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jdelator
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States89 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 22:08:52
July 26 2011 22:05 GMT
#5861
On July 27 2011 07:01 ThreeStep wrote:
Hi guys
1st post here =)
I'm a silver player, attempting to open spanishiwa's gasless FE build as my main opening
I'm easily crushed by 2 tank 10-15 marine push at around 8.30+ minutes into the game
I realize the obvious solution is "macro better" but what sort of units should I aim for at 8.30 to survive such a push? spines simply get outranged, and if I move past the spines my lings die very very fast

How many lings do you have? 30-40 Should take it out if microed correctly. It helps to flank it as well.
ZeroTalent
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 22:27:38
July 26 2011 22:21 GMT
#5862
On July 27 2011 05:39 jdelator wrote:
With a 7:30 drop, theres not many buildings you can place. You can have a turret but it's easy to drop around it.

I'll keeping working on the f1 splitting.


I always do the anti-BFH building placement, and if you devote every building to BFH protection on most of the ladder maps, you can protect yourself from hellions pretty well by 7:00. You have to be *extremely* precise, to the point of knowing which buildings will get which addons, possibly building an expo in-base etc instead of at the natural, etc. The exceptions are Scrap Station (now removed) and Tald'arim. But I like that F1 trick, I might try it.

You want to make sure there are lots of semi-walls so that your infantry marines can get in and your scvs can get out in case they drop straight into the mineral line.

EDIT: I *know* there is a thread that talks about Terran Feng Shui to deal with hellions. But, I'm having trouble finding it :|.
Can we get an official definition of "all-in"? Please?
ThreeStep
Profile Joined July 2011
10 Posts
July 26 2011 22:21 GMT
#5863
alright, thanks, I wasn't sure if I should be doing something different or just better/faster =) didn't quite have enough lings at that point, poor macro on my part
Paper117
Profile Joined June 2010
United States210 Posts
July 26 2011 23:17 GMT
#5864
Hi, guys. Sorry, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for elsewhere.

A lot of people in the "Why FE in ZvZ" mention going 15 hatch, gas, pool. However, their exact timings differ. Is there a timing that is generally considered preferable or considered most practical (weighing economy and safety)? For example, is 15 hatch, 15 gas, 15 pool preferred over 15 hatch, 14 gas, 13 pool and the various permutations?

Also, are there any generally agreed upon timings for the 3rd Ovie and the queens? Do people usually pull gas at 100, or is that decision more of a reactionary one?
For the Swarm!
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
July 26 2011 23:51 GMT
#5865
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
July 26 2011 23:56 GMT
#5866
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
July 27 2011 00:24 GMT
#5867
On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.


Thanks Cecil!

Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2036 Posts
July 27 2011 00:31 GMT
#5868
On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.


Thanks Cecil!

Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?


Low plat this build is fine. It's one of the safest out there.

At higher levels, the trend is more to go for some kind of 3 gate contain into expo at the moment.
geiko.813 (EU)
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
July 27 2011 00:39 GMT
#5869
On July 27 2011 09:31 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:
On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.


Thanks Cecil!

Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?


Low plat this build is fine. It's one of the safest out there.

At higher levels, the trend is more to go for some kind of 3 gate contain into expo at the moment.


Cool thanks Geiko
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
July 27 2011 01:10 GMT
#5870
On July 27 2011 09:24 bankai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.


Thanks Cecil!

Oh really, too safe? I follow the build from a guide iamke wrote, and thought it was a solid build (perhaps not the most economical if Terran does FE though). As a low plat player, do you suggest I use a different build then?

It's actually a pretty good opening to learn to play with, since the observer forces you to see the Terran in-game, and the idea to play more reactive.
jdelator
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States89 Posts
July 27 2011 01:11 GMT
#5871
On July 27 2011 07:21 ZeroTalent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 05:39 jdelator wrote:
With a 7:30 drop, theres not many buildings you can place. You can have a turret but it's easy to drop around it.

I'll keeping working on the f1 splitting.


I always do the anti-BFH building placement, and if you devote every building to BFH protection on most of the ladder maps, you can protect yourself from hellions pretty well by 7:00. You have to be *extremely* precise, to the point of knowing which buildings will get which addons, possibly building an expo in-base etc instead of at the natural, etc. The exceptions are Scrap Station (now removed) and Tald'arim. But I like that F1 trick, I might try it.

You want to make sure there are lots of semi-walls so that your infantry marines can get in and your scvs can get out in case they drop straight into the mineral line.

EDIT: I *know* there is a thread that talks about Terran Feng Shui to deal with hellions. But, I'm having trouble finding it :|.

Something like this?

http://rallypointgabe.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/terran-feng-shui/
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 02:01:09
July 27 2011 02:00 GMT
#5872
On July 27 2011 08:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 08:51 bankai wrote:
In PvT, if I open 2 gate robo (the safest opening i hear):
1) What is the best response to defending early hellion drops (e.g. iEchoic 1/1/2 build)? I have faced it many times and always lose a lot of probes, even when I expect it and it keeps me stuck in my base. I simcity around my nexus to restrict access to probes, but those hellions still can zoom behind the mineral line and start splash damaging away
2) How do I respond to hellion/marine pushes (in my front) in early game?

That build has been deemed too safe. You'll fall behind if the Terran does an FE, and you can't kill or punish them.

Best is to see it coming before it lands, and have stalkers ready. Early game hellion/marine pushes should die to just Stalkers/Guardian shield.


Cecil have you ever played RuFF? He's been doing a lot of 1 base hellion/marine strats recently and they've caught me off guard several times. Like he'll open hellion and I defend find against that, but I end up overmaking stalkers in order to successfully defend, then he comes with a BF hellion/stimmed marine/medivac/raven all-in that's extremely hard to stop since you've made so many stalkers.
djense
Profile Joined June 2011
3 Posts
July 27 2011 02:54 GMT
#5873
As Protoss, I always seem to have trouble deciding when to fit in my forge. When (supply or time) should you place your forge if you are doing say a 2 gate robo? What rules of thumb do you use about when to place it because it usually means you are cutting units and it costs a decent amount of minerals in the early game. Does the timing differ between the opponent race?

Catchafire2000
Profile Joined August 2010
United States227 Posts
July 27 2011 03:10 GMT
#5874
PvP zealot rush is completely shutting down my 4 gate... grrrr.... wtf do i do?
jabooty
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
July 27 2011 03:58 GMT
#5875
what's the solution to this protoss comp ZvP?

[image loading]
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Insanest
Profile Joined June 2011
United States21 Posts
July 27 2011 04:00 GMT
#5876
In a TvT, what is more advisable to do for mech and air upgrades: attack or armor? I know that I (and presumably everyone else) always go attack but it seems like armor is more fitting to take away all of the marine dps and mech and air attack cooldowns (except for maybe the battlecruiser) are not as quick as the marines. Any thoughts?
Ksquared
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1748 Posts
July 27 2011 04:11 GMT
#5877
In TvT if you have air dominance when is a good time to start making battlecruisers?
eSports for life.
HelloxD
Profile Joined May 2011
378 Posts
July 27 2011 04:12 GMT
#5878
On July 27 2011 12:58 michaelhasanalias wrote:
what's the solution to this protoss comp ZvP?

[image loading]


brood lords infestors and roach hydra
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
July 27 2011 04:29 GMT
#5879
On July 27 2011 12:10 Catchafire2000 wrote:
PvP zealot rush is completely shutting down my 4 gate... grrrr.... wtf do i do?


Scout it out, it's very difficult to deny scouting with just a zealot and early in the game he will not have many pylons unless he's proxying it, you can respond by walling your ramp like in PvZ or throwing down your own 2nd gateway. Note that the timing itself is important, if he cut probes to do double 10 gate, that's more severe than just getting a gateway instead of a cybernetics core, just check his gateway timing compared to your own.
Kezzer
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1268 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 04:34:09
July 27 2011 04:33 GMT
#5880
What is an effective zerg army composition against a balanced 200/200 protoss colossus stalker zealot deathball? Mass roach isn't working for me, I tried mixing in some infestors(4-5), I tired hydras, I just can't nail down the units I need

EDIT: looks liek this question has been answered a bit before me, but it does have phoenix
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