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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On July 31 2011 01:25 Le BucheRON wrote: Not strategy as much as life advice: Watch the GSL finals VODs from last night, or did they suck again? No spoilers please. I'd recommend them if you are a zerg player, or if you just enjoy ZvZ. | ||
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tooleman
United States20 Posts
I am not asking for an analysis of my play or mistakes so no replay will be included, just want a strong standard pvz build. Thanks in advance! | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
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blinkblue
United States119 Posts
Edit: I play terran. | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:49 blinkblue wrote: What's the hardest counter to CC/Nexus first builds? What type of all-ins are best to counter this? If you scout I recommend just taking a expo of your own, if you have scouted it and it is at like 50% completetion just stop all production and get a expo of your own. | ||
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blinkblue
United States119 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:56 NexUmbra wrote: Err, doesn't this put you behind if you just expo after him? That doesn't seem like the best response...responding with a build that will put you economically behind (slightly) and have no tech advantageIf you scout I recommend just taking a expo of your own, if you have scouted it and it is at like 50% completetion just stop all production and get a expo of your own. | ||
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HavokTheorem
New Zealand250 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:49 blinkblue wrote: What's the hardest counter to CC/Nexus first builds? What type of all-ins are best to counter this? Edit: I play terran. Take your own expo and harrass with the units you got while he was expanding. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On July 31 2011 05:17 blinkblue wrote: What's the hardest counter to CC/Nexus first builds? What type of all-ins are best to counter this? Marine Tank Raven Banshee all in should be plenty powerful. | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On July 28 2011 22:02 Excludos wrote: It has been answered several times  You want to send your probes to the mineral fields which are closer. Most of the time, the mineral patches on the sides are closer, and sometimes in the stack of 3, so its easy to just split your probes in 2, and send them to each side, leaving the 2 patches in the middle alone.Edit: Also, there are usually 4 mineral patches closer than the rest, a lot of Pros stack the workers so the first 8 only mines from these ones, and leave the other 4 alone (kinda tricky, as the miner AI really wants to spread out as much as possible) Well yeah, thats actually a different question. Thank tho:p and yeah, i'm not reading a couple thousand replies of "simple" answers and questions hehe | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:47 NexUmbra wrote: If a tier 3 protoss building is unpowered can you still make the units that it allows you to, so if a Templar Archives/Dark Shrine is unpowered can you still make HTs/DTs, same with carriers/mothership and fleet beacon and coloss and support bay. no you can't. User was warned for this post | ||
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
Yes you can. Stop giving wrong information. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
I just tested it with HT/DT and if it's unpowered you can still produce the unit. Please don't answer questions without knowing the answer or testing. | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
it seems like it only wants you to have them built, being powered or not doesn't matter in this case, though it does for production facilities (like gateways, robotics facility) | ||
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Granter
Sweden64 Posts
League: platinum If i see a protoss going for a 4gate but doesnt attack me around 6-8mins, what should my reaction be to this? Doesnt a 4gate damage his eco anything? If he does expand around the 9min mark am i safe to attack asuming that his eco was damaged by doing 4gate and my army should be bigger than his? (consider that i expanded a littlebit earlier) Is't possible for a terran to attack a protoss going 4gate? I have heard and seen replays of 3rax being put into use and what i can understand it was a standard opener for some time ago but is not being use that much anymore? While playing against protoss i'm always afriad of doing those drops people are saying i should because i feel like if i dont have my entire army defending my base i will be screwed if he attacks me because i can barely keep my army at his level. Plz remember that my enemies arrent the smartest and i'm not that good either (low platinum) so we are not talking about master league play here. | ||
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
On July 31 2011 07:00 Granter wrote: My race: Terran League: platinum If i see a protoss going for a 4gate but doesnt attack me around 6-8mins, what should my reaction be to this? Doesnt a 4gate damage his eco anything? If he does expand around the 9min mark am i safe to attack asuming that his eco was damaged by doing 4gate and my army should be bigger than his? (consider that i expanded a littlebit earlier) Is't possible for a terran to attack a protoss going 4gate? I have heard and seen replays of 3rax being put into use and what i can understand it was a standard opener for some time ago but is not being use that much anymore? While playing against protoss i'm always afriad of doing those drops people are saying i should because i feel like if i dont have my entire army defending my base i will be screwed if he attacks me because i can barely keep my army at his level. Plz remember that my enemies arrent the smartest and i'm not that good either (low platinum) so we are not talking about master league play here. It can be hard to deal with but you should be able to defend your expansion with multiple bunkers. 4gate builds cut probes at around 20-22, he will be definitely behind in economy if you hold it off. If he 4gated you, you should first push your economy lead, get your expo up and don't ruin your advantage. There's no reason to attack a 4gating protoss before you have a lead, as it's a very agressive build - you'll always need to make use of your defenders advantage. You should have proper map control sufficient enough to know when the protoss is pushing out so you needn't worry about counter-agression when you drop. Even if the protoss is pushing out while you drop, it's actually good for you as it'll be harder for him to hold the drop and you'll be able to use your defenders advantage to hopefully still hold the protoss attack. So yeah, do drops and don't worry. | ||
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TheProtossBard
United Kingdom9 Posts
i hope this is appropriately posted (I have read all the rules and the mods seem quite angry so I am wary of unnapropriate posting!!) Anyway, I am silver playing gold, and I have recently been cannon rushed once by a gold player (who beat me as I wouldnt expect that sort of tactic past bronze silver play) using a pylon and cannon outside of my base using a probe to spot, and then again from a platinum (who I beat as I was a lot more cautious after the previous experience) Now chatting to the gold player he told me the cannon rush was becoming quite popular in gold pvp level play - which doesnt make sense to me because even if well executed always leaves you at a huge disadvantage and seems a complete gamble to me. I just wanted to make sure that this play was still pretty much an all in and that there werent any 'proper' builds that could tansition out of a cannon rush. I would have ignored it if I hadn't also been rushed by a platinum. it is still jsut a cheese right ?! obviously If i search cannon rush its hard to find the proper information :p Thanks Ski | ||
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Xaeldaren
Ireland588 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On July 31 2011 07:22 Ski-1 wrote: Hi, i hope this is appropriately posted (I have read all the rules and the mods seem quite angry so I am wary of unnapropriate posting!!) Anyway, I am silver playing gold, and I have recently been cannon rushed once by a gold player (who beat me as I wouldnt expect that sort of tactic past bronze silver play) using a pylon and cannon outside of my base using a probe to spot, and then again from a platinum (who I beat as I was a lot more cautious after the previous experience) Now chatting to the gold player he told me the cannon rush was becoming quite popular in gold pvp level play - which doesnt make sense to me because even if well executed always leaves you at a huge disadvantage and seems a complete gamble to me. I just wanted to make sure that this play was still pretty much an all in and that there werent any 'proper' builds that could tansition out of a cannon rush. I would have ignored it if I hadn't also been rushed by a platinum. it is still jsut a cheese right ?! obviously If i search cannon rush its hard to find the proper information :p Thanks Ski Yes it is cheese, the most common transitions are all timing attacks (4/6 gate, blink stalker timing, void ray in other matchups). Cannon rushes have been popular since bw at every level of play. From MC to Bronze Everynoob Protoss expect cannon cheese if playing against Protoss until you are sure otherwise. The importance of scouting early aggression (Whether it be cheese, an all in or just a timing attack) cannot be overstated and will be what gets you to higher levels (In addition to refining your mechanics and macro). You will see cannons warping in again. I believe the counter is (If you are unsuccessful at denying the cannon rush) to build a forge of your own and build defensive cannons. However the best defense is preventative defense. If you see a enemy probe always attack it with one of your own. That way the minute your opponent makes a pylon you'll see and the minute you see a pylon being warped in you should pull 4 probes to kill it. 4 is the magic number, it will out dps a warping in pylon. 3 will not and 5 is overkill. If you successfully hold off the cannon rush I would suggest rushing blink or collosus (To out range the cannons your opponent will assuredly make at home). However I'm sure some people will disagree with me and I"ll leave it to them to post their own counter strategies. But, as it is with most cheeses- if scouted then it becomes much less dangerous and if denied you are very far ahead. On July 31 2011 07:46 Xaeldaren wrote: In PvP is it better to be proactive or reactive? As in, waiting to see what happens with their Gas before deciding to go 4 Gate/Blink/Robo/Stargate. I hate the idea of going for a tech build if the opponent is going 4 Gate since I'll probably lose. My intuition is to just blind 4 Gate and rely on superior control but I really don't want to play like that and much prefer to go a tech route. I see in most pro matches defensive 4 gates or fast robos. I think the lesson is no amount of blink stalkers will hold off a 4 gate but a chronoboosted immortal can. However when I play PvP I just offensive/defensive 4 gate every game until I know my opponent isn't. | ||
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TheProtossBard
United Kingdom9 Posts
That's very insightful, it reminds me of how fencing evolved in duelling (like 1800's), where the eventual tactics relied on whipping out someone's eye out or such to then be able to win the sword fight - hardly an honorable battle so to speak - but then winning doesn't really have the concept of 'honour' involved. and you should never assume that because someone is high rank that there ultimate end is not to win all the time - be it 'honourable' or otherwise. Cheesing has such 'bad' connotations at low level play that you expect it to disapear higher up. Thanks for the response, I will start veiwing such things as legitimate tactics and try and find some examples of transitions to add to my knoledge. thanks Ski | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:13 tooleman wrote: Hey TL, protoss player here just wondering what other protosses consider "standard" agianst zerg now that 3 gate sentry expand seems to be less and less strong lately. My pvp is quite strong and I can't remember the last time i lost a pvt. However, my pvz of late is terrible. I don't like gimmicky play and would like 1 solid build i can adapt as my new standard pvz that isn't reliant on being unscouted. I am not asking for an analysis of my play or mistakes so no replay will be included, just want a strong standard pvz build. Thanks in advance! Now I don't know the exact numbers for this build, but forge expand into stargate pressure followed by 6 gate + obs light pressure into expand is a very solid opener. I know you start out: 9 pylon 12 forge 16 nexus 17 gate 17 cannon But, as a zerg, I don't really know where to go from there. Hopefully a protoss in this thread can fill in the empty space. Basically the basis of this build is to use a single void ray +3-4 phoenix to force air defense and punish a greedy zerg, while in the background you are starting gateway unit production as well as getting a robotics for observers. I don't recommend going strait for colossus after the stargate pressure because then you would be overly vulnerable to counter-aggression by the zerg, like what happened (MLG spoiler) + Show Spoiler + to Naniwa against DRG on duel sight. You will use this gateway army to secure a third then begin teching to whatever responds to your opponent's composition. | ||
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EPT
