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On July 25 2011 23:23 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 17:35 .Amon. wrote:
PvZ you should go for standard Collossus/Stalker/Zealot and a few Sentries until the Zerg has about 8 Corruptors. At that point you should switch into an Immortal HT Zealot combination with some archons to tank. Remember that Blink is almost always viable depending on how good you can multitask and micro. Yea that was standard... like half a year ago. Zealots suck, and late game you'll want void rays (especially when corruptor numbers get large and brood lords come into play). While stalkers/sentry/immortal/HT/archon is great, it's a much more difficult composition to use than colossus/stalker/sentry. I'd stick with just colossus play especially if your opponent doesn't get infestors, add in void rays later and you'll have an unkillable deathball.
The Void Ray/Colossus deathball hasn't been used since the Infestor buff... what are you talking about?
Seems like the most common thing right now is mass, mass blink stalkers with sentry/archon/storm support (usually includes zealots when your gas broke after adding some templar)
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On July 26 2011 08:22 Fist wrote:
Has anyone ever experiment with not chronoboosting the probes at 11 and 13, but instead chrono a bit later and get gateway earlier? This will result in earlier warpgate.
Yep, you can also do the same thing with a FFE. You chrono a little later and get a blind 12 forge.
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On July 26 2011 08:22 Fist wrote:
Has anyone ever experiment with not chronoboosting the probes at 11 and 13, but instead chrono a bit later and get gateway earlier? This will result in earlier warpgate.
In other match ups, you want those probes out asap which is why you would want to spend your chrono boost as soon as possible rather than delaying them.
The difference between having 10 or 12 probes, compared to the difference of having 20 or 22 probes is not the same. Since we are not talking about cutting probe production, the difference made by cutting chrono boost is very minimal.
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On July 26 2011 08:41 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 08:22 Fist wrote:
Has anyone ever experiment with not chronoboosting the probes at 11 and 13, but instead chrono a bit later and get gateway earlier? This will result in earlier warpgate. Yep, you can also do the same thing with a FFE. You chrono a little later and get a blind 12 forge.
??
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On July 25 2011 16:00 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 12:56 bankai wrote:In PvP, I use the korean 3 stalker robo build and have 2 questions: 1) When I see the enemy probe putting a pylon down to ready a 4gate push, do I use my stalkers to attack the probe or destroy the proxy pylon? 2) I got beaten by someone on taldarem altar where I used this build, and he went 13 gate 17 gate, then CB'ed mass zealots and attacked my probe line. Although I could kite them with my zealots, I ran my probes away from his zealots, but eventually I lost so much mining time and my stalkers take awhile to kill the zealots (there was like 6 of them at least) that he just outmacroed me. What should I do to respond to this? Forge and cannon defense to stop him then tech up?? Sorry no replay saved so just asking this question in a typical situation  1) Obviously the probe, the probe can make more proxy pylons and it only takes 4 shots to kill it. Don't chase after it too far though. 2) Can't say for sure without replay, but it sounds like your micro is what's failing you.
Cool - thx 4 the advice.
Sorry, my poorly worded question. If I can rephrase Q2, if you are going 3 stalker robo, what should your reaction be to an opponent that:
1) Goes double gateway (e.g. 13 gate 15 gate) and chronos zealots?
2) Cannon rushes
3) Goes double gas implying a tech build (e.g. you scout them going 14 gas 18 gas)
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On July 26 2011 08:40 sjschmidt93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 23:23 Anihc wrote:On July 25 2011 17:35 .Amon. wrote:
PvZ you should go for standard Collossus/Stalker/Zealot and a few Sentries until the Zerg has about 8 Corruptors. At that point you should switch into an Immortal HT Zealot combination with some archons to tank. Remember that Blink is almost always viable depending on how good you can multitask and micro. Yea that was standard... like half a year ago. Zealots suck, and late game you'll want void rays (especially when corruptor numbers get large and brood lords come into play). While stalkers/sentry/immortal/HT/archon is great, it's a much more difficult composition to use than colossus/stalker/sentry. I'd stick with just colossus play especially if your opponent doesn't get infestors, add in void rays later and you'll have an unkillable deathball. The Void Ray/Colossus deathball hasn't been used since the Infestor buff... what are you talking about? Seems like the most common thing right now is mass, mass blink stalkers with sentry/archon/storm support (usually includes zealots when your gas broke after adding some templar)
Also want to know - if you go for the Colossus/Stalker/Sentry (not sure about having zealots since they are useless with FF play??), then when zerg has infestors, what should you transition to?? Add HTs to your CSS ball?
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On July 26 2011 08:40 sjschmidt93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 23:23 Anihc wrote:On July 25 2011 17:35 .Amon. wrote:
PvZ you should go for standard Collossus/Stalker/Zealot and a few Sentries until the Zerg has about 8 Corruptors. At that point you should switch into an Immortal HT Zealot combination with some archons to tank. Remember that Blink is almost always viable depending on how good you can multitask and micro. Yea that was standard... like half a year ago. Zealots suck, and late game you'll want void rays (especially when corruptor numbers get large and brood lords come into play). While stalkers/sentry/immortal/HT/archon is great, it's a much more difficult composition to use than colossus/stalker/sentry. I'd stick with just colossus play especially if your opponent doesn't get infestors, add in void rays later and you'll have an unkillable deathball. The Void Ray/Colossus deathball hasn't been used since the Infestor buff... what are you talking about? Seems like the most common thing right now is mass, mass blink stalkers with sentry/archon/storm support (usually includes zealots when your gas broke after adding some templar)
1. Original question mentioned a roach/hydra/bl/corruptor composition. No infestors.
2. I still use colossus/void ray, and I do quite fine even against infestors. I'll admit though that compositions with HT/archon is better for battling infestors. But...
3. Colossus/void ray is much much easier to use than stalker/HT in any scenario.
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On July 26 2011 10:00 bankai wrote:
Sorry, my poorly worded question. If I can rephrase Q2, if you are going 3 stalker robo, what should your reaction be to an opponent that:
1) Goes double gateway (e.g. 13 gate 15 gate) and chronos zealots?
2) Cannon rushes
3) Goes double gas implying a tech build (e.g. you scout them going 14 gas 18 gas)
lol that's not a rephrase of Q2, that's 3 entirely different questions and not simple either :p (well.. ok 2 new questions and a generalization of your original question).
Again these aren't simple questions but I'll comment on them briefly.
1) If it's some sort of proxy, add your own 2nd gate and just match their zealot production while being slightly ahead on econ/tech. You can add a forge/cannon if necessary but it shouldn't be since 13/15 gate is kinda late. If it's not a proxy, then it sounds like the "adelscott pvp" build which is outdated and doesn't work if you have ok-ish micro with stalkers against zealots. Just spend extra chronos on stalkers instead of warpgate tech and you should be fine.
2) Really really depends on what kind of cannon rush and how late you scout it. Using probes, walling off, chronoing stalker asap, and getting your own forge/cannon are all valid responses depending on the situation.
3) Ok this is like a general question "how to play pvp." Can't answer it here.
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Guys, i have one question.
Obs: I play on Bronze League
I play Zerg, how could i make a successful attack against a Protoss who makes like 60 cannons in just a base ?
Thanks for who answer ^___^
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On July 26 2011 08:40 sjschmidt93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 23:23 Anihc wrote:On July 25 2011 17:35 .Amon. wrote:
PvZ you should go for standard Collossus/Stalker/Zealot and a few Sentries until the Zerg has about 8 Corruptors. At that point you should switch into an Immortal HT Zealot combination with some archons to tank. Remember that Blink is almost always viable depending on how good you can multitask and micro. Yea that was standard... like half a year ago. Zealots suck, and late game you'll want void rays (especially when corruptor numbers get large and brood lords come into play). While stalkers/sentry/immortal/HT/archon is great, it's a much more difficult composition to use than colossus/stalker/sentry. I'd stick with just colossus play especially if your opponent doesn't get infestors, add in void rays later and you'll have an unkillable deathball. The Void Ray/Colossus deathball hasn't been used since the Infestor buff... what are you talking about? Seems like the most common thing right now is mass, mass blink stalkers with sentry/archon/storm support (usually includes zealots when your gas broke after adding some templar)
It wasn't so much the infestor buff that caused the VR/colossus to become less common, it more had to do with zergs figuring out that if my opponent went for a robo immediately after stargate, then they will only be able to make colossus and void rays so if I can bypass the cannons (drops, nydus, etc.) then my opponent is super vulnerable. Colossus void is still a strong composition, it is just extremely difficult to find a time to begin/continue void ray production without being extremely vulnerable, as they don't really do that much in direct battles without large numbers.
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On July 26 2011 10:13 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:00 bankai wrote:
Sorry, my poorly worded question. If I can rephrase Q2, if you are going 3 stalker robo, what should your reaction be to an opponent that:
1) Goes double gateway (e.g. 13 gate 15 gate) and chronos zealots?
2) Cannon rushes
3) Goes double gas implying a tech build (e.g. you scout them going 14 gas 18 gas) lol that's not a rephrase of Q2, that's 3 entirely different questions and not simple either :p (well.. ok 2 new questions and a generalization of your original question). Again these aren't simple questions but I'll comment on them briefly. 1) If it's some sort of proxy, add your own 2nd gate and just match their zealot production while being slightly ahead on econ/tech. You can add a forge/cannon if necessary but it shouldn't be since 13/15 gate is kinda late. If it's not a proxy, then it sounds like the "adelscott pvp" build which is outdated and doesn't work if you have ok-ish micro with stalkers against zealots. Just spend extra chronos on stalkers instead of warpgate tech and you should be fine. 2) Really really depends on what kind of cannon rush and how late you scout it. Using probes, walling off, chronoing stalker asap, and getting your own forge/cannon are all valid responses depending on the situation. 3) Ok this is like a general question "how to play pvp." Can't answer it here.
haha despite my generalisation and extra questions that probably broke the rules of this thread, thanks for your help
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On July 26 2011 10:28 PKEGH wrote:
Guys, i have one question.
Obs: I play on Bronze League
I play Zerg, how could i make a successful attack against a Protoss who makes like 60 cannons in just a base ?
Thanks for who answer ^___^
You don't. This is a scenario where your opponent cannot attack you, so you are safe to expand and gain an economic lead. Though that many is a bit ridiculous, brood lords out-range cannons so if your opponent has only cannons then go for those.
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In PvZ I like to open 1gate expo into Stargate, and I have a void out by 8:00. I've run into trouble with people who 2 base rush mutas though. How should I change my scouting (I usually just send one probe till lings out then it dies; then voids around 8:30-9 to his base depending on how many ovies i run into) to see this coming better, and how should I react? I feel like once he has a huge flock of mutas around 11.30-12 there just isn't much I can do. Any help would be great!
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On July 26 2011 10:48 See.Blue wrote:
In PvZ I like to open 1gate expo into Stargate, and I have a void out by 8:00. I've run into trouble with people who 2 base rush mutas though. How should I change my scouting (I usually just send one probe till lings out then it dies; then voids around 8:30-9 to his base depending on how many ovies i run into) to see this coming better, and how should I react? I feel like once he has a huge flock of mutas around 11.30-12 there just isn't much I can do. Any help would be great!
I think I need a replay to properly answer your question.
What do you do after your first void? Do you halt all Stargate production, keep producing voids, or switch to phoenixes?
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On July 26 2011 10:48 See.Blue wrote:
In PvZ I like to open 1gate expo into Stargate, and I have a void out by 8:00. I've run into trouble with people who 2 base rush mutas though. How should I change my scouting (I usually just send one probe till lings out then it dies; then voids around 8:30-9 to his base depending on how many ovies i run into) to see this coming better, and how should I react? I feel like once he has a huge flock of mutas around 11.30-12 there just isn't much I can do. Any help would be great!
With your 1 gate if you can get out a stalker and send it fast enough, aka before speed, you can get a good read on his gas and lair timings and some free ling kills by microing the stalker.
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Why do people build a Zealot out of their gateway first in PvP or PvT? I always skip it as and go straight to Stalker once the core is finished, I find minerals in the early game incredibly tight and I can't afford a hundred minerals away from a pylon, two probes or gas etc.
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How long was the SEA server down to update to Season 3?
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On July 26 2011 18:49 Xaeldaren wrote:
Why do people build a Zealot out of their gateway first in PvP or PvT? I always skip it as and go straight to Stalker once the core is finished, I find minerals in the early game incredibly tight and I can't afford a hundred minerals away from a pylon, two probes or gas etc.
You shouldn' be thinking in terms of individual units, but in terms of build order. Basically, your BO wants to meet certain requirements which can be expressed like this :
-maximize economy / tech
-don't lose to early pressure
In pvp, most build orders have a zealot first because of the need to survive 4 gate later on (you can't afford having a gateway not producing stuff) and also because it is safer vs 2 gate pressure or 2 gate proxy. However some builds have found a way to save money on that zealot to get extra stalkers out (3 stalker rush build), but that decision comes from analyzing the BO as a whole.
In pvt, the same logic applies. Zealot first will allow you to do a Zealot + Stalker + probe poke at approx. 5:00. It will also make your build more safe vs small barracks pushes (2 marauder + 1 marine + 3 scv for example). However there are a ton of stalker first openings that are viable, as long as you know what you are doing.
TL, DR;
As long as you are sure your build is safe, or are willing to take some risks, you can cut as many units as you want to boost your economy.
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On July 26 2011 18:49 Xaeldaren wrote:
Why do people build a Zealot out of their gateway first in PvP or PvT? I always skip it as and go straight to Stalker once the core is finished, I find minerals in the early game incredibly tight and I can't afford a hundred minerals away from a pylon, two probes or gas etc.
Well in PvT, I like opening Zealot -> Sentry -> Stalker. The light mineral cost of the Sentry allows me to get my 3rd pylon before supply blocking myself.
I used to open Zealot -> Stalker -> Sentry, but I always had to throw down my 3rd pylon IMMEDIATELY ASAP !@#!@%#@%#$^ and still get supply blocked by half a second or less. With mineral stacking in the early game (which I don't do), you could probably overcome this.
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EPT
