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On August 08 2011 16:03 sceroh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 15:34 closey wrote:On August 08 2011 14:54 sceroh wrote:
in mid late game :
when do I have to produce probes?
when do i produce units?
when production facilities? All the time. All the time. All the time. Since you'll be harassing each other and killing off a lot of workers, you still need to produce them to re-saturate Since you'll be attack each other and killing off each workers, you still need to produce them to replenish your army Since your economy should still be growing, you will need to produce more factories to quicker replenish your army. Hope this helps! First thanks for your answer, but Since I have a limited amout of minerals and gas, I suppose that there a things which I should favor to others; The reason why I am asking this is because I often get out macroed.
That's a pretty stupid answer in my opinion. They all depend on the certain game in question. For example, if you're looking to get a third, feeling safe and so, obviously getting those extra workers to quickly saturate your third is a good idea.
You need to make units at a somewhat constant rate, but obviously this also depends, if you for some reason decide to dedicate a lot of minerals into getting an expand, say 10 workers, the expand and 2 gas, that is 1050 minerals. Obviously you need to use those minerals on your expand. The money you have left can be used to make units, this means though, that you're producing less units than you could, possibly putting you in a tough spot if the opponents attacks your third shortly after it's been set up. Same goes for tech, if you dedicate a lot of money into getting tech instead of units, you again get vulnerable to an attack. Hence, if you want to produce less units, you need to be sure that you still got "enough" of them to defend. Scouting, earlier fights and scouting even more, are good ways to get a better grip at what the opponent is doing and therefore also if you can safely expand or tech.
Your unitproducing structures in mid game are only there to keep your money down basicly, again, if you want to put all your money into units, you'll need more unitproducingstructures, if you want to put money into tech/expand, you may need a few less for a while! It all comes down to your own preference in that certain game! 
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On August 08 2011 16:03 sceroh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 15:34 closey wrote:On August 08 2011 14:54 sceroh wrote:
in mid late game :
when do I have to produce probes?
when do i produce units?
when production facilities? All the time. All the time. All the time. Since you'll be harassing each other and killing off a lot of workers, you still need to produce them to re-saturate Since you'll be attack each other and killing off each workers, you still need to produce them to replenish your army Since your economy should still be growing, you will need to produce more factories to quicker replenish your army. Hope this helps! First thanks for your answer, but Since I have a limited amout of minerals and gas, I suppose that there a things which I should favor to others; The reason why I am asking this is because I often get out macroed.
This isn't a simple question to answer, because it depends on each individual game, but I personally have one guiding principle for late game: if I'm maxed and banking resources I'll do one of two things. If I'm maxed and I feel he's behind, I want to attack nonstop so he doesn't get a chance to catch up. If we're both maxed, I'll seek to add more production facilities in preparation for an engagement.
If you feel like you're getting outmacroed late game, take more bases and get upgrades so you can have the resources to rei force with once engagements start happening again.
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On August 08 2011 16:25 Tryxtira wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:03 sceroh wrote:On August 08 2011 15:34 closey wrote:On August 08 2011 14:54 sceroh wrote:
in mid late game :
when do I have to produce probes?
when do i produce units?
when production facilities? All the time. All the time. All the time. Since you'll be harassing each other and killing off a lot of workers, you still need to produce them to re-saturate Since you'll be attack each other and killing off each workers, you still need to produce them to replenish your army Since your economy should still be growing, you will need to produce more factories to quicker replenish your army. Hope this helps! First thanks for your answer, but Since I have a limited amout of minerals and gas, I suppose that there a things which I should favor to others; The reason why I am asking this is because I often get out macroed. That's a pretty stupid answer in my opinion. They all depend on the certain game in question. For example, if you're looking to get a third, feeling safe and so, obviously getting those extra workers to quickly saturate your third is a good idea. You need to make units at a somewhat constant rate, but obviously this also depends, if you for some reason decide to dedicate a lot of minerals into getting an expand, say 10 workers, the expand and 2 gas, that is 1050 minerals. Obviously you need to use those minerals on your expand. The money you have left can be used to make units, this means though, that you're producing less units than you could, possibly putting you in a tough spot if the opponents attacks your third shortly after it's been set up. Same goes for tech, if you dedicate a lot of money into getting tech instead of units, you again get vulnerable to an attack. Hence, if you want to produce less units, you need to be sure that you still got "enough" of them to defend. Scouting, earlier fights and scouting even more, are good ways to get a better grip at what the opponent is doing and therefore also if you can safely expand or tech. Your unitproducing structures in mid game are only there to keep your money down basicly, again, if you want to put all your money into units, you'll need more unitproducingstructures, if you want to put money into tech/expand, you may need a few less for a while! It all comes down to your own preference in that certain game!
ok thanks for your answer.
I suppose that I am getting outmacroed because of my lack of scounting information
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Why do some professional protoss players not hotkey their warpgates?
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Italy12246 Posts
On August 08 2011 17:59 Tegin wrote:
Why do some professional protoss players not hotkey their warpgates?
They have w as an in-game automatic hotkey.
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Why have I seen so many 1/1/1 T all ins use just banshee/tank/marines
I thought having the Raven(with like 2 less banshees) was ALOT better?
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On August 08 2011 18:52 Original exxo wrote:
Why have I seen so many 1/1/1 T all ins use just banshee/tank/marines
I thought having the Raven(with like 2 less banshees) was ALOT better?
Ravens can been good but are very situational and rely on having energy, once the energy is gone your just left with an expansive floating detector. 2 banshees on the other hand can be used in your all in push or to harass and cause a lot of damage, making them more useful then the raven in may situations
Edit: In a 2v2 what is the best way for me to stop a ZT team from killing me when they go Ling Hellion, Marine Roach or Roach Marauder when i am Zerg with a random ally (could be any race)
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Russian Federation473 Posts
On August 08 2011 18:52 Original exxo wrote:
Why have I seen so many 1/1/1 T all ins use just banshee/tank/marines
I thought having the Raven(with like 2 less banshees) was ALOT better?
a pdd (if you place it at the right place) blocks 20 stalker shots and zero sentry shots, so it's about 1.5 banshees and zero dps.
you can spot observers and recycle energy though.
it's arguable whether you should prefer the raven and spare some gas (e.g. postponing tank production) or just have extra banshees.
but i'd say 2 banshees are generally better than a raven.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
i wonder about the neosteel frames upgrade (the thing that increases number of slots in bunkers, command centers and planetary fortresses.)
people just came to conclusion, that this upgrade is a silly relic from previous game development with zero use and impact on the game process.
but... what if we could use it to save harvesters from raiders (hellions, banelings, storms, phoenixes).
for just 100 m/100 g you are guaranteed to save at least 10 scvs at any PF during a raid - given that you press the right hotkey.
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I noticed top pros have extremely high APM (200-300) in the beginning of the game but i can't figure out exactly are they doing?
I mean, in the beginning, you create an SCV, send and split your workers to the mineral lines.
And then you wait for more minerals to make another SCV. So APM should be idle then.. BUT everytime i see pros play, they have extremely high APMs, even in the very beginning, anyone knows why?
Thanks in advance.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
On August 08 2011 19:28 dowz wrote:
I noticed top pros have extremely high APM (200-300) in the beginning of the game but i can't figure out exactly are they doing?
I mean, in the beginning, you create an SCV, send and split your workers to the mineral lines.
And then you wait for more minerals to make another SCV. So APM should be idle then.. BUT everytime i see pros play, they have extremely high APMs, even in the very beginning, anyone knows why?
Thanks in advance.
-they give several hotkeys to the cc/nexus/hatchery and press them very frequently, like 3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3....it's called spamming and allegedly helps them warm up and become a little bit faster.
-when they purchase a new scv/building etc., they start pressing the hotkey long before they have the resources for it - in order to purchase it as soon as possible.
-they set rally points for workers and overlords by spamming right click - it's a matter of habit and allegedly helps you be more precise and quick.
-many pros force harvesters to stay at the close mineral fields in order to mine slightly faster - you have to spam right click so that the harvester doesn't roll to the next (and free) mineral field.
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On August 08 2011 19:28 dowz wrote:
I noticed top pros have extremely high APM (200-300) in the beginning of the game but i can't figure out exactly are they doing?
I mean, in the beginning, you create an SCV, send and split your workers to the mineral lines.
And then you wait for more minerals to make another SCV. So APM should be idle then.. BUT everytime i see pros play, they have extremely high APMs, even in the very beginning, anyone knows why?
Thanks in advance.
not just pros, a lot of masters and even some diamond players start games with 200+ apm. They're just warming up really, there isn't actually that much to do at the start of the match.
Most Zergs like to hotkey their overlord and hatchery and constantly spam switch camera views between the two (will give you a seizure watching it if you don't do this yourself) so they won't miss anything.
Terrans and toss just spam select workers, pair them up to closer mineral patches, but that doesn't take that much apm, most of the apm goes into spamming at the start of the match.
Overall it's not that important as far as your casual gamer is concerned. Play with whatever amount of apm you are comfortable with, no need to get your apm up to the 300s just because your favourite pro player does it.
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In PvT:
* What is the optimal timing for 3gate Voidray allin?
* Can it breaks a Terran who goes for 1/1/1 Marine/Tank/Banshee allin?
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In discussions about builds/tactics and how to become a better player I hear ppl talk about "Practicing the basics."
What are the basics of SC2?
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On August 08 2011 20:04 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
In PvT:
* What is the optimal timing for 3gate Voidray allin?
* Can it breaks a Terran who goes for 1/1/1 Marine/Tank/Banshee allin?
i don't know the timings but i know that it will destroy the 1/1/1 all-in but it has to be done blindly. that and you need good micro. his unit count will be low, he will only have stim-less marines to counter your voidrays (though he will likely start viking production asap). bunkers will be a problem, you have to micro well.
edit: if i had to guess i would say ~6:40 attack commences.
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On August 08 2011 20:28 sjurjh wrote:
In discussions about builds/tactics and how to become a better player I hear ppl talk about "Practicing the basics."
What are the basics of SC2?
Mostly acquiring more resources, then spending those resources maximally.
In order of importance:
-Secure more resources
-Do not get supply blocked
-Constantly build workers
-Increase your ability to build units
-Build units
Each of them run-on from each other, you need to acquire resources to use your workers, you need to build workers in order to increase production and you need to increase production in order to make units.
The reason it's important is because unless you're able to execute the basics at a high enough level it doesn't matter what your opponent makes, he'll just have more stuff.
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On August 08 2011 20:28 sjurjh wrote:
In discussions about builds/tactics and how to become a better player I hear ppl talk about "Practicing the basics."
What are the basics of SC2?
hotkeys, unit control, managing your macro are all "basics" of this game.
i.e. for low level toss/terran, most of them need to learn to make probes/scvs non-stop throughout the entire game (till ~75 workers). watch the replay of the last macro game you played. was there ANY point you did not make workers? that's a flaw you can fix. it doesn't matter if you have to queue 3 probes/scvs at once, you really need to be making workers all game long. obviously at the higher levels you don't want to queue that much, and there will be times where you want to cut workers intentionally, but you can make such decisions when you are good enough.
once you can make workers non-stop, your income every game should be constant. you should have the same amount of workers at 'x' time, as you did in any other macro based game you play. once you are capable of maximizing your income, you can concentrate on how to efficiently spend all those resources.
there are a ton of different things. camera hotkeys are largely underused even in diamond/master leagues (i can understand the argument for some zergs not using them). increase your awareness by constantly looking at the minimap (this is what i've been working on forever, it's really hard to do when under pressure).
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Switching to Toss and am looking an all purpose build for all matchups, looking to spam some ladder games and work on the new mechanics
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my basic opening (pvt) is as follows
9 Pylon
@Pylon 100% - Chrono Nexus x2
13 Gateway
15 Assimilator
16 Pylon
17 Cybernetics Core
18 Zealot
21 Assimilator
23 Stalker @Core 100% - Chrono
25 Pylon
26 Sentry
As you can see, this is relatively standard (sorry I had to bore you by typing it all out). My question is that I see a few pros chronoboost their nexus 3 times (I only do it twice). Once after first pylon, another immediately after, and another shortly after while first assimilator is warping in. I have tried to include this third chronoboost in my build order but I ALWAYS get supply blocked by the 3rd pylon 26/26 (bolded in the buildorder above) and fail to maintain constant probe production (delays sentry too). I should note that I barely (literally less than 2 second window) do not get myself supply blocked using my posted build order, so I was not surprised that I got supply blocked when I tried adding a third chronoboost.
My question: how do pros do it? I've watched several reps and they keep constant probe production and get units at the same timings (zealot finishes at the same time as cyber, enough money to start warpgate + stalker when cyber finishes) and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I am very careful not to over queue anything, I have ran through this several times against ai and achieved the same result. One more thing I'd like to ask is, some players get their third pylon before stalker (around 23 supply). how do they afford stalker + warpgate @core 100%? do they skip zealot? delay 2nd gas?
some temporary solutions I have been doing but not very content with
- making sentry before stalker, allowing me to make an earlier pylon
- still getting stalker before sentry, but chrono'ing sentry instead of stalker (essentially, delaying chrono)
^ I'm not very content with either of these solutions =[
I should mention that I normally gateway scout pvt and I do not force 2 workers onto close patches. I simply split, make sure the close patches are being mined, get a probe on each patch, rally to close patch and ignore there after (will change rally if one side gets optimally saturated and the other isn't, but that's more of a reactionary thing)
early thanks!!!
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Whilst I know this doesn't really matter it's a simple question that's been bothering me. Are Archons classed as Gateway units when people talk about Gateway armies? Also, if different, should they be?
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EPT
