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The Zerg Macro Hatch - Page 2

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Adeeler United Kingdom764 Posts January 22 2011 18:07 GMT #21 The cost of 350minerals and 1 larva to give you a stockpile of larva to tech switch easily and replenish easily is very worth it. I find that 3rd hatch can usually be put at an expansion rather then being inbase but it barely hurts to put one down in mid-game as there is usually a massive mineral surplus.

KissKiss United Kingdom136 Posts January 22 2011 18:16 GMT #22 I find that I need a macro hatch when I take a gold. Them minerals go crazy. And ofc, if you hit 200/200 food then what else do you spend minerals on? 1base 2 hatch in ZvZ can be nice. You can outproduce a 1 hatch player but still have the benefits of ramp defence. I think if you do the numbers then 2 bases + 2 queens and perfectly timed injects will pretty much spend all your money. Trouble is not even the pros are flawless, and if you are late with some injects the money can begin to climb. At that point its better to bite the bullet and add a 3rd hatch even if its not completely optimal. Its nice to have a bit of a cushion in Larvae anyway, especially in lategame when it becomes more difficult to be on time with inject.

zylog Canada943 Posts January 22 2011 18:57 GMT #23 Another benefit is that your units are more together when they spawn. I used to have trouble holding off late game allin pushes against terran and protoss because after the first big encounter, my reinforcements would be streaming in from all my different expansions at different times, with some of them getting picked off before i can get them organized. With a macro hatch, more of the larvae is coming from the same area, so im generally much more organized creating my second wave of units. In these situation I'm usually quite rich anyhow, and can afford an extra hatch or two. Also, the cost of overlord is generally not a factor at this point.

koveras 163 Posts January 22 2011 18:58 GMT #24 A macro hatch on 2 base without taking your third is a sign of weakness.

flanksteak Canada246 Posts January 22 2011 19:13 GMT #25 Like everyone's mentioned, if you're going 2 base muta an extra in-base hatch is necessary since you'll definitely have left over minerals, and zerglings are larvae expensive. Even if not going mutas, it makes the game more forgiving.

Torte de Lini Germany38463 Posts January 22 2011 19:38 GMT #26 Because unlike the other races, Zerg has no structures to produce larvae. It's just a good thing to have when you've stockpiled minerals and/or you're unit count is a bit below what you want.

FortuneSyn 1826 Posts January 22 2011 19:43 GMT #27 for roach/ling midgame its extremely awesome. also, you can produce more units at 1 time when he moves out allowing you to saturate a fourth for example way more aggressively

Cyanocyst 2222 Posts January 22 2011 19:51 GMT #28 Technically if you have perfect macro, a macro hatch really wouldn't be all that beneficial. However late game when Zerg game play gets pretty chaotic while trying to break your opponent and manage your tech, while keeping ahead in expansions, some times you may forget an inject or be late to inject. And extra hatch will allow you to drain that extra energy on your queen. So it makes missing an inject not as detrimental to your production as it would normally be. You ask if your spending your money what do you need a macro hatch for? Well, typically the cheaper the unit the more larvae are needed to support its production. For instance if your keeping up with your injects your Mutalisk production would almost never be held back by lack of larvae, more likely not enough Gas. Where as if you making a lot of zerglings, with just queens and your normal base hatches its going to be hard to spend your money, due to you don't have enough larvae to keep your money low, just making lings. Depending on your strategy during the game, you may want to consider getting your macro hatch earlier if you are to be making lots of low tier cheap units.

sixzeros 72 Posts January 22 2011 19:52 GMT #29 Not sure if anyone mentioned this.. but one reason for more larvae is that it saves overlords, when you dilute your forces and trade them in battle those extra larvae turn into instant extra units, they allow you an instant rebound ability without having to buy extra lords. You can therefore be quite aggressive below 80 control. Having 1 queen assigned to 2 hatches also allows a full utilization of her energy as you can quickly dual inject.

jakek95 United Kingdom351 Posts January 22 2011 20:11 GMT #30 Btw 1 spine crawler is 1 larva because of the 1 drone.. Just thought id mention that

Unveiler 34 Posts January 23 2011 00:13 GMT #31 Queen energy = 110.... sigh, get macro hatch. I think of it largely as a crutch for less than ideal macro play.

Twaxter Canada190 Posts January 23 2011 03:58 GMT #32 the extra hatch really really helps you for muta ling builds, and any build with mass ling. Its kind of a safe guard hatch, which you can reinforce off fast. When I go heavy roach I don't go extra hatch as I will not need the extra larva, as I can't spend it as fast. Though, when you hit 3-4 bases, and extra is always helpful when you need to reinforce.

MrNasty 7 Posts January 23 2011 04:13 GMT #33 its for dealing with deathballs... . for toss deathball coming, i send bunch of overlords with my army for creep, corrupters on colossus, if i can kill all his colossus before my army all dies i pull back pump out all my larva in whatever counters what he has left, and then its right back at him for attack, for terran, normally zergling/bling, mutas, and some roach and micro bling to bio ball, roaches and lings just A move, and mutas can focus stuff easy... if you dont have the larva to reinforce your army after the 200/200 battle your not gonna win.. EDIT:iof you keep injecting with your queens, u can stockpile larva and instantly make a new army and be ready to attack after the initial deathball battle... where as toss has to wait for a unit cooldown from warpgates and build time from stargates and robo, same with terran, tanks take time to make and if you have three factorys making tanks, thats three tanks every x seconds.. vs your 6 hatcherys with 15 larva each on them. that can easly morph in roach,lings,hydras, and mutas, faster than he can get any tanks or thors, or a big bio ball back

Devastate United States25 Posts January 23 2011 04:16 GMT #34 In-base Hatch is good because: a) Missing injects is quite unforgiving, the macro Hatch pays for itself making up for the larva you lost missing injects (it happens to us mere mortals, we arent all Idra or Machine) b) Replenishing our troops quickly, as Zerg units aren't nearly as supply effective as the rest of the races. We don't win by going toe-to-toe with Terran or Toss in a 200/200 fight: we consume them with wave after wave of engagements.

Silmakuoppaanikinko 799 Posts January 23 2011 04:34 GMT #35 Do you need it? Nope, but do you technically need more than one phoenix to take out 50 mutalisks? nope. At later game, for 300 minerals and one drone, even if your money is being kept low all the time, I'd get one just to be sure. You never know what's going to happen, your macro might slip for a moment. You might need a fast transition into mass speedlings and what-else. I see a lot of people here say things like 'expect the best from your opponent', and a lot of times the things they suggest like not queuing, microing, doing a lot of drops, forcefielding, also more or less assume that they themselves will not screw up. I prefer to estimate my chances more realistically, even in masters, you will make mistakes, and so will your opponent, so assume you are going to make mistakes I would say, build a nice margin of error, and get that macro hatch. You may not need it, but if you never needed it, that's only 300 minerals and one drone, and zerg generally has no problems with getting minerals. If you do end up needing it, better safe than sorry. I might need only 8 gateways to warp in correctly from 3 bases, but I know I'm bound to miss some cool-downs, so I take 10.

Ziggitz United States340 Posts January 23 2011 04:49 GMT #36 It's very simple, 3 hatches on two bass allow you to max out on roaches really quickly in a zvz, otr against a terran do a strong ling bling muta build since lings go through your larva so quickly.

Juddas 768 Posts January 23 2011 05:00 GMT #37 one coined phrase 300 food push

Subversion South Africa3627 Posts January 23 2011 05:09 GMT #38 It can be good if you're not able to take a 3rd as early as you'd like.

eth3n 718 Posts January 23 2011 05:57 GMT #39 If you are good enough never to float 300 minerals in a macro game, then you prolly don't need to worry about macro hatches. Otherwise, its prolly a good idea to use that surplus to get extra larvae, I can't remember the last time I had too much larvae.

faust_ix Singapore15 Posts January 23 2011 07:11 GMT #40 I believe the macro hatch always has a place because if the game goes into late game it is a source of larvae for rebuilding your army, however even in mid game having the extra larvae to reinforce/insta saturate expansions is extremely useful. Inbase hatch is also less risky then an expansion.

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