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On July 27 2011 07:01 ThreeStep wrote:
Hi guys
1st post here =)
I'm a silver player, attempting to open spanishiwa's gasless FE build as my main opening
I'm easily crushed by 2 tank 10-15 marine push at around 8.30+ minutes into the game
I realize the obvious solution is "macro better" but what sort of units should I aim for at 8.30 to survive such a push? spines simply get outranged, and if I move past the spines my lings die very very fast
How many lings do you have? 30-40 Should take it out if microed correctly. It helps to flank it as well.
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On July 27 2011 05:39 jdelator wrote:
With a 7:30 drop, theres not many buildings you can place. You can have a turret but it's easy to drop around it.
I'll keeping working on the f1 splitting.
I always do the anti-BFH building placement, and if you devote every building to BFH protection on most of the ladder maps, you can protect yourself from hellions pretty well by 7:00. You have to be *extremely* precise, to the point of knowing which buildings will get which addons, possibly building an expo in-base etc instead of at the natural, etc. The exceptions are Scrap Station (now removed) and Tald'arim. But I like that F1 trick, I might try it.
You want to make sure there are lots of semi-walls so that your infantry marines can get in and your scvs can get out in case they drop straight into the mineral line.
EDIT: I *know* there is a thread that talks about Terran Feng Shui to deal with hellions. But, I'm having trouble finding it :|.
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alright, thanks, I wasn't sure if I should be doing something different or just better/faster =) didn't quite have enough lings at that point, poor macro on my part
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Hi, guys. Sorry, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for elsewhere.
A lot of people in the "Why FE in ZvZ" mention going 15 hatch, gas, pool. However, their exact timings differ. Is there a timing that is generally considered preferable or considered most practical (weighing economy and safety)? For example, is 15 hatch, 15 gas, 15 pool preferred over 15 hatch, 14 gas, 13 pool and the various permutations?
Also, are there any generally agreed upon timings for the 3rd Ovie and the queens? Do people usually pull gas at 100, or is that decision more of a reactionary one?
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In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?
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On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?
That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.
Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.
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On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game? That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them. Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.
Thanks Cecil!
Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?
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On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game? That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them. Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield. Thanks Cecil! Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?
Low plat this build is fine. It's one of the safest out there.
At higher levels, the trend is more to go for some kind of 3 gate contain into expo at the moment.
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On July 27 2011 09:31 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game? That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them. Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield. Thanks Cecil! Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then? Low plat this build is fine. It's one of the safest out there. At higher levels, the trend is more to go for some kind of 3 gate contain into expo at the moment.
Cool thanks Geiko 
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On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game? That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them. Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield. Thanks Cecil! Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?
It's actually a pretty good opening to learn to play with, since the observer forces you to see the Terran in-game, and the idea to play more reactive.
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On July 27 2011 07:21 ZeroTalent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 05:39 jdelator wrote:
With a 7:30 drop, theres not many buildings you can place. You can have a turret but it's easy to drop around it.
I'll keeping working on the f1 splitting. I always do the anti-BFH building placement, and if you devote every building to BFH protection on most of the ladder maps, you can protect yourself from hellions pretty well by 7:00. You have to be *extremely* precise, to the point of knowing which buildings will get which addons, possibly building an expo in-base etc instead of at the natural, etc. The exceptions are Scrap Station (now removed) and Tald'arim. But I like that F1 trick, I might try it. You want to make sure there are lots of semi-walls so that your infantry marines can get in and your scvs can get out in case they drop straight into the mineral line. EDIT: I *know* there is a thread that talks about Terran Feng Shui to deal with hellions. But, I'm having trouble finding it :|.
Something like this?
http://rallypointgabe.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/terran-feng-shui/
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On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear): 1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away 2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game? That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them. Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.
Cecil have you ever played RuFF? He's been doing a lot of 1 base hellion/marine strats recently and they've caught me off guard several times. Like he'll open hellion and I defend find against that, but I end up overmaking stalkers in order to successfully defend, then he comes with a BF hellion/stimmed marine/medivac/raven all-in that's extremely hard to stop since you've made so many stalkers.
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As Protoss, I always seem to have trouble deciding when to fit in my forge. When (supply or time) should you place your forge if you are doing say a 2 gate robo? What rules of thumb do you use about when to place it because it usually means you are cutting units and it costs a decent amount of minerals in the early game. Does the timing differ between the opponent race?
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PvP zealot rush is completely shutting down my 4 gate... grrrr.... wtf do i do?
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what's the solution to this protoss comp ZvP?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/skuiF.jpg)
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In a TvT, what is more advisable to do for mech and air upgrades: attack or armor? I know that I (and presumably everyone else) always go attack but it seems like armor is more fitting to take away all of the marine dps and mech and air attack cooldowns (except for maybe the battlecruiser) are not as quick as the marines. Any thoughts?
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In TvT if you have air dominance when is a good time to start making battlecruisers?
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On July 27 2011 12:58 michaelhasanalias wrote:what's the solution to this protoss comp ZvP?
brood lords infestors and roach hydra
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On July 27 2011 12:10 Catchafire2000 wrote:
PvP zealot rush is completely shutting down my 4 gate... grrrr.... wtf do i do?
Scout it out, it's very difficult to deny scouting with just a zealot and early in the game he will not have many pylons unless he's proxying it, you can respond by walling your ramp like in PvZ or throwing down your own 2nd gateway. Note that the timing itself is important, if he cut probes to do double 10 gate, that's more severe than just getting a gateway instead of a cybernetics core, just check his gateway timing compared to your own.
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What is an effective zerg army composition against a balanced 200/200 protoss colossus stalker zealot deathball? Mass roach isn't working for me, I tried mixing in some infestors(4-5), I tired hydras, I just can't nail down the units I need
EDIT: looks liek this question has been answered a bit before me, but it does have phoenix
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EPT
