set of 50 energy (Scan) or a scout rax, or 1 rax concussive pressure, you can get more information on what's going on.
"fast double gas" means he's either all-inning you or playing a standard, safe FE, the gas timings are the same for both
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TvP
When fast-expanding as Terran, what's the proper response to scouting a Twilight Council and 3-4 Gates? Alternatively, what composition should I shoot for against chargelot+archon?
In this replay, my opponent ended up going chargelot+archon, attacking with 14 zealots and an archon right at 10 minutes. I had 3 bunkers filled with marines at my expansion, but he attacked right into them and tore through them (I could have micro'd repair better, but I'm not sure it would have made a difference).
Replay: http://sc2r.me/3g78
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On August 09 2011 03:22 alcaras wrote:TvPWhen fast-expanding as Terran, what's the proper response to scouting a Twilight Council and 3-4 Gates? Alternatively, what composition should I shoot for against chargelot+archon? In this replay, my opponent ended up going chargelot+archon, attacking with 14 zealots and an archon right at 10 minutes. I had 3 bunkers filled with marines at my expansion, but he attacked right into them and tore through them (I could have micro'd repair better, but I'm not sure it would have made a difference). Replay: http://sc2r.me/3g78
Depends on what the Twilight Council is doing. If it's just sort of hanging out, he's probably teching to DTs or HTs. If it's animated ( TC animation images) then you need to scout him and see if he's massing stalkers (likely, for blink) or zealots (for charge).
If you KNOW your opponent is going chargelot/archon, build all of your supply depots in front of your bunkers. Also build your engi bays there. The short-ranged chargelots and archons will have to waste time attacking these auxiliary buildings before engaging your bunkers-- and both these and your bunkers can be repaired by scvs, making it very difficult for him to attack successfully.
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When doing a 2rax vP, should you try to hide the reactor and second rax from the probe if it is in your base and your marine hasn't gotten rid of it yet? And just to make sure its reactor after first marine, 2nd rax, then 2nd depot?
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What is the earliest in game time that a player of each race respectively T, Z, P can achieve the 200/200 supply cap in general?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On August 09 2011 04:58 Dyn wrote:
When doing a 2rax vP, should you try to hide the reactor and second rax from the probe if it is in your base and your marine hasn't gotten rid of it yet? And just to make sure its reactor after first marine, 2nd rax, then 2nd depot?
Ideally you'd want to kill the probe with your first marine before starting the reactor on your 1st rax. At the very least, try to shoo it out of your base. With a little micro, a marine at the top of the ramp will keep it from getting back in. Having an scv chase it before your marine pops and get a couple hits in helps quite a bit.
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Does anyone know where I might find more reps of Nestea playing against more standard toss builds? Most of the GSL games i've seen he endsu p fighitng against startgate play, but I'm interestd to se how he responds to DTs or Mass blink stalker. The vods and commentaries I've found of him playing against those styles are for the most part outdated. :/
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On August 09 2011 04:58 Dyn wrote:
When doing a 2rax vP, should you try to hide the reactor and second rax from the probe if it is in your base and your marine hasn't gotten rid of it yet? And just to make sure its reactor after first marine, 2nd rax, then 2nd depot?
If trying to hide means delaying the reactor I wouldn't do it
reactors take a relatively long time to build on your 1st rax
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May sound stupid, but why is a 1-gate expand in PvZ safer than the old 3-gate expand?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On August 09 2011 06:07 Aletheia27 wrote:
Does anyone know where I might find more reps of Nestea playing against more standard toss builds? Most of the GSL games i've seen he endsu p fighitng against startgate play, but I'm interestd to se how he responds to DTs or Mass blink stalker. The vods and commentaries I've found of him playing against those styles are for the most part outdated. :/
I don't know where to find his reps/VoDs (does someone else know?) but here's a link to his fanclub, which has some:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220297
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On August 09 2011 06:37 Baseic wrote:
May sound stupid, but why is a 1-gate expand in PvZ safer than the old 3-gate expand?
The 2 builds are safer at different timings. While the 3 gate expand is safer earlier on (such as against early ling pressure), the 1 gate expand is usually followed by a stargate which can get a void out in time to defend against a 7-8 min roach/ling attack. This makes the 1 gate expand safer than a 3 gate expand at that timing. Since these 2 roach/ling busts are a lot more common than early speedling pressure, the 1 gate expand could be considered "safer" than the 3 gate expand. It's more of a metagame kinda thing.
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On August 09 2011 07:42 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 06:37 Baseic wrote:
May sound stupid, but why is a 1-gate expand in PvZ safer than the old 3-gate expand? The 2 builds are safer at different timings. While the 3 gate expand is safer earlier on (such as against early ling pressure), the 1 gate expand is usually followed by a stargate which can get a void out in time to defend against a 7-8 min roach/ling attack. This makes the 1 gate expand safer than a 3 gate expand at that timing. Since these 2 roach/ling busts are a lot more common than early speedling pressure, the 1 gate expand could be considered "safer" than the 3 gate expand. It's more of a metagame kinda thing.
So is there any way to easily punish 1 gate expo as zerg that will get popular now?
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On August 09 2011 07:44 Baseic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 07:42 Anihc wrote:On August 09 2011 06:37 Baseic wrote:
May sound stupid, but why is a 1-gate expand in PvZ safer than the old 3-gate expand? The 2 builds are safer at different timings. While the 3 gate expand is safer earlier on (such as against early ling pressure), the 1 gate expand is usually followed by a stargate which can get a void out in time to defend against a 7-8 min roach/ling attack. This makes the 1 gate expand safer than a 3 gate expand at that timing. Since these 2 roach/ling busts are a lot more common than early speedling pressure, the 1 gate expand could be considered "safer" than the 3 gate expand. It's more of a metagame kinda thing. So is there any way to easily punish 1 gate expo as zerg that will get popular now?
I think ling pressure to deny the expo.
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EPT
